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Ben Stien's new movie EXSPELLED

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Apr, 2008 07:57 pm
FROM the ID Update. an article by Denise O'Leary
Quote:
Introduction: The Science of God - a Jewish physicist considers the design of the universe and life
by Denyse O'Leary
ARN correspondent

Contrary to legacy media scaremongers, intelligent design is not a "Christian" idea. Serious theists the world over have assumed - quite obviously - that the universe and life forms show evidence of design. Many agnostics agree.

The least theists expect of God is the ability to design and execute a universe. We divide into religions and sects on more immediately pressing subjects, such as whether God permits war, revenge, alcohol, polygamy, divorce, or married clergy.

Nineteenth century materialism created an intellectual market for theories that attempt to explain how the universe and life hoisted themselves into existence without design. "Many universes" and Darwinian evolution are the two most popular today. These theories are given vastly more weight than the evidence allows. And yet their enthusiastic, often fanatical backers wonder why the public remains skeptical.

Recently, I had a chance to read The Science of God: The Convergence of Scientific and Biblical Wisdom (New York, Free Press, 1997) by physicist Gerald Schroeder - a Jewish take on design in the universe.

Formerly at MIT, Schroeder - who now lives in Israel - was one of the people who helped convince highly respected atheist Antony Flew that, There IS a God, on account of design.

He starts off with the arresting question he was asked hundreds of times around the world: "If the Bible is true, why doesn't it mention dinosaurs?"

He doesn't answer that question directly or immediately. It is a difficult question to answer.

The questioner clearly supposes that if the Bible is reliable, it must provide an answer to every question about which we are curious, whether or not the answer is needed for a righteous life. If that is the questioner's standard, the Bible must seem very deficient indeed.

Schroeder uses the dinosaur query as a jumping off point, from which he argues that the design of nature is best understood in the light of the Book of Genesis - interpreted, of course, in the Jewish rather than the Christian tradition.

One thing that struck me about The Science of God: is that Schroeder admits freely and with no sense of angst - back in 1997! - that there is very little evidence for Darwinian evolution as a cause of origin of species. Yet here we are in this 2008-2009 season of ridiculous Darwin hagiography, and on the very eve of the Expelled documentary on the suppression of scientists who favour design as an explanation.

So why doesn't the monster just die?


I just love to see how this web page decided to "roll out" just prior to the ID movie's 1000 theater release.

Shroeder is dead wrong from an evidentiary basis.
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Thu 17 Apr, 2008 08:39 pm
I guess I will have to wait for the DVD version.
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farmerman
 
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Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 07:40 pm
Churches (Baptists mostly) are buying up huge blocks of tickets and planning "Swarms" to attend the movie. The theaters in LAncaster ,York, and DAuphin counties are only planning to show the movie for the next week and a half, just shy of MAy 1. The newspapers said that, when asked, the movie managers said that they had to "prepare for the summer blockbusters"

I have a feeling that science is being stifled by STeins cinematic spinning.
I dont think that the movie is being planned for big and lengthy releases. I have a feeling that the movie is being controlled to minimize an honest critique.

I guess Ill wait until the NCSE starts selling copies to schools. The pre-release showings have, for the most part, been uneventful except for that dust up in Minnesota where DAwkins was allowed in the theater but Meyers was not because he was a vocal critic of ID as science
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 03:55 am
georgeob1 wrote:
The eagerness of "anti IDers" to denounce a film they haven't yet seen, or to cite the pronouncements of the high priests of their particular beliefs
Wolf ODonnel wrote:
New Scientist, Richard Dawkins and others have all reviewed it. They have told me all there is to know about the movie...

tells us all we need to know about their scientific objectivity and quest for real understanding.


And what about theOrlando Sentinel's review or are you arguing that they're biased too?

How's about Scientific American, then? They're a real science magazine and they too find ID breathtakingly dishonest.

I mean just take a look at this Scientific American article. They even give six specific examples of how the film and/or its makers were dishonest.

And don't get me started on how Ben Stein (or whoever it was) consistently censored the movie's official blog of any comments that were critical of the movie.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 06:29 am
From a review by NewsHouse Services

Quote:
Typical of all propaganda, it also distorts language. The narration talks of "Darwinism" -- not evolution -- to make it sound like a dangerously secular cult; creationism is replaced by the more scientific-sounding "intelligent design." After an hour and a half, my faith in Darwin was shaken because, judging by what was on screen, we haven't evolved one blessed bit.


http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/movies/17856474.html
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 06:43 am
Oh and how about Colorado Confidential, or the New York Times?

