A Vice Presidental candidate thread.

Quoted from the NYT (the key paragraph to summarize Palin):
[/b][/color]

What do you think are the issues c.i. ? You're always talking about things without saying what they are. You seem to think you are on the issues because you talk about issues.

McCain's camp worries Palin may struggle without tight debate rules
Staff, Vancouver Sun
Published: Sunday, September 21, 2008
It's the U.S. election debate that most interested observers have been eagerly waiting for - Democratic vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden against Republican VP choice Sarah Palin - but don't expect them to get into many verbal exchanges.

According to a report in the New York Times Saturday, the campaign of Senator John McCain has fought for tight rules on how the VP debate will run, limiting the chances of anything other than short answers, and ensuring the debaters will not speak directly to one another for anything more than short periods.

This in contrast to the Presidential debates, in which Senators Barack Obama and McCain will be allowed to address each other, argue, and present rebuttals for five minutes per question, after a two-minute answer period.

More at the link: http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=7045e68a-6627-45cc-bad1-72a017869fc4

If she can't handle a debate.....

Wait a minute squinn-- what you are offering as a "contrast to the Presidential debates" (historical fact) is something which is "according to a report in the New York Times" (pure speculation) which will be completely forgotten in the event of the report being inaccurate.

Do you think we are all soft in the head?

I know you are, but what am I?

What I'm offering is a link to an article reporting that the McCain campaign asked for special rules for Palin for the VP debate and asking "If she can't handle a debate....?"

McCain/Palin claiming to be "reformers" is a complete joke. Electing them would be like hiring an arsonist to be a member of your fire department.

They claim to be offering transparency in government. Yet McCain hasn't even released his complete medical records for public review. This is not a small matter for a 72 year old who has had several bouts of cancer. And Palin continues to stymie the Troopergate investigation into her possible abuse of powers as governor of Alaska, and to significantly distort her own past record in office. McCain hasn't held a news conference, where he could answer reporters' questions, in over 40 days, and Palin hasn't held one since she was picked for the ticket.

These two don't want to answer questions about things on voters' minds--they don't stand for accountability in government--they simply want to continue a campaign that is a charade.

So, it is not surprising they want Palin's VP debate to be as limited and protective of her as possible. When she has tried to speak on issues, her thinking has been shallow, ill-informed, and confused. She's obviously been trying to memorize facts, but she shows limited capacity for thoughtfulness, reasoned judgment or intellectual depth--on any subject.

Now they can keep Palin under protective wraps, except for her well rehearsed stump speeches, but, if she is elected, who will protect America from her?

Yes firefly but are you saying we need unlimited capacity for thoughtfulness, reasoned judgment or intellectual depth--on any subject? These threads prove that that is a recipe for going around in circles.

It's a bit irrational suggesting America might need protecting from Mrs Palin.

Yes, I guess I am . I think that the highest offices in our country require those qualities--in abundance. Would you see those attributes as a drawback in a U.S. VP or president?



She is a considerably dumber and less well educated version of George Bush.
When I think of what he has done to the country, on both the domestic economic front, and our involvement in a totally unnecessary war with no clear end in sight, I shudder to think about what Sarah Palin might do to the country, particulary if she became president.

I didn't say I would see those attributes, which are asserted anyway, as "drawbacks". I merely suggested there might be other attributes of greater importance in certain circumstances.

I don't see what Mrs Palin could do to make you shudder that didn't require her to find a consensus on The Hill. The "totally unnecessary war" you speak of had majorities voting for it in both Houses and in our Parliament. And other countries joined in. Are you saying they are all dingbats?

It's just a post that needs filling.

One can be almost certain that people who go on about thoughtfulness, reasoned judgment or intellectual depth consider themselves to have such attributes themselves and I have found that they are often mistaken in holding such beliefs.

I can't think of any attributes in our Chief Executive more important than thoughtfulness, reasoned judgment and intellectual depth. If that person can not fully understand the issues, and objectively think them through, before rendering a considered judgment, I really do not think they are fit to serve in the office.

What qualities would you see as being of greater importance than those?

Our Congress were not "dingbats", in authorizing the war--they were lied to by Bush. The information they were given was not true, and it was deliberately misrepresented. They put trust in the president and he abused that trust.

Bush then abused the powers he was given under The Patriot Act.

Now we have a severe economic crisis and Congress is appropriately skeptical about giving sweeping power, and $700 billion to the Secretary of the Treasury to bail out the economy--partly because this administration has a poor track record in terms of credibility and abuse of power.

Palin, also, seems to have little regard for the truth, she shrouds the workings of the Alaska governor's office in secrecy, she exhibits the worst of Bush's cockiness, and she may well have abused the powers of her office.

In addition, Palin and Bush both share a religious philosophy that predisposes both of them to see the Muslim world as fertile soil for Christian missionaries--a view that accounts for some of the anger that Islamic extremists direct toward us. Bush, in a most unforunate choice of words, referred to the invasion of Iraq as "a crusade". Palin has referred to "a mission from God". These are frightening viewpoints in a world where religion becomes the basis for war. It is not the job of the United States, or any other country, to convert the Muslim world to Christianity--or to even make it possible for that to happen. But I deeply believe that was at least part of Bush's motivation in invading Iraq. Were Palin elected, I am positive she would act in similar ways since her religion plays a big part in how she views issues in Alaska.

firefly, Well said, but Palin said "a task from god."

What a laugh. Obama refuses to be interviewed by anyone that will ask him any tough questions at all. He finally talked to O'Reilly, but only on the night of the RNC convention. When has he held any press conferences lately - to invite any and all questions? And how much of his record is locked up? I think the army of investigators in Alaska should be sent to Chicago, and maybe we would find out something.

