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Why did Obama stay in Rev. Wright's church?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2008 11:59 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
...either Obama or MicCain who of course is quite a bit right of Hillary though in my opinion he is quite a bit left of far right.


foxy, m'love... it is way to early in the day to hit me with one like this.

jeez, lemme get another cup o' joe in me first... Shocked Laughing


LOL, okay. Very Happy It isn't really important anyway and I'm not asking you to look it up. I was just explaining how I arrived at the perception I hold and know full well that my perception is often (usually?) different from almost everybody else.

Frankly I wish McCain was more conservative on more issues that are important to me, but I do trust him to at least be mostly honest and up front about where he stands on the issues. He has already caught hell from both leftwing and rightwing pundits, so I suppose he really can be a middle-of-the-road candidate to a lot of folks and most of us who are farther right of center will probably still vote for him.

Between Obama and Clinton, there isn't all that much difference between their stated views about issues, but I do believe she is the more ideologically moderate of the two if it turns out the Democrat gets elected this time. And at least she will stand up straight and shout out that she loves her country. I've never heard Obama do that.
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Mexica
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 11:40 am
I just seen a pretty lengthy video of some of the things Rev. Wright said, and it doesn't seem anti-white or even that it should be controversial. The US has exported "terrorism," that is they have killed civilians around the globe.

http://www.soychicano.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40466
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eoe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 12:03 pm
But we're not supposed to SAY IT.
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Mexica
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 12:23 pm
Can we type it out on our keyboards?
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 01:01 pm
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 01:23 pm
A little different version of that:

Quote:
April 24, 2008
Categories: Barack Obama

Wright's defense


Obama's former pastor speaks to Bill Moyers:

Mr. Wright, who has acted as Mr. Obama's spiritual mentor and retired in February as pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, said that he has never heard Mr. Obama repeat any of his controversial statements.

"Absolutely not," Mr. Wright said. "I don't talk to him about politics. And so he had a political event, he goes out as a politician and says what he has to say as a politician. I continue to be a pastor who speaks to the people of God about the things of God."

Mr. Obama publicly denounced Mr. Wright's remarks, a reaction Mr. Wright said "went down very simply."

"He's a politician, I'm a pastor," he said. "We speak to two different audiences. And he says what he has to say as a politician. I say what I have to say as a pastor. But they're two different worlds."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Wrights_defense.html
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 01:27 pm
The CIA confessed to complicity in drug running during Iran Contra. John Kerry took a great deal of testimony from witnesses including 20 some pilots who said they flew arms into Nicaragua and drugs into America working for Col. North who was working for Poppy Bush. Sen. Levin says most American banks are laundering drug money. That in a Senate Finance Committee report. Wright's charges of drug running are substantiated by heavy duty evidence. Of course our jails and prisons are filled to overflowing with non-violent drug offenders. The story of our prison systems makes Abu Ghraib look tame. As Rev. Wright says God damn that. And God Bless him for saying it.
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 01:45 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Assuming that Obama would be a far left ideologue--his voting record does suggest that could be the case--would you be really comfortable with that DTOM?


A far left idealogue based on what? Propaganda on his voting record by a FAR RIGHT WING publication? Only extremists on the right would accuse Obama of being far left. And I suspect that he will govern toward the middle as it will be necessary to build consensuses.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 02:34 pm
God damn this about drug running too, "In July 1994, in the Arkansas Crime Inc. paper, an editorial linked Clinton to Iran-Contra. In October, 1994 Clinton denied any knowledge of the operation at Mena. Shortly afterwards evidence started to surface that documented Clinton's link to Iran-Contra. People began coming forward and alleging under sworn statements that that Clinton profited from the operation at Mena by laundering money through the newly created Arkansas Development Finance Authority. That was just the tip of the iceberg regarding what was really going on at Mena. A larger number of people testified under oath that the airplanes returning from Central America were loaded with cocaine, which was then dropped over Arkansas for distribution to larger U.S. cities." http://www.dldewey.com/columns/menaf.htm And this, July 12, 2000, Peter Dale Scott asks:

"PLEASE HELP STOP CONGRESSWOMAN PELOSI FROM KILLING THE CIA-DRUG STORY"

Berkeley - In May 2000, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, a liberal Democrat, participated in a shameless attempt to stop public interest in the CIAÕs use and protection of drug-traffickers supporting the Nicaraguan Contras. If you did not know this, please read the attached op-ed and analysis of a Report released in May by the House Permanent Select Committee (HPSCI), on which she serves.

