A Vice Presidental candidate thread.

@firefly,

The religious' right is now desperate, and for those with a fair vision can see through all this BS.

Now here's values you can believe in -- but irony has a way of catching up on you:

Quote:

Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee who revealed Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, earlier this year used her line-item veto to slash funding for a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live.

After the legislature passed a spending bill in April, Palin went through the measure reducing and eliminating funds for programs she opposed. Inking her initials on the legislation -- "SP" -- Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million. Covenant House is a mix of programs and shelters for troubled youths, including Passage House, which is a transitional home for teenage mothers.

According to Passage House's web site, its purpose is to provide "young mothers a place to live with their babies for up to eighteen months while they gain the necessary skills and resources to change their lives" and help teen moms "become productive, successful, independent adults who create and provide a stable environment for themselves and their families."

Palin's own daughter, Bristol, is five months pregnant and has plans to wed.

"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family," Palin said in a statement released by the McCain campaign. "We ask the media to respect our daughter and Levi's privacy, as has always been the tradition of children of candidates."

Earlier today the Associated Press reported that Sen. John McCain (Ariz.), the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, opposed funding to prevent teen pregnancies, a position that Palin also took as governor. "The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support," she wrote in a 2006 questionnaire distributed among gubernatorial candidates.

Reporters asked McCain in November 2007 whether he supported grants for sex education in the United States, whether such programs should include directions for using contraceptives and whether he supports President Bush's policy of promoting abstinence.

"Ahhh, I think I support the president's policy," McCain said.

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin wrote in her line-item veto changes by hand in this copy of a 2008 spending bill obtained by The Washington Post.

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More about the values of Palin's brand of GOP politics:

Quote:

Alaska Republican Sen. President: 'It's just surreal'

Among the numerous Sarah Palin mini-scandals that have trickled into public view in the last few days, one of the more disturbing is Palin's appearance last January on the Bob and Mark Show, where she sat back and listened to the DJs describe Republican State Senate President (and cancer survivor) Lyda Green, whom Palin had bumped heads with in the legislature, as "a cancer. She is nothing but a very jealous woman. I'm going to say what I wish you could say: Lyda Green is a bitch, and she needs to go away, because she is a cancer on the state of Alaska."

[..] I asked Green about the steady drip of drama that's been trickling out in recent days. Does she expect any more revelations? "I wouldn't be surprised," she says somewhat evasively. "I would have thought the campaign would found out about all of it by now. But in a town this size, there aren't many secrets."

As for the Bob and Mark interview, Green was "shocked and surprised that she would not respond to something so harsh, and even be on the show in the first place." Green says. "It's not a forum for a governor. I think she went to high school with one of the hosts; and they're very big supporters of the governor. When she called to apologize, she said ‘I hope you didn't misunderstand the radio show.' And I said, ‘No, I understood perfectly.'"

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More about the values of Palin's brand of GOP politics:

Sarah Palin laughs as a radio host calls her colleague and cancer survivor Senator Lyda Green a "bitch" and a "cancer"

Quote:

[..] Because [..] when you're on the radio with local shock jocks, and they call a (cancer-surviving) female political opponent of yours a "cancer" and a "bitch" and make fun of her weight, the proper response it to giggle delightedly and say you'd be "honored" if they came to hear your State of the State Address.

AUDIO

1 Reply

@firefly,

I will try to sum up as short of a post as possible, yet answer most of your points.

Alaska is the largest state, landwise, and just one example it produces I think close to 20% of our nation's energy. Serving as governor of Alaska cannot be compared simply according to p0pulation. I don't think it is any small j0b, firefly. Beyond that, I don't think there is anything that I could say that would convince you, you are entitled to your opinion, but I think it is biased, as most Democrats are against Palin.

Experience, I would much rather have a more experienced president, that is the most important, vp experience is a bit down on my list, and it isn't as if there are no advisors and experts around the Whitehouse to help with all of this stuff. And Palin is at least as experienced as Obama. Experience, if you want to make that an issue, the Repubs have it won hands down, no contest.

On sex education, you need correction in regard to what I said. I never said procreation was the only purpose, I said it was the primary purpose. It is the central purpose, and I contend that when it becomes only a recreation, and when people that engage in sex solely for recreation, and do not take responsibility for the consequences, our society has gone awry.

Abortion and capital punishment, hmmm, the really puzzling thing is the fact that pro-choice people are often anti capital punishment. A felon, a murderer, compared to an innocent child, no comparison, yet some would consent to killing the innocent, and most helpless member of the human family, while protecting the life of a criminal, that is not innocent. That is the real puzzle.

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@cicerone imposter,

Speaking of desperate, the lefties are going nuts right now, ci.

1 Reply

@okie,

What do you mean, going nuts?

I'd say that the poll leads enjoyed by Obama right now have us feeling pretty good. Even if the RNC gets McCain a bounce, the best he could hope for is to regain parity...

And I doubt you will even achieve that. Fred and Joe Lieberman aren't saying anything to attract independents. It's more like an old-folks home convention.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

What do you mean, going nuts?

