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Ben Stien's new movie EXSPELLED

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 06:55 pm
Quote:
The theory of evolution, all variants involving claims of anything beyond simple microevolution, is a total crock of **** which has been thoroughly debunked over a vey long period of time, in ways too numerous to count, and is at present only being defended by academic dead wood and losers. No body with any brains or talent believes in it any more.


Sounds like someone who flunked out as a biology major. Very Happy .

Im glad that gunga's not in charge of anything that requires a measurable IQ.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 07:19 pm
You're talking about evolutionary biology. What a waste of a life for anybody to major in such a thing.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 05:29 am
ANy part of biology that doesnt have evolution as a keystone? Maybe at Bob Jones U , but you wont see any great contributions from their faculty. Im gonna check to see whether Bob Jones or Liberty U even teach natural sciences.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 05:38 am
Heres Bob Jones U's yearly class list for their biology majors Very Happy
Quote:
III. A TYPICAL YEARLY COURSE SEQUENCE
This is a suggested program of study for you. Other refinements to your program can be made when you consult your faculty advisor at the time of your enrollment.
You will notice that some courses are listed as electives. These electives give you the opportunity to tailor your program by selecting courses you would like to take for your own personal enjoyment.
Freshman
Orientation ........................................................ 1 Orientation ........................................................ 1
General Biology I .............................................. 4 General Biology II ............................................. 4
College Algebra ................................................ 3 History of Civilization........................................ 3
History of Civilization....................................... 3 New Testament Messages ................................. 1
Old Testament Messages ................................... 1 Fundamentals of Speech .................................... 3
English Composition.......................................... 3 English Composition.......................................... 3
Minor or Electives ............................................. 1 Minor or Electives.............................................. 1
Total...................................................................16 Total ................................................................. 16
Sophomore
Essentials of Cell Biology ................................. 4 Botany ............................................................... 4
General Chemistry I .......................................... 4 General Chemistry II ......................................... 4
Sophomore Bible Elective ................................. 1 Science: Impact on Society................................ 3
English Literature............................................... 3 Sophomore Bible Elective ................................. 1
Minor or Electives ............................................. 4 Minor or Electives ............................................. 4
Total ................................................................. 16 Total ................................................................. 16
Junior
Invertebrate Zoology ......................................... 4 Christian Family Forum .................................... 1
Elementary Statistics ......................................... 3 Bible Doctrines .................................................. 3
Bible Doctrines.................................................. 3 Biology Elective ................................................ 4
General Psychology........................................... 3 Psychology Elective .......................................... 3
Minor or Electives ............................................. 3 Social Studies Elective ...................................... 3
Total ................................................................. 16 Minor or Electives ............................................. 2
Total ................................................................. 16
Senior
Biology Seminar ............................................... 1 Oral Communication for the Professions .......... 3
Upper-Level Bible Elective ............................... 2 Upper-Level Bible Elective ............................... 2
Biology Elective ................................................ 8 Biology Elective ................................................ 4
Minor or Electives ............................................. 5 Minor or Electives ............................................. 7
Total ................................................................. 16 Total ................................................................. 16


They list the fact that they dont teachEvolution as the cornerstone of their biology department.
Welcome to Bob Jones, you will now turn your watches back 120 years]
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 05:50 am
From a thread in another forum:

Quote:

I'm taking a class called Feedback Systems right now and one of the professors on the staff gave an interesting lecture on feedback used by the body to help the brain control the eye. Without going into too much detail, there's a delay of about 130 ms between the time a signal is sent from the eye and the time it reaches the brain -- so apparently the brain models the "eye plant" (the system which takes brain signals as input and causes the eye muscles to move appropriately) to predict what the eye will do given the signal it just sent and thus reduce the effective delay between the eye and brain to about 50 ms. This is the case for other systems throughout the body as well.

My point is that I find it highly unlikely the brain managed to develop such a clever system by mutations alone -- to me, it's evidence that we were intelligently designed.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 06:47 am
Thats what Id expect from an ID standpoint. They reach a conclusion based on the slimmest of evidence. To have a student reach a conclusion from a description of a biochem pathway and not look any deeper, is an SOP for IDers.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 07:22 am
gungasnake wrote:
From a thread in another forum:

Quote:
My point is that I find it highly unlikely the brain managed to develop such a clever system by mutations alone

The classic "I can't comprehend it, so it must be impossible" argument. A thought process resulting in "I give up, it must be magic". How pitiful.

If thought processes like that had been the best our ancestors could do, our civilization wouldn't even exist and we would still be wandering around gathering fire from magic lightning strikes from from heaven.

Thank god some humans possess the desire to actually explore the world and understand things, or we would still be animals.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 08:46 am
rosborne979 wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
From a thread in another forum:

Quote:
My point is that I find it highly unlikely the brain managed to develop such a clever system by mutations alone

The classic "I can't comprehend it, so it must be impossible" argument. A thought process resulting in "I give up, it must be magic". How pitiful.

If thought processes like that had been the best our ancestors could do, our civilization wouldn't even exist and we would still be wandering around gathering fire from magic lightning strikes from from heaven.

Thank god some humans possess the desire to actually explore the world and understand things, or we would still be animals.


You guys are good. I enjoy this stuff immensely.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 09:55 am
farmerman wrote:
Any part of biology that doesnt have evolution as a keystone?


Nothing decent, anyway.

Evolution is the justification for using model organisms such as yeast, zebrafish, fruit flies and mice. Indeed, we find many genes that are common between species because of common descent.