Or even Fox News, which states:

Roger Friedman wrote:
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 07:44 am
I find that this ersatz learning from all the movie reviews is not compelling either. .
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 08:24 am
Very excellent film and an important one; I watched it last night and highly recommend it.

The film is about gangland tactics and the science mafia which rules American academia and even notes that Poland and other countries do not have the problem we do with allowing controversial new ideas to be discussed in classrooms.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 08:57 am
are there big blocks of tickets being marketed through churches in your area gunga?
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boomerang
 
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Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 09:06 am
Quote:
the problem we do with allowing controversial new ideas to be discussed in classrooms.


I don't have a problem with allowing controversial new ideas to be discussed in the classroom if it's the philosophy classroom or the theology classroom but I do have a problem with it when they try to teach it in the science classroom.
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rosborne979
 
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Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 09:14 am
gungasnake wrote:
Very excellent film and an important one; I watched it last night and highly recommend it.

Well, that's one big nail-in-the-coffin for Expelled. Glad to hear it.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 09:20 am
boomerang wrote:
Quote:
the problem we do with allowing controversial new ideas to be discussed in classrooms.


I don't have a problem with allowing controversial new ideas to be discussed in the classroom if it's the philosophy classroom or the theology classroom but I do have a problem with it when they try to teach it in the science classroom.


Exactly.
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gungasnake
 
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Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 11:07 am
farmerman wrote:
are there big blocks of tickets being marketed through churches in your area gunga?


Not to my knowledge. Last night was the first night showing at Merrifield and there were about 60 people there, not the biggest crowd you'd ever see but not the smallest either and word figures to spread.

This is a GOOD movie, which is rare these days since Hollywood doesn't produce many such any more.

One thing I'd hoped would be included but which they missed would have been an interview with that former lawyer of Caroline Crocker's. The stunt GM pulled in offering that guy's law firm a major university contract on condition they fire the guy was basically gangsterism.

One thing they did include which I was not aware of was an interview with a German historian who indicated that the kind of thing which you read about in connection with the holocaust during WW-II did not originate with the nazis but in fact came about some 20 or 30 years earlier than that with the eugenics movement, which was basically just evolution theory put to practice. All such things basically start with the idea of viewing your neighbor as a meat byproduct of stochastic events rather than as a fellow child of God.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 01:18 pm
You mean as a fellow child of Allah, or is it that by your view of god those neighbors of yours are meat byproducts.
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rosborne979
 
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Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 02:33 pm
gungasnake wrote:
One thing they did include which I was not aware of was an interview with a German historian who indicated that the kind of thing which you read about in connection with the holocaust during WW-II did not originate with the nazis but in fact came about some 20 or 30 years earlier than that with the eugenics movement, which was basically just evolution theory put to practice.

Evolution is an observation (of the way the natural world works), not a mandate, or even a suggestion (as to how human beings should behave).

gungasnake wrote:
All such things basically start with the idea of viewing your neighbor as a meat byproduct of stochastic events rather than as a fellow child of God.

The idea of evolution doesn't prevent anyone from viewing all of nature as God, and everything as a child of God. If only prevents people from viewing everyone as a fellow child of your God.
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farmerman
 
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Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 02:54 pm
gungasnake
Quote:
did not originate with the nazis but in fact came about some 20 or 30 years earlier than that with the eugenics movement, which was basically just evolution theory put to practice
, and the eugenics movement is an attempted linkage that Creationists now seem to want to hang on Evolution. Its no more accurate than stating that ID is "science"


However, this is the kind of discussion that should ensue, from personal experience. After all its entertainment , not an article for the literature.
Im just kind of amazed at how the showings are being sort of controlled (IMHO) here in the Central Pa theaters.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 05:36 pm
In today's news;

Brent Bozell wrote:
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 06:20 pm
This film is going to grab a lot of people the way it grabs Bozell; it is superbly well done. You can do a search on 'expelled' on FreeRepublic right now and pull up twenty or thirty separate threads; I don't think I've ever seen any one subject get that that much play on FR.

I'm predicting that the film is going to stick around a whole lot longer than the week and a half many film experts expect it to and could in fact win awards.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 09:03 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGCxbhGaVfE
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 10:15 pm
Quote:
Stein asks a simple question: What if the universe began with an intelligent designer, a designer named God?

Which continually begs the question, where did God come from and Who designed Him?
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