I mean exactly what I said, they are going nuts. That is the ones that haven't been nuts for a long time already.

1 Reply

@nimh,

What about your brand of politics, nimh? A couple of days ago, the leftie blogs had Sarah Palin faking a pregnancy. I see that didn't work. Now what kind of uplifting stuff are you working on? I hope it makes you proud.

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@okie,

I'm glad that Palin didn't fake a pregnancy -- things are already weird, and that would have just pushed it into the stratosphere -- but there is a reason people were going "eh???" The shock when she announced she was 7 months pregnant (even her closest associates had no idea) PLUS the jumping on a very long flight after her water broke simply because she didn't want the baby born in Texas PLUS the lack of any photos showing her looking actually pregnant PLUS Bristol being out of school for months on end added up to something that makes you go hmmm.

I dismissed it out of hand when it first came up, but all of the weirdnesses PLUS -- and this is important -- the lack of response from the McCain campaign made me wonder if it was actually maybe possibly true. I never thought it was anything but unlikely, but why not just come out with the she's-pregnant photo or other rumor-busting evidence immediately?

This again goes back to vetting or lack thereof. If they'd vetted her adequately, they would have known what to expect, and would have had a response ready as soon as the first questions were raised... instead of letting it fester at the most critical period (as people are getting to know her).

1 Reply

@okie,

okie, of all the arguments in support of Palin's experience, this is probably the silliest

Quote:

Alaska is the largest state, landwise, and just one example it produces I think close to 20% of our nation's energy. Serving as governor of Alaska cannot be compared simply according to p0pulation.

The land mass of a state is related to the job of being the governor of that state?

Seems to me the governor's job relates to the people of the state, and the amount of uninhabited land, or pure land mass, is about as irrelevant as you can get in determining how complex or difficult that job is. Alaska is the 4th smallest state in the union, in terms of population (the people that the governor actually serves), and the significance of Palin's "executive experience" must be viewed in that light--along with the fact that she has only been in the position for 2 years.

Pointing out that senators have even less executive experience doesn't make for a compelling argument either, since that suggests that Palin is better qualified than McCain.

Does Palin share McCain's views on foreign policy? What are her views on our current economic problems? We know where she stands on social issues, like abortion, but what are her views on the national and international issues facing our country, and were these even considered when McCain selected her?

While it is nice that some people can identify with her middle-class, real folks, girl-next-door appeal, what do any of those things have to do with her ability to serve as VP or president, if need be? If I wanted someone who is just like my next door neighbor in the highest offices in the land, I'd vote for my next door neighbor. I don't want average people in office--I want the best and the brightest running the country, people of outstanding ability.

As president and VP I want statesmen, or stateswomen, in office--people who present an image to the world that commands respect and inspires confidence in their leadership. Being in the PTA, or just another regular hockey mom, or even serving two years as governor of a tiny state, is not exactly preparation for that kind of job, nor does it bring with it the stature required of a VP (or president) on the world stage. America's image has been horribly damaged over the past 8 years. We need to repair that image with leaders who project intelligence, good reasoned judgment, leadership, and an understanding of international issues and foreign powers--people who command respect on a world stage. I do not feel that Palin's hockey mom (or hockey grandma), just-an-average-person persona fits that image. I don't think that McCain's often bumbling, sometimes ill-informed, sometimes impulsive, manner fits it either. Taken together, they are not an impressive combo.

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@firefly,

firefly-

I think you have missed my point. You are, of course, right in the limited way you treat with the matter.

I am more focussed on the "point of delivery" and the disincentives which used to exist and which are now considerably weakened. Levi Johnston, in the Palin daughter case, if what I read is true, has liquidated them. He has the approach of the animal and that can be defended but I'll forbear doing so.

Without the possibility of conception it is a mere dance. A form of masturbation. The pill is a poison, coils etc are dangerous to women and condoms are a "I never touched the sides your honour". The simple facilitation of male orgasm. If that's "sex" the word has no limits.

But the thread has gone past that now.

I take the Roman Catholic view on the grounds that it is the only one which maintains the dignity of women. If it is misunderstood in the service of self gratification there's not much I can do about it.

Undignified women are not for me. They are a "convenience". Literally.

The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind.

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@sozobe,

Yes, I read the blogs about the possible faking pregnancy, and it had me worried, but one thing I learned, again, is that blogs invented this as a problem. It never was a problem, it was invented. How can you say that the McCain campaign should be able to predict all the nonsense that is invented? I say the responsibility lies with the people making this stuff up.

And vetting a relative unknown or newcomer to politics, there is no way it can be done completely, to predict everything that might be dug up or invented, just no way. Everybody knows it is a risky pick, but one that will prove good or not so good, its up to Palin and McCain, the buck stops at McCain, but remember, he not only had people investigating the background, but he most assuredly had talked to many people that have followed her career up to this point. Another point, take Hillary Clinton, known to have received a cattle futures favor or kickback, but that is all forgotten, no problem with the lefties, but if that was Palin, she would have been gone already and stepped down from running, I would bet my bottom dollar on that.