That's why humans have a gene called lunatic fringe. It was first discovered in fruit flies, where researchers named it after what the fly looked like after knocking the gene out. The name kinda stuck after that.

Even if you don't do evolutionary biology and even think about evolution, it is still important to many biological sciences.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 09:58 am
rosborne979 wrote:
neologist wrote:
"He who causes to become"...

... is limiting to the concept of God.

God should not be limited to being a "He" or a "Who", so a better phrase might be "That which causes to become".

And God should not be limited by causality, so "causes to become" also doesn't really do the concept justice.

The phrase really should be "That which is".
The Hebrews referred to Jehovah as 'he' not only to show his position of headship (as in the Jewish family arrangement), but also to identify him as a person.

Your distillation, although cute, fails to identify God as one having free will.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 10:47 am
neologist wrote:
rosborne979 wrote:
neologist wrote:
"He who causes to become"...

... is limiting to the concept of God.

God should not be limited to being a "He" or a "Who", so a better phrase might be "That which causes to become".

And God should not be limited by causality, so "causes to become" also doesn't really do the concept justice.

The phrase really should be "That which is".
The Hebrews referred to Jehovah as 'he' not only to show his position of headship (as in the Jewish family arrangement), but also to identify him as a person.

God can not be a person. It's a GOD. Those two things will never be the same.

neologist wrote:
Your distillation, although cute, fails to identify God as one having free will.

Yet none the less, the logic of the distillation leads inevitably to "That which is". Free will is also an illusion of causality, something which should not concern That which Is.

Your concept of God seems very restricted. You are applying your own human concepts and rules to it and trying to bind it to them. That seems ass-backwards to me.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 03:00 pm
Bassackward would include limiting the power of God to act as he pleases.

I admit the following as both assertion and challenge. Without free will, the entire concept of a creator is meaningless.

My claim is that God is a person is not without merit or historical basis. I am not implying that he is human, after all.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 04:32 pm
rosborne979 wrote:

The classic "I can't comprehend it, so it must be impossible" argument. A thought process resulting in "I give up, it must be magic". How pitiful.

If thought processes like that had been the best our ancestors could do, our civilization wouldn't even exist and we would still be wandering around gathering fire from magic lightning strikes from from heaven.

Thank god some humans possess the desire to actually explore the world and understand things, or we would still be animals.


Ros:

"The classic "I can't comprehend it, so it must be impossible" argument... Do you mean the same way you view the possibility of God? :wink:

I saw the movie and enjoyed it. Talking about the close-mindedness and emotion-based position of the scientific majority was classic.

The correlation between Hitler and Darwin was also interesting.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 10:17 pm
baddog1 wrote:
"The classic "I can't comprehend it, so it must be impossible" argument... Do you mean the same way you view the possibility of God?

I don't consider God to be impossible, at least not my version of God Smile

I do consider the biblical version of God (old man with beard who behaves like a person) to be too nonsensical and cartoonish to be possible.

Which version of God are you talking about, mine, yours, the bible's, or one of the billions of other versions out there?
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 12:08 am
The classic "I can't comprehend it, so it must be impossible" argument is no more sensible than the "I have a comprehension of a God ERGO it must be possible."
To me the theistic conception of God is personally incomprehensible. Ergo I ignore it. But I do so not because I have or can prove its lack of merit; I ignore it only because it does nothing for me. It is a waste of my intellectual and spiritual time.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 06:15 am
rosborne979 wrote:
I don't consider God to be impossible, at least not my version of God Smile Describe your version of God.

I do consider the biblical version of God (old man with beard who behaves like a person) to be too nonsensical and cartoonish to be possible. Right - you've made your position clear about God. It's the same general position (as shared by the science community and the position that Stein is calling out.)

Which version of God are you talking about, mine, yours, the bible's, or one of the billions of other versions out there? Billions? Laughing My choice is God of the Bible.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 06:17 am
JLNobody wrote:
The classic "I can't comprehend it, so it must be impossible" argument is no more sensible than the "I have a comprehension of a God ERGO it must be possible."
To me the theistic conception of God is personally incomprehensible. Ergo I ignore it. But I do so not because I have or can prove its lack of merit; I ignore it only because it does nothing for me. It is a waste of my intellectual and spiritual time.


You don't ignore the theistic concept of God. (Otherwise we would not be having this conversation. :wink: )
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 07:52 am
JLNobody wrote:
The classic "I can't comprehend it, so it must be impossible" argument is no more sensible than the "I have a comprehension of a God ERGO it must be possible."
To me the theistic conception of God is personally incomprehensible. Ergo I ignore it. But I do so not because I have or can prove its lack of merit; I ignore it only because it does nothing for me. It is a waste of my intellectual and spiritual time.

I agree. It's a dead thought process which provides nothing and leads nowhere.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:02 am
Yes, Ros, for us it IS a "dead thought process", taking us nowhere. I believe it was, in part, this fact that led Neitzsche to declare the death of "God" (meaning, I believe, the end of the concept's utility and cultural legitimacy)*
But I see that there are STILL many people who attach to their notion of a diety. Neitzsche referred to this phenomenon as living in the SHADOW of a (dead) god.

*compared, for example, to its power during the European Middle Ages for assigning authority to political and religious hierachies.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 07:47 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Likewise Canis are all dog-like animals, yet are you saying that the wolf and coyote aren't different species? They both have muzzles, pointed ears, tails, four legs and fur. So they must be the same species.



Can they interbreed?
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