How to make American Higher Education a laughingstock

hobit, So, what's the beef?

"The Beef" is that this is an attempt to change the focus of universities from education to indoctrination. There has been much noise here about how our (Texan) governor feels that the faculty of Colorado's schools are too liberal. He wishes to have a faculty made up of republican registered far righties, an end to "socialist" education (i.e.: a return to the common narrative), and a "return" to the teaching of "good. old fashioned American values" in the universities.

I must agree with hobitbob. we have had enough of the irrelvant dead white men like Shakespeare, Dante, Milton, Wordsworth, Melville and Joyce.

They were all people who served to give affirmation to the ruling classes of the time.

You can find more truth and reality in the writings of Toni Morrison, James Baldwin and Ralph Ellison than in the unreal and long forgotten books that deal with the past.

Leave the Universities alone. They are doing a great job.

Harvard recently showed how advanced their curriculum is by hiring Spike Lee to teach Film Study classes.

The rest of the Universities should fallow Harvard's lead.

Italgato:

Having read all of your most recent posts and finding much agreement with what you say, I'm curious if you would care to discuss your opinion of the university role in providing some guidance and understanding of the value of ethics to the student?

What obligation do you believe the university has if any, and how much emphasis should be placed on this subject?

Please also discuss what was done say 40 years ago, what is currently being done, and what should be done regarding ethics if you would please.

HobitBob - that is one scary bit of news. Wonder where it'll go.

You can tell Perception and Italgato are familiar with Harvard and places like that! And with film-making! I'll make it even worse for those august institutions by telling you that, at Harvard, I took Dizzy Gillespie to dinner after he taught a one-time seminar there.

Yes, it is getting ridiculous, Hobit! But worse than that, dangerous. The idea that life is about inflicting one's point of view on another, as though there were one or two points of view, as though that were the purpose of education, shows that education in the US has already sunk pretty damn low.

Privates, especially Ivies, are sort of immune from this sort of thing (still), but if it passes in State schools, you can bet the powers that be will be gunning for the private schools.
The problem with the "conservative vision (forgive the oxymoron)" is that it very much favours an either or approach. Either the "western canon,' or "alternative studies." Most academics favour a complete mix of both, instead of the exclusion of one entire set of authors. Acceptance of this effort by our (Texan) governor will likely lead to pressure on institutions to return to some form of the "Common Narrative," where Christianity and Western Civilization triumph over evil, backward savages; where "John Wayne as History" is the rule, and where manifest destiny and "progress" are seen as the driving force behind humanity. This would be intolerable, and should rightly be seen as an insult to every thinking human being.

I'd say it's not education that's sunk so low as it is the political machine.

Let's see how the education system deals with this. CO may fall, but MA won't (crossing my fingers).

Tartarin

Since you are intimately familar with the goings-on at Harvard and I am not, perhaps you would like to deal with the question I posed to Italgato.

Perhaps you believe that ethics is something only liberals possess or perhaps you believe it is something that is pounded into the "blank slate" by the environment at age three.

What ever your belief perhaps you would dazzle us with it and tell if Harvard teaches it or has any responsiblity to instill it.

After all this thread is about the future of education.

I agree with littlek; it's not education that has sunk too low for our own good; it's politics and politicians. If that is corrected by the American People, everything else will follow in a positive way. The American Voter just doesn't seem to realize what we have wrought upon ourselves.

I can't answer your question from a 2003 point of view -- only guess. My days at Harvard were few and long ago. In my experience with Harvard (and my undergraduate days at a similar place), ethics (as a code for living) had been learned before arriving at college. Let's separate learning about ethics from having ethics. Ethics, as an academic subject, is taught at every university, isn't it? As far as I know, pretty much every college student has the opportunity to take ethics courses, or major in philosophy. In my view, ethics as code are scarcist these days among major supporters of Republican Party but are cherished (if sometimes bypassed) by centrist Republican and liberal thinkers.

A serious answer to the implications of your question, Perc: college and graduate education should not be the saucer for the incontinent cup of K-12. College should not be an arena for indoctrination, cleaning up after a poor education and upbringing, like teaching children table manners or not to steal someone's bike because their parents didn't teach them,. It should be the place where you have an opportunity to learn how to question intelligently. In the program in which I had the luck to take Diz to dinner, George Kennan, Henry Kissinger, and many others of that ilk were also participants. Spike Lee, a remarkable and interesting film maker (whether you like his films or not) would have fit in nicely. The purpose of the program was to offer students direct access to Americans who had already made their mark and who offered very different views of American character and social structure. The hundred plus kids who were able to take part -- to have personal contact with these guys in an informal setting -- were assumed to have the capacity to listen, to question, and to form their own judgments. They wouldn't have gotten into that college if they hadn't. Harvard does a good job of fostering inquisitiveness and an open mind, as do many other colleges and graduate programs. From what Hobit has hinted at, he's experiencing this once again at his university. I envy him. We should all be so lucky as to be reminded to be open to all possibilities.