If you agree that she should now repudiate the Report, please let her know. As this is written, in July 2000, the U.S. is drifting into a protracted war in Colombia, a war all too like the Vietnam War in its early stages. Rep. Pelosi herself recently warned that ClintonÕs $1.6 billion aid plan will lead the United States into "a five- to 10-year commitment, which will cost U.S. taxpayers in excess of $5 billion." Many observers envisage a much more costly scenario, not only in dollars but in lives.

Congresswoman Pelosi needs to be persuaded that it is thus a matter of life and death to undermine the ideological underpinnings of this so-called War on Drugs. One of the best ways to do this is to expose, rather than dishonestly bury, the CIAÕs recurring habit of allying itself with drug-traffickers.

The HPSCI Report is a dishonest piece of propaganda, transmitting lies easily disproven. It purports to be based on two earlier investigative reports by CIA Inspector-General Frederick Hitz. However, compared to it, the Hitz reports are relatively candid, casting needed light on the CIA-drug problem which Pelosi herself has deemed to be important. Pelosi may not have realized all this when she let the Report be released without dissent.

But what will she do now? Will she represent the needs of the CIA or of her electorate? If the latter, how will she challenge the cover-up she signed on to?

Will Pelosi repudiate the HPSCI Report?

Will Pelosi press for an open hearing on the second Hitz Report, something originally promised by the Committee but never provided?

Will Pelosi press for a fuller release of Hitz II? As released in redacted form, Hitz II has only one page on Southern Air Transport, a former CIA proprietary which was in the DEA database for suspected smuggling? Many have suspected a major scandal here which the CIA is still trying to hide.

Was Pelosi aware that John Millis, HPSCI chief of staff when the CommitteeÕs report was prepared and released, was a CIA veteran who for thirteen years worked with and supplied the heroin-smuggling mujahedeen in Afghanistan? (At least one of the suspect airlines supplying these mujahedeen, Global International, was also involved in Iran-Contra.)

If Pelosi was aware of this conflict of interest, will she apologize? If not, will she expose Chairman Porter Goss, another CIA veteran, for so brazenly putting the interests of the CIA ahead of those of Congress and the American people?

Up to now, Nancy Pelosi and her Washington and San Francisco offices have refused to answer repeated phone calls and FAXes on this question. This is where you can make a difference, whether or not you are a voter in her Eighth District in San Francisco. Please contact her and let her know your concern, preferably in your own words.

She can be reached by email at [email protected] Her office phone numbers are (415) 556-4862 (San Francisco) or, preferably (202) 225-4965 (Washington).

Peter Dale Scott, Ph.D.

University of California
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rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 02:45 pm
Someone correct me if Im mistaken but I thought that Iran contra was a Ronny Reagan enterprise, not a Clinton one. Here we go with conserative history spin again.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 02:57 pm
rabel22 wrote:
Someone correct me if Im mistaken but I thought that Iran contra was a Ronny Reagan enterprise, not a Clinton one. Here we go with conserative history spin again.


Umm Blueflame didn't specify an administration for Iran Contra though he did get a lot of that wrong and doesn't usually post any credible links to support the stuff he says. But in nobody's wildest imagination would blueflame be accused of 'conservative history spin'. He hasn't had even a non-hateful, much less complimentary word to say about a conservative or a Republican that I've ever seen. Smile
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 03:03 pm
foxfyre wrote:
doesn't usually post any credible links to support the stuff he (she) says.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 03:06 pm
rabel22 wrote:
Someone correct me if Im mistaken but I thought that Iran contra was a Ronny Reagan enterprise, not a Clinton one. Here we go with conserative history spin again.


