Is God Real

faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. (Edit: see "wishy", as in wishful thinking).
belief - Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity (Edit: see "washy", as in brain washing).

You ask "Why is non-logic illogical?" I'm not sure. Maybe it has to do with logic. Or that squishy sound that tells me I just lost my brain participating in theism.

Also, think about what a conclusion is. An ending. No more thinking occurs. How logical is it to stop thinking? Belief should not be black and white, on or off, all or nothing.

Taking something on faith (without digging into the evidence) or believing something (without staying open to opposing theories) seems a bit closed-minded and presumptuous. Why pursue any project that involves losing my mind?

Knowledge constantly changes and adjusts to new information but faith and belief are not founded on evidence. They don't participate in the logical process.

A logical creature does not believe in anything, and merely works with hypotheses and models that are constantly growing and adjusting. He never clings to one idea and maintains that it is fully true and irrevocable. There are no definite pronouncements in science, just rough estimates of accuracy, reproducability, and what useful predictions might be drawn from the working model.

Those religions that *rely* on faith and belief for their survival seem to be more about blind repetition and acceptance. Good for sheep and power-mongers. Bad for individuals.

I might be wrong -- except there's no such thing as correct and incorrect! It's just a working model with varying degrees of usefulness, and it works pretty well for me. Logic is a funny thing.

Begging the question once again.

Homework: Go back to a logic dictionary or manual, and look in the index what it means to beg the question.

Then come back and try again.

:wink:

maliagar,

You use those definitions very loosely. I'd like to challange you to a debate in the debate room. Just you and me.

You game?

If you remove faith and belief from theism, then what have you got?

Aren't you assuming that there is "logic of the theists"?

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Answering my two questions with two questions?

Actually his two questions were a fine answer to yours and address your points like a train. That's why you are reduced to pointing out what kind of sentence they are instead of addressing them.

Seemed to have missed out on this thread, it sounds interesting. I had no idea philosophy was such a messy business though, squash squidge and all. What in polite philosophical circles does one do with the empty grape skins?