Witnesses for UFO Congressional hearing

Except that CodeBorg still wants evidence.

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Well, OK, but what does it mean to want to believe in something? I have a problem with this notion, but maybe it's just me. Too much the rationalist...

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Personally, i don't believe in rationality. Give me a full serving, or nothin' at all . . .

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In that case
[quote="joefromchicago
Oh, and those 30,000 cattle mutilations -- approximately 1200 were my fault. And for that I am truly sorry.[/quote]

Dont take this wrong, but maybe you should try the salad bar!

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Astronauts James Lovell and Frank Borman
Lovell: BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH.

Capcom: This is Houston. Say again 7.

Lovell: SAID WE HAVE A BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH.

Capcom: Gemini 7, is that the booster or is that an actual sighting?

Lovell: WE HAVE SEVERAL...ACTUAL SIGHTINGS.

Capcom: ...Estimated distance or size?

Lovell: WE ALSO HAVE THE BOOSTER IN SIGHT...

http://www.anomalous-images.com/astroufo.html

http://www.ufocasebook.com/Video/friedman.ra

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D'artagnan -- I want to believe in UFOs (in the ET sense) because they would be a very interesting topic to understand along with science, nature, economics, psychology, etc. The world is a pretty interesting place.

In some ways, ETs would be nice because we could steal ideas from them and (ab)use them to our advantage too. But I think our natural evolution would be just fine without them, and they may be better off without us (if they exist).

I guess what I really want is an IFO. Something we can and have identified as ET. Enough with the random scattered hints of ET already, and let's have the actual substance to study! So I'm looking for the most persuasive case for the existence of ETs. If people can stop hailing thousands of sketchy cases that dilute UFO credibility and focus on the most robust, convincing ones then maybe I could get into it.

Too much promotion and eager sensationalism just turns me off. Let's stop the hype and innuendo, and analyze the actual evidence with full rigor and testing. Can UFOlogists do that? What are the most convincing cases? If they are conclusive, what can we learn from them and how does the information change our lives, if at all?

I have several unidentified sightings every time I walk through the woods. The difference is that I can get my plant book out, or just examine the item and learn what it is. Plants are cool that way, but until we have something substantial and informative about them, UFOs are just frustrating. Still looking for one solid case.

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Jung on UFOs
Here is a different view on the topic.

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As I showed before, it's a statistical certainty that extraterrestrial life exists. Secondly, our solar system is a relatively young system - millions of other systems in our stellar surroundings are millions of years older. Even if the emergence of life and its evolution towards the use of space technology is highly improbable, there should still be a large number of spacefaring civilisations out there just like us, and more advanced than us.

Following this rationale, it seems unavoidable that our planet has been discovered by those advanced civilisations.

Check it out. No fringe stuff here.
Extraterrestrial Life.net

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If they have discovered us, it is not that likely they are any smarter than us. They will not be able to get here, any more than we are able to get there.

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Come on, you're not that conservative, Ed.

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And how do you statistically describe an event that has not happened?

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Your phrase knots itself up, Roger. Statistical science doesn't describe but calculates.

On request:

Quote:

Let's take the estimate of the number of stars with planets as 0.5. And that 1/9 of those planets is in a habitable zone. Let us further assume that the probability of life occurring on any single planet that is already within its star's habitable zone is extremely, extremely remote: one in a trillion. By multiplication of this extremely small number by the previous factors of 0.5 and 1/9, we get the assumption that the probability of life around any one given star is 0.00000000000005. Our galaxy has about 300 billion stars, and let's assume there are 100 billion galaxies in the universe. This gives us a statistical probability of the existence of life around at least one other star in the universe=1-(0.99999999999995)^30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. The answer to that subtraction is a number that is indistinguishable from 1.00 at any level of decimal accuracy reported by the computer. The answer is, for all practical purposes, equal to 1.00 -- or 100 percent.

Even if we assume that there are only 10 billion stars in our own galaxy, and that there are only a billion galaxies, the statistical answer to the probability of extraterrestrial intelligent life comes out to to be a number indistinguishable from 1.00. The probability that life exists outside the Earth does not depend very strongly on the actual number of stars in the universe -- as long as that number is very large. There are so many places for life to develop. While we used the best scientific estimates, even lower values still lead to the same answer, a number close to 1.00. The probability is a virtual certainty. We are not alone.