yep (along with oliver north and his hot, shredding babe, fawn hall). as was "saddam gassing his own people (the kurds)" in 1988. as was u.s. backing of saddam in it's war against iran...

there's been a lot of romanticizing about the reagan years. he wasn't as bad as some make him out to be, but he was far from perfect.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Apr, 2008 03:10 pm
Iran/Contra was a Reagan/Bush administration thing. But Clinton has a lot to answer for there with his Mena connections. As for Nancy Pelosi she swept evidence aside like it didn't matter. Levin's report implicates America's banking system in laundering drug money. Rev. Wright has plenty evidence to back up his drug running accusations. I hope Bill Moyers gives him a chance to show America what he has to make him make such accusations. 02-05-2001 - Levin Shows How U.S. Banks Are Used to Launder Drug ... link
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2008 01:38 pm
I'm going to back down and apologize for an unnecessary ad hominem reference to Blueflame yesterday. I confused him with another member with 'blue' in his name and Blueflame is undeserving of the uncomplimentary remark I made. I still won't agree that he argues from right of center though, so I still think Rabel's criticism of him was wrong. Smile

Anyhow sorry Blueflame. You didn't not deserve the comment I made.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 02:21 am
Telling choices in the survey
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 07:42 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Telling choices in the survey


Explain please.

___________________
And meanwhile I have wondered how much different the answers would be if the question had been:

Poll :: Why do people stay in John Hagee's church?

Poll :: Why do people stay in Jerry Falwell's church?

Poll :: Why do people stay in Pat Robertson's ministry?

I'm betting that a lot of the answers would be that the only people who would stay in these churches would be people who mostly agreed with the controversial pastors. Hell, John McCain has been thoroughly trashed for simply accepting an endorsement from a controversial pastor of a mega church when he had absolutely no affiliation with the church or the pastor.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 11:40 am
Foxfyre wrote:
... Hell, John McCain has been thoroughly trashed for simply accepting an endorsement from a controversial pastor of a mega church when he had absolutely no affiliation with the church or the pastor.


see? there's a very good reason to keep a separation between church and state.

or as the christ said; "render unto caesar what is caesar's and unto god the things that are god's".
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 11:52 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
... Hell, John McCain has been thoroughly trashed for simply accepting an endorsement from a controversial pastor of a mega church when he had absolutely no affiliation with the church or the pastor.


see? there's a very good reason to keep a separation between church and state.

or as the christ said; "render unto caesar what is caesar's and unto god the things that are god's".


But allowing Christians (or other people of faith) to vote is not considered a violation of church and state. And if those people of faith make up an important constituency of the base, a politician is generally not going to write off 10,000 or so potential votes or a much larger television audience by refusing the endorsement of their pastor even if he is considered by some to be controversial. Nor is it considered a violation of church and state principles for the politician to ask for such an endorsement.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 12:12 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
... Hell, John McCain has been thoroughly trashed for simply accepting an endorsement from a controversial pastor of a mega church when he had absolutely no affiliation with the church or the pastor.


see? there's a very good reason to keep a separation between church and state.

or as the christ said; "render unto caesar what is caesar's and unto god the things that are god's".


But allowing Christians (or other people of faith) to vote is not considered a violation of church and state. ...Nor is it considered a violation of church and state principles for the politician to ask for such an endorsement.


right. any citizen can vote.

politicians can ask for, accept or reject any endorsement. so i guess that it's up to the politician to weigh whether or not, in this case, getting 10,000 votes from someone like hagee could cost him 10,000 (or more) other votes. in which case, his net would be zero from the transaction.

in my view, the overarching injecting of religion (which is what it is, though people like to use the word faith) into the political realm over the last 20 years has severely hurt the country. rather than bring people together it has served more as a source of further division.

there was more than enough of that before with 2 major parties and a couple of viable minors.

but considering that with in the church system there are serious and acrimonious differences (taking the baptist denomination for example), it's not logical that adding religion to the mix would do anything other than create a lack of american unity.

before "in god we trust", there was "e pluribus unum". i just believe that it is a much better way to keep a country together.
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