One might well ask why would there be any need at all for an "army of federal investigators" in Alaska, which really are just McCain campaign operatives trying to exert control over a state matter. That's a Banana Republic, Okie.

The army of investigators I am talking about is the media types. If they had just a fraction of the curiosity directed at Obama, the efforts would be much better spent.

Funny, okie, I thought Obama just went through about 18 months of primary campaigning, answering rather tough questions in all those debates, plus appearances on all the political interview shows where he again answered tough questions. And he was in the state senate before he became a U.S. Senator. Seems to me, his record is out in the open, and he's been anwering tough questions for a very long time. He's been on the national scene for at least the past four years. He's also written best selling books.

He had a press conference last week. He may have had another one today.

Obama isn't hiding from the press at all--but Palin sure is.

Palin, must be the first major party candidate to be kept under such tight wraps, suggesting that she does have something to hide--even if it's only her ignorance of issues and lack of depth. But the Republicans clearly don't want this woman to open her mouth without a script. Shouldn't that tell you something?

Ha ha, firefly. Hannity has an open invite for Obama to come on his show and answer questions and debate him. Hannity even offers money for it, to be given to Obama's brother living in a mud hut in Africa, just to try to encourage Obama to be his brothers keeper. Obama continues to refuse to do it. He doesn't want any tough questions. He would rather talk to Barbara Walters about being related to Brad Pitt. What a joke. The man is hiding from anybody that opposes him, that is very plain to see.

Not only did Obama spend the last 18-months or so on the campaign trail, but appeared on multitudes of tv shows to answer questions, wrote two books to express his ideas, and is now on the stump to speak to the public at gatherings almost every day.

The real question is, where's Palin?

All McCain does is flip-flops from one issue to the next, and charges lies against Obama.

I've heard they have come together in a show of national solidarity in these difficult times.

That must be why he appeared on Bill O'Reilly's show last month then, in an interview that was broadcast in four parts.

Dont see Palin appearing on Olbermann any time soon...

The New York Times
September 27, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist

Palin’s Words Raise Red Flags
By BOB HERBERT
The country is understandably focused on the financial crisis. But there is another serious issue in front of us that is not getting nearly enough attention, and that’s whether Sarah Palin is qualified to be vice president " or, if the situation were to arise, president of the United States.

History has shown again and again that a vice president must be ready to assume command of the ship of state on a moment’s notice. But Ms. Palin has given no indication yet that she is capable of handling the monumental responsibilities of the presidency if she were called upon to do so.

In fact, the opposite is the case. We know that there are some parts of Alaska from which, if the day is clear and your eyesight is good, you can actually see Russia. But the infantile repetition of this bit of trivia as some kind of foreign policy bona fide for a vice presidential candidate should give us pause.

The McCain campaign has done its bizarre best to shield Ms. Palin from any sustained media examination of her readiness for the highest offices in the land, and no wonder. She has been an embarrassment in interviews.

But the idea that the voters of the United States might install someone in the vice president’s office who is too unprepared or too intellectually insecure to appear on, say, “Meet the Press” or “Face the Nation” is mind-boggling.

The alarm bells should be clanging and warning lights flashing. You wouldn’t put an unqualified pilot in the cockpit of a jetliner. The potential for catastrophe is far, far greater with an unqualified president.

The United States has been lucky in terms of the qualifications of the vice presidents who have had to step in over the last several decades for presidents who either died or, in Richard Nixon’s case, were forced to leave office. Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson became extraordinary presidents in their own right. Gerald Ford successfully guided the nation through the immediate aftermath of one of the most traumatic political crises in its history.

For those who think Sarah Palin is in that league, there is no problem. But her unscripted public appearances would lead most honest observers to think otherwise. When asked again this week about her puerile linkage of foreign policy proficiency and Alaska’s proximity to Russia, this time by Katie Couric of CBS News, here is what Ms. Palin said she meant:

“That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and on our other side, the land " boundary that we have with " Canada.”

She went on, but lost her way midsentence: “It’s funny that a comment like that was kind of made to " cari " I don’t know, you know? Reporters ...”

Ms. Couric said, “Mocked?”

“Yeah, mocked,” said Ms. Palin. “I guess that’s the word. Yeah.”

It is not just painful, but frightening to watch someone who could become the vice president of the United States stumbling around like this in an interview.

Ms. Couric asked Ms. Palin to explain how Alaska’s proximity to Russia “enhances your foreign policy credentials.”

“Well, it certainly does,” Ms. Palin replied, “because our, our next-door neighbors are foreign countries, there in the state that I am the executive of. And there"”

Gently interrupting, Ms. Couric asked, “Have you ever been involved in any negotiations, for example, with the Russians?”

“We have trade missions back and forth,” said Ms. Palin. “We do. It’s very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes into the airspace of the United States of America, where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to our state.”

It was surreal, the kind of performance that would generate a hearty laugh if it were part of a Monty Python sketch. But this is real life, and the stakes couldn’t be higher. As Ms. Palin was fumbling her way through the Couric interview, the largest bank failure in the history of the United States, the collapse of Washington Mutual, was occurring.

The press has an obligation to hammer away at Ms. Palin’s qualifications. If it turns out that she has just had a few bad interviews because she was nervous or whatever, additional scrutiny will serve her well.

If, on the other hand, it becomes clear that her performance, so far, is an accurate reflection of her qualifications, it would behoove John McCain and the Republican Party to put the country first " as Mr. McCain loves to say " and find a replacement for Ms. Palin on the ticket.