farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 02:56 pm
@Terry,
not all cracks have slippage or movement at all. Joints and cleavage are teeny cracks that dont show any appreciable movement. They are like tension cracks in modelling clay, ares elf healing but do provide paths of preferred "bustage". Joints that are most famous are the columnar ones of The Devils Tower or sheet joints in sandstones and limestones.When these joints are present in large amounts they impart a preffered crack structure onto rocks that everyone calls "cleavage" .All these are helpful in determining which way forces have acted and which way fluids would have moved .

Yeh the MArcellus is present past the Appalachian front and is present from near surface (part of the rock group called the Hamilton Shale group and the Mahantango) there are subunits of which the Marcellus is but one. There are publications from the PA Geological Survey about the Marine Devonian (maps, reports etc). The PA Survey is in Middletown PA , with an oil and gas office near Pittsburgh. These reports are available for purchase, and sometimes they are even free.

I beleive that the going rate for Pa gas exploration leasing is about 2500 $ an acre. In louisiana and TExas its much higher (12 K an acre) because theyve already found gas there . If your friend has a lot of land its best to get some advice re: what payments would be realized if gas is struck in marketable amounts. Otherwise, it may be submarketeable but enough to serve a housing compound or farm.

Stereo nets are a tool for visualizing and computer plotting forces acting on folded and fractured rocks. ANy good field structural geology book or geo field manual has information about them, if you are interested I can get you some good intro urls on plotting and using stereo nets. (called Wulf and SChmidt nets)
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 09:28 am
@farmerman,
Well, the drilling has just as quickly shut down with no new leaseholds being acted on. This is troublesome because , when the price of oil rebounds (And IT WILL) we will be behind in the cycling for new gas finds
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2009 11:50 am
I can't believe the short sightedness of some industries:
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2009 11:56 am
I can never understand why long range planning is not practiced in so many vital endeavers.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2009 12:23 pm
@edgarblythe,
actually its the resolve of investor and they are a remarkeably conservative lot. When we drill, its always with other peoples money.
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2009 09:07 pm
free market economics is having a rough time at the mo, due to the bank debacle: I think central plannning on energy might be advisable: prehaps Sarah Palin was right.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2009 09:18 pm
nothing good comes of 300% swings in energy prices over a 365 day span, it is impossible to consider long term investments of capital.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 11:15 pm
@farmerman,
I understand sheet joints in sedimentary rocks and cleavage in crystals, but still can't quite see why cracks would be so straight in limestone. Tension cracks in Plasticine (I don't have any clay) aren't like the ones in the stream bed, but maybe it's a matter of scale.

I looked up pictures of the Devil's Tower, which reminded me of a picture I saw recently of the Giant's Causeway in Ireland. When I looked for it I found reference to an experiment that had been done using cornstarch and water in a glass dish to model crack propagation in cooling lava. Of course I had to try it and never realized that cornstarch has such amazing properties!

My friend only got $500 for leasing her gas rights, and it doesn't look like she'll get royalties any time soon with the price of gas so low.

I would appreciate the urls on stereo nets. Sorry I haven't been back here in a while.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 12:22 am
@Terry,
The AGI "GEosciences HAndbook (4th ed) is a good intro handbook for anything field related. I carry one for a quick reference for stuff I should know but quickly forget. (sines, net plot rules,conversions, GPS use, etc).
Also, the U of Wisconsin Green Bay has a good page for structural geology. It includes a section on Stereonets and plotting structural features and contouring etc. The plotting is all done with assist programs so any PC can become a powerful analytical tool for regional rock fabric and tectonics. Heres the site, enjoy

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/structge/labman.htm

The market has recently crashed but it will become more active by April or so. I understand that theyre doing some hard negotiating for gas rights. For 500$, Id just as soon sit on em and , if they hit gas nearby, your friend would be in a catbird seat. If they dont, she lost 500$.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 12:38 am
@farmerman,
PS, many minerals impart a crystal cleavage on the sedimentary rock they make up. Limestone takes a ctrong crystal cleavage from its minerals (calcite and dolomite), Salt beds will develop cubic cleavage and gypsum develops a tabular cleavage. In large deposits of limestone the common leavage is for 3 sides to meet at angles around 30 to 60 degerees. The stereonet plots show these patterns of cleavage wrt the bedding planes (plotted as a separate stat symbol on the same nets.
Stereonets are a good way to understand regional rock patterns and lineations, cleavage, foliation etc. I use this tool a lot to get mining geology students to think in 4 dimensions, and make this tool second nature when theyre out in the field..
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 07:16 am
@farmerman,
An insert that reports on the drilling progream that is going on in Pa. There has been a massive gas find in the deep Devonian Marine rocks of the Mahantango Group. (Specifically the MArcellus Shale). This drilling , using some new techniques of slant and directional drilling and fracturing the country rock by high pressure water. HAs ld to a massive discovery that rivals anything ever found on earth. (Thias technique is being looked at all over the planet now and e could be in for a GAS ewconomy in short years.
The only problem is that aome of the dreilling has resulted in contamination of shallow water supplies. Pa has one of the toughest environmental codes in the US and yet, theyve missewd the connections of the deep formations with shallower ones. The shallow qells that are being contaminated are being affected by metals migrating upward in salt waters and a lot of methane that is finding its way into house ells. This methane has caused several houes to actually blow up (not a good PR for the drilling industry whose geologists and engineers arent (due to a GOP fast one in the legislature) even required to be licensed in the state like anyone else.