Also, there is dirt in Biden's family, but what do you hear about it, answer, virtually nothing. But Palin, the digging will be incessant and constant in an effort to run this lady off the stage. If she can survive this, she is one tough woman.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Yes, I read the blogs about the possible faking pregnancy, and it had me worried, but one thing I learned, again, is that blogs invented this as a problem. It never was a problem, it was invented. How can you say that the McCain campaign should be able to predict all the nonsense that is invented? I say the responsibility lies with the people making this stuff up.

Because it was "invented" well before Palin was chosen. Rumors were going around for quite a while.

That's what vetting IS. It looks like a bare-minimum legal vet was done -- making sure she's actually a citizen, that sort of thing. But the political vetting wasn't done. That's where you investigate what the opposition might find about your candidate, and how severe it is, and how easily it can be rebutted. And if it's easily rebutted, prepare that rebuttal or head things off at the pass.

Quote:

but he most assuredly had talked to many people that have followed her career up to this point.

This seems to NOT be the case. I've posted stuff about this before, can go back and find it and re-post. But that is one of the specific criticisms -- that he DIDN'T talk to people who could have filled him in on some of this stuff. Too interested in a quick turnaround (Lieberman seemed to be the top choice up until 2-3 days before Palin was announced) and stepping on Obama's speech. No time for a real vet. (Pawlenty, by contrast, was vetted for 2-3 months.)

1 Reply

@firefly,

Population of a state is perhaps the most important, but to contend that landmass and infrastructure such as energy production are of no importance, I think you are dead wrong. In terms of responsibility, actually running a city, or running a state the size of Alaska is no small job. Try it if you think it is like being a hockey mom.

Foreign policy, you will be hearing more from Palin about this. You just haven't gotten acquainted with her, what she knows, and what her stances are. Give her a chance. If you are that concerned about foreign policy experience, I think you need to concentrate on the president, and Obama has no experience, none, and last I heard he may think there are 57 states, whatever, and that 10,000 people died in the Greensburg, Kansas tornado.

Again, I am still evaluating this woman, I think everyone is, but I am going to give her a fair hearing. You can start by listening to her speech at the RNC.

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@sozobe,

My understanding is they were aware of the pregnancy rumor, but Sarah had dispelled all of that, voluntarily, and had also volunteered the fact of her daughters pregnancy. There were people that saw Sarah pregnant, the McCain campaign had all of that known. The rumor spreading was by people just not very informed. How can McCain predict that stuff?

Sarah also voluntarily provided more info, such as on her husband's drunk driving charge when he was young in the 80's, and on the brother in law flap.

Again, there are Democrats around that are being worshipped with much bigger scandals, that the media pays no attention to whatsoever. I mention again, the cattle future kickback or favor, it is totally ignored, but is obvious and blatant corruption. You don't see a double standard?

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@okie,

They 'volunteered' the info about her daughter's pregnancy, b/c the National Enquirer told them that they either revealed it, or the Enquirer would. That's why a hasty press release went out on Monday morning about it.

Cycloptichorn

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Again, there are Democrats around that are being worshipped with much bigger scandals, that the media pays no attention to whatsoever. I mention again, the cattle future kickback or favor, it is totally ignored, but is obvious and blatant corruption.

"Hey, look over there!"

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@okie,

okie wrote:

My understanding is they were aware of the pregnancy rumor, but Sarah had dispelled all of that, voluntarily, and had also volunteered the fact of her daughters pregnancy. There were people that saw Sarah pregnant, the McCain campaign had all of that known. The rumor spreading was by people just not very informed. How can McCain predict that stuff?

One would think that McCain would be able to predict something he already knew. Exclamation

(Blue = you say he knew it. Red = you say he couldn't predict it.)

Quote:

Again, there are Democrats around that are being worshipped with much bigger scandals, that the media pays no attention to whatsoever. I mention again, the cattle future kickback or favor, it is totally ignored, but is obvious and blatant corruption. You don't see a double standard?

I certainly see a double standard! When Dan Quayle lights into Murphy Brown (a fictional character) for conceiving a baby out of wedlock and makes that a major part of a "family values" debate in a national election one year, and then in another year his counterpart's daughter (not a fictional character) actually does conceive a baby out of wedlock -- at age 17! -- and that's just this nice admirable thing, wow, she didn't abort, good for her... yeah, I see a double standard!

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@okie,

Okie wrote:

Again, there are Democrats around that are being worshipped with much bigger scandals, that the media pays no attention to whatsoever. I mention again, the cattle future kickback or favor, it is totally ignored, but is obvious and blatant corruption. You don't see a double standard?

There most certainly is a double standard in the press...just look at the incident in 1996 when Al Gore was VP and his son was suspended from St Albans for smoking pot in the cafeteria. Al Gore Jr. personally called the news outlets and asked that they not report on the incident. They all complied. Somehow when it's a Republican child in trouble, she's fair game.

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A Vice Presidental candidate thread.

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