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What will you like most about the McCain Presidency?

 
 
doglover
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 08:02 am
I wonder if McCain ever called him Mom a trollop or the C word.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 08:14 am
woiyo wrote:
blatham wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
So it comes down to insulting McCain's mom?

wow.


Well, you can't really insult his pappy. Pappy was military. That's sacred.


Why do either of them need to be insulted? If you can not argue McCains policy, attack his mom? Rolling Eyes



It is pretty crass for McBush to use his mother in this manner.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 08:25 am
Advocate wrote:
woiyo wrote:
blatham wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
So it comes down to insulting McCain's mom?

wow.


Well, you can't really insult his pappy. Pappy was military. That's sacred.


Why do either of them need to be insulted? If you can not argue McCains policy, attack his mom? Rolling Eyes



It is pretty crass for McBush to use his mother in this manner.


Why? did you offer the same criticism of Mrs. Bill Clinton when she used her Mom in a TV ad?
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 08:26 am
doglover wrote:
I wonder if McCain ever called him Mom a trollop or the C word.


If he did, then he would have something in common with you I suppose. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 09:34 am
One thing there might be to like about a McCain presidency is less hostility from the press as he is about the only media darling the Republicans have. Of course it remains to be seen whether that holds up in the general election when the Democrat and Republican face off exclusively against each other.

So, who has the media edge?
By Todd Domke
April 10, 2008
TWO MEDIA DARLINGS are likely to soon face off - John McCain and Barack Obama.

Clinton attacks Obama and McCain over Iraq
Clinton: Voters can 'count on me' to end war
But, torn between two lovers, who will the media favor?

Most reporters will vote for Obama, but will they slant their coverage for him? They didn't do much for Al Gore or John Kerry against George W. Bush ("Who would you rather have a beer with?").

Yes, there will be media bias, but how much and what kind?

Since politics is more art than science, let's artfully estimate the Media Bias Quotient in this contest. Rate how biased you think reporters will be on 10 things they value in a candidate. (For example: Whose oratory do they prefer? McCain, 15 percent; Obama, 85 percent.)

Story: Journalists take pride in writing "the first draft of history." Which story would they rather cover - election of the first black president or of the oldest white guy yet?

Media Bias Quotient: McCain, 10 percent; Obama, 90 percent.

Quote-worthy: Obama's soaring rhetoric often fails as a sound-bite. "We live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join me as we try to change it." McCain often uses a sledgehammer to nail a point: "Washington is a Hollywood for ugly people. Hollywood is a Washington for the simple-minded." Brevity is the soul of a witty sound-bite.

McCain, 60 percent; Obama, 40 percent.

Excitement: Obama fans sometimes faint at his rallies. McCain fans may appear to have fainted, but they just fell asleep. However, once McCain locks horns with Obama, his rallies will become more rousing and newsworthy.

McCain, 25 percent; Obama, 75 percent.

Humor: Journalists are reverent about irreverence. They hear so much propaganda they cherish quips that expose absurd truths. They relate to McCain's subversive irony and self-deprecating wit ("I'm older than dirt and have more scars than Frankenstein"). Obama can be amusing but he doesn't engage in the mischief and teasing that most reporters enjoy.

McCain, 75 percent; Obama, 25 percent.

Oratory: Obama's phenomenal success as a candidate is largely due to his oratory. And he's a master of the TelePrompter, making it seem like he isn't using one. McCain looks like he's using one even when he isn't.

McCain, 15 percent; Obama, 85 percent.

Access: "Whereas (McCain) relishes lengthy on-the-record bull sessions with the media, Obama generally does not," reported Michael Calderone of Politico.com. Obama bolted from a news conference when reporters asked about the indictment of a friend, Tony Rezko. When McCain held a news conference to deny an improper relationship with a lobbyist, he remained until there were no more questions.

McCain, 85 percent; Obama, 15 percent.

Anti-establishment: Journalists prefer mavericks to insiders. Both candidates qualify as such. Reporters like to imagine McCain rattling the GOP establishment and the Democratic Congress, but they believe Obama could change the public's view of government and the world's view of America.

McCain, 40 percent; Obama, 60 percent.

Visuals: A picture is worth a thousand words, and if it goes viral it's worth even more. Obama has become a paparazzi-worthy celeb. Even when he's bowling gutterballs, television editors consider the footage mesmerizing. But when people see McCain on TV they usually just remark on how old he looks. Actually, McCain looks better at 71 than Lincoln did at 56. But candidates didn't use makeup then.

McCain, 20 percent; Obama, 80 percent.

Debate/conflict: Neither candidate is an exceptional debater. McCain will be more substantive, and more sarcastic (like when he zinged Mitt Romney as a flip-flopper: "I agree that you are the candidate of change"). Obama needs 30 seconds of wind-up before he makes a pitch. But he should score higher on style and inspiration.

McCain, 55 percent; Obama, 45 percent.

Cool: McCain is old-school cool, but he's been upstaged. Obama is cool and charismatic. Hip stars like Scarlett Johansson and John Legend joined The Black-Eyed Peas to create a pro-Obama video. McCain's lagging hipness was evident in a jibe by Conan O'Brien: "McCain announced he had 20 names on his vice president list. Unfortunately, most of them are characters on 'Matlock.' "

McCain, 25 percent; Obama, 75 percent.

TOTAL AVERAGE: McCain, 41 percent; Obama, 59 percent.

That's good for a Republican.

Incidentally, the Media Bias Quotient for Hillary Clinton is 27 percent to Obama's 73 percent. She probably thinks it's worse, but she's biased.

Todd Domke is a Boston area Republican political analyst, public relations strategist, and author.
LINK
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 11:03 am
McCain is campaigning as the Iraq president; according to a latest poll, most Americans want troops out within a year. (Far cry from a 100 even if in those 100 years no American troops are killed.) All Obama has to do is too keep honing this point home and he has got a good chance in beating McCain even on the "leadership qualities."

Quote:
A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 65% of Americans would like to see U.S. troops brought home from Iraq within a year. That's the highest total recorded in the tracking poll which has been conducted regularly since August of last year. The 65% total is up six points from two weeks ago, but just a single point higher than the total from a month ago.

Twenty-six percent (26%) want the troops brought home immediately, up three points from the last survey.

Looking at the other end of the spectrum, 31% want troops to remain in Iraq until the mission is complete. That figure has ranged from 31% to 39% since tracking began.

The survey also found that 32% believe the troop "surge" has worked while 43% disagree and say it has not. Sixty-one percent (61%) of Republicans say the surge has worked. Fifty-nine percent (59%) of Democrats say it has not along with 51% of those not affiliated with either major party.

The desire to bring home the troops has risen among both men and women. Fifty-nine percent (59%) of men want the troops home within a year, up four points from two weeks ago. Among women, that total is 69%, up from 62% two weeks ago.

On the other side, 37% of men would like the troops to stay in Iraq until the mission is complete along with 26% of women.

Sixty-two percent (62%) of Republicans want to see the troops stay in Iraq until the mission is complete. Among Democrats, 86% would like to see the troops brought home within a year.

In late March, almost half (47%) of Likely Voters believe the U.S. and its allies are winning the War on Terror. Twenty percent (20%) disagree and say the terrorists are winning.

The survey was conducted in partnership with Fox Television Stations, Inc.

This telephone survey of 1,000 Adults was conducted by Rasmussen Reports in partnership with FOX Television Stations, Inc. on April 1-2, 2008. The margin of sampling error for the survey is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.


source
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 11:38 am
revel wrote:
McCain is campaigning as the Iraq president; according to a latest poll, most Americans want troops