Source: Dr. Amir Aczel, professor of statistics, author of 'Probability 1, Why there must be intelligent life in the universe'.

root 1

root 2

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There is no proven intelligent alien life. To calculate alien life as advanced enough to cross such distances can never be fact, but only speculation, until it happens, no matter how advanced science calculation becomes.

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And those calculations are based on . . . ? As always, hope isn't proof, and pseudologic still doesn't work.

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Roger, I'm not gonna deliver the whole panoply of biochemistry, planetology and evolutionary science that supports the statistic. I can only say that it's founded enough, and is largely constructed on the scientific fact that Earth can NOT be the only living planet in the universe. Yet this is very conservatively applied within the statistical calculation, as far as space technology is concerned. We're all being careful here.

Edgar, your

Quote:

until it happens

resembles Enrico Fermi's paradox "If they exist, then where are they?"

The study of ufology is layered with solid evidence, backed up by the most credible witnesses, that several ufos can not be terrestrial, hence are extraterrestrial. Which solves the Fermi paradox.

It is rather our lack of universality that keeps us numb in this topic, not the lack of proof. It's advisable to do some research of your own, instead of bootstrapping opinions out of uninformed ignorance. This topic slightly outranks your regular chat session.

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wolf wrote:

I can only say that it's founded enough, and is largely constructed on the scientific fact that Earth can NOT be the only living planet in the universe.

Okay, the statistical certainty you refer to is firmly based on the scientific that the earth can NOT . . . . So, the statistics refer to an event that cannot be shown to have happened are based on a fact that cannot be shown. The reasoning is more than somewhat circular, but if it works for you, what the hey?

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I may be repeating myself, but this bears repeating:

I have no doubt that people, and even many people all across the planet, see, or believe that they see, objects, or what they believe are objects, which are flying, or which they believe are flying, and which they are then and subsequently unable to identify. To that extent, and that extent alone, i believe in UFO's. CodeBorge has put this well, although i doubt he'll be heeded. Absent irrefutable proof, such as an alloy which could only be formed in zero-gravity, or an artifact whcih can conclusively be shown not to have been produced on this planet--there is no good reason to believe in alien visitations.

My only regret about crop circles is that the two gentlemen in England who dreamed up that hoax did not find a way to exploit it financially. Given the neverending high-larity which believers in crop circles as evidence of alien visitation provide, those two should have gotten a nice living out of it.

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Probabilities of Alien Life visiting earth !
Alien Life is already here. Stop being Ridiculous. Do you really believe the lights that buzzed the White House in 1952 twice "1 week apart" were caused by temperature Inversion.

Why do you think project blue book was ever created to begin with ?

Haven't any of you seen the film of the 10 mile long tether with ufo's all around it. Do you people even attempt logic?

You really beleive the army couldnt decide that it was a weather balloon until Ramey gave it a glorified look.

Havent You seen the blown up photo of Rameys Letter ?

Havent any of you seen the photo's from space based camera's.
showing ufo's flying all over.
Mexico's mass sightings witnessed by thousands, clues for the clueless?.

You have a better chance to debunk Jesus, theres a lot less evidence.

Theres nothing you cant Debunk if it makes you sleep better at night.
When I lay me down to sleep I pray the aliens have teeth and a ferocious appetite for close minded sheep buttocks. You beleive all the astronauts that came forward with photo's and stories are Liars!.
If Coal miners were the majority of witnesses you might have a case!

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Fluid speaks like his name, but he's right. The debunkery of the UFO subject is an active yet hopeless endeavour on the www. Creeps like Setanta claim not to waste time on it, yet do everything within their brainwashed potential to disclaim any rational examination of the evidence at hand.

Quote:

an artifact whcih can conclusively be shown not to have been produced on this planet

If you're looking for that kind of proof, and haven't recognized it in the numerous UFO studies and testimonies of eg. Air Force officials from all continents, you're not worthy of even participating here. Stop wasting your time & go play with the dogs.

Testimonies by Air force pilots

Testimony by former NASA astronaut

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I've said my say. Have a nice time.

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Witnesses for UFO Congressional hearing

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