PA has acxcomodated the drilling in a fashion taht is quite reasonable BUT, as part of my theses previously. When an industry is in charge, without suitable oversite by government, they sure wont "Very HappyO THE RIGHT THING ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE"

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 09:54 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
they sure wont "DO THE RIGHT THING ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE"


That's an odd thing to say for a capitalist. They are only engaging in the difficult and dirty work to do the right thing for the people in bringing them plentiful and cheap fuel so that the frenetic activity can remain on an ever increasing curve. Surely?

What would the people do if they put a Gone Fishin' sign upon their door?

I can't see that "a few" houses blowing up causing any inhibition.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 10:09 am
@spendius,
Quote:
I can't see that "a few" houses blowing up causing any inhibition
When you extract your head from up your asshole, lemme know spendi.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 10:13 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
I can't see that "a few" houses blowing up causing any inhibition
When you extract your head from up your asshole, lemme know spendi.

Maybe he's cold and he forgot his wool cap? Did you think about Spendi's feelings?! Hmmm??? Razz
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 10:19 am
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
Did you think about Spendi's feelings?! Hmmm??? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Wink
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 03:23 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsar-- fm says things like that when he's stumped. Don't allow his seeming concern over a few houses blowing up to confuse you. He knows very well that a few houses blowing up is not going to even slow down the acceleration of the search and delivery of cheap primary fuels.

I remember reading in Moby Dick of Ishmael saying a prayer to beseech the ladies in the fine houses to turn their wicks down in order to reduce the demand for whale oil and hence the need for men to do the work to satisfy it. It fell on deaf ears. Hence the tragic ending.

If the houses being blown up were in Nigeria he wouldn't give a ****. Which means he's a racist as well as being a bleeding-heart liberal at those times when he allows the thought of human suffering to become uppermost in his mind. Times of public pronouncements are probably most propitious for that effect.



farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 04:10 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
a few houses blowing up is not going to even slow down the acceleration of the search and delivery of cheap primary fuels.
How much do you wish to lose on a bet on that dumass statement?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 10:00 am
@farmerman,
well, the entire drilling program has been shut down in Pa. The series of explosions and water and brine "blowbacks" have gotten the attention of the STate (especially in light of the little event going on in the gulf of Mexico)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 11:22 am
@farmerman,
That's odd. I thought it was BP's specific laxity that caused the problem. Is Pa admitting it's more deep seated?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 07:07 pm
@farmerman,
HERES AN OOOOPS , just a few days after they resumed drilling after a several week ban



Quote:
Cattle from Tioga County Farm Quarantined after Coming in Contact with Natural Gas Drilling Wastewater





HARRISBURG -- The Department of Agriculture announced today that it has quarantined cattle from a Tioga County farm after a number of cows came into contact with drilling wastewater from a nearby natural gas operation.

Agriculture Secretary Russell Redding said uncertainty over the quantity of wastewater the cattle may have consumed warranted the quarantine in order to protect the public from eating potentially contaminated beef.

“Cattle are drawn to the taste of salty water,” said Redding. “Drilling wastewater has high salinity levels, but it also contains dangerous chemicals and metals. We took this precaution in order to protect the public from consuming any of this potentially contaminated product should it be marketed for human consumption.”

Redding said 28 head of cattle were included in the quarantine, including 16 cows, four heifers and eight calves. Those cattle were out to pasture in late April and early May when a drilling wastewater holding pond on the farm of Don and Carol Johnson leaked, sending the contaminated water into an adjacent field where it created a pool. The Johnsons had noticed some seepage from the pond for as long as two months prior to the leak.

The holding pond was collecting flowback water from the hydraulic fracturing process on a well being drilled by East Resources Inc.

Grass was killed in a roughly 30- x 40-foot area where the wastewater had pooled. Although no cows were seen drinking the wastewater, tracks were found throughout the pool. The wet area extended about 200-300 feet into the pasture.

The cattle had potential access to the pool for a minimum of three days until the gas company placed a snow fence around the pool to restrict access.

Subsequent tests of the wastewater found that it contained chloride, iron, sulfate, barium, magnesium, manganese, potassium, sodium, strontium and calcium.

Redding said the main element of concern is the heavy metal strontium, which can be toxic to humans, especially in growing children. The metal takes a long time to pass through an animal’s system because it is preferentially deposited in bone and released in the body at varying rates, dependent on age, growth status and other factors. Live animal testing was not possible because tissue sampling is required.

The secretary also added that the quarantine will follow the recommended guidelines from the Food Animal Residue Avoidance and Depletion Program, as follows:
• Adult animals: hold from food chain for 6 months.
• Calves exposed in utero: hold from food chain for 8 months.
• Growing calves: hold from food chain for 2 years.

In response to the leak, the Department of Environmental Protection issued a notice of violation to East Resources Inc. and required further sampling and site remediation. DEP is evaluating the final cleanup report and is continuing its investigation of operations at the drilling site, as well as the circumstances surrounding the leaking holding pond.




 

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