There are conservative voices on every campus I've ever set foot on, some well-known, some not so well-known. Ditto liberal. Kissinger taught at Harvard for years and even during the short time I was there changed his points of view as did most professors as they worked together and with students. Only the most amateurish flunkies (and flunk-outs) cling desperately to a point of view and weep and gnash their teeth when it is challenged.

See: Daniel Pipes.

Ayup, as we used to say down east.

Tartarin

I was disappointed with the superficiality of your response. In particular your statement that by the end of high school one's ethics are locked in concrete.
I found this statement probably inaccurate because neuroscience tells us that the prefrontal cortex(the CEO portion of the brain where decisions are made)continues to develop beyond age 20. From Google I present the following which seems to refute your statement: While it deals mostly with business ethics (which is why I asked the question) it would seem realistic to say that it applies to all forms of ethical behavior and the teaching thereof.


Quote: One false assumption guides the view that business ethics can't be taught: the belief that one's ethics are fully formed and immutable by the time one enters college or begins a job. Research in moral psychology has found that this is definitely not the case. Moral judgement develops throughout childhood and young adulthood in a complex process of social interaction with peers, parents and other significant persons, and this development continues at least through young adulthood. Research, then, supports the argument that ethics can be taught. Given that most people enter professional education programs and corporations during young adulthood, the opportunity to influence their moral reasoning clearly exists. In fact, young adults in their twenties and thirties enrolled in moral development educational programs have been found to advance in moral reasoning even more than younger individuals.

Ethical behavior relies on more than good character. Although good upbringing may provide a kind of moral compass that can help the individual determine the right direction and then follow through on a decision to do the right thing, it's not the only factor determining ethical conduct. Educational programs in business ethics can and do shape the development of a young person's ethical values and behavior.

In the complexity of today's society, individuals need additional guidance. They can be helped to recognize the ethical dilemmas that are likely to arise in their jobs, as well as the rules, laws, and norms that apply in that context. They also can learn reasoning strategies that can be used to arrive at the best decision. And they also can grasp an understanding of the complexities of organizational life that can conflict with one's desire to do the right thing.

With the increasing globalization of business through travel and the use of the worldwide web, more managers are finding themselves in an international environment full of ethical challenges. If managing business activities with ethical conduct is a challenge in one's own culture, imagine how the difficulties multiply when the culture and language are foreign, and the manager is under increased stress. Individuals need to be taught about the conduct of business in different cultures as well as about the broader organizational issues concerning whether and how to conduct business in foreign nations, and how to guide employees working in a global business environment. To a great extent, ethical conduct is influenced and controlled by our environment in work settings, by leaders, managers, and the entire cultural context. As a result, we believe that educational institutions and work organizations can and do have an opportunity to teach people about ethics and to guide them in an ethical direction.end Quote

(In December 2000, the Christos and Mary Papoutsy Endowed Chair in Business Ethics was established at New Hampshire College (Southern New Hampshire University). This chair will serve as a cornerstone for an integrated program in business ethics at both the undergraduate- and graduate-level at New Hampshire College. The purpose of the endowed chair in business ethics is to promote and enhance awareness of ethics in personal and professional settings for students and community audiences. Through teaching, community lectures, and conferences, all audiences will be assisted in understanding and applying the lessons taught by current and Classical ethicists to twenty-first century settings. Special emphasis will be placed upon the works of ancient Greek writers and intellectuals whose teachings have shaped the history of Western civilization from antiquity until the present. For more information, contact Dianne Hopkins at 603-431-7030 or check the "Business Arena" page of the Hellenic Communication Service web site at www.HellenicComServe.com.)

From Hobits initial statement from the Rocky Mountain news there was this:

Next year, the GOP leadership hopes to implement the "Academic Bill of Rights," which sets out "to secure the intellectual independence of faculty and students and to protect the principle of intellectual diversity."

Think of conservative professors as a "Minority". Now I know you are in favor of minority hiring and protection. In connection with this topic it was brought out that there was a 6 to I differential of professors in the political science departments. In all fairness that needs to be changed.

I fail to see how hiring a few more conservative professors will somehow change higher education from left wing indoctrination to right wing indoctrination.

As things stand now, there is no "indoctrination." Should this plan become accepted, then indoctrination would certainly begin. I find vetting academics on their political beliefs to be highly disengenous. You may recall that the Nazi and Soviet governments required academics to be party members. Again you demonstrate your preferences for the methods of totalitarian states.

"...your statement that by the end of high school one's ethics are locked in concrete..."

Didn't say that, Perc.

Seems obvious to me that business ethics is a necessary subject for business admin students, along with criminal law.

Hobit wrote;

As things stand now, there is no "indoctrination." Should this plan become accepted, then indoctrination would certainly begin. I find vetting academics on their political beliefs to be highly disengenous. You may recall that the Nazi and Soviet governments required academics to be party members. Again you demonstrate your preferences for the methods of totalitarian states.

Let me get this straight----you say as it stands now there is no indoctrination. You also say you are teaching part time on your way to a job as a professor. You have very strong political views---all of them liberal(approaching fanatical) and you want us to believe you will not use your position to indoctrinate your students in your political views.

I see no need to "indoctrinate" students. I am more concerend with pounding history into their little Britney clogged brains! I rarely allow politics into the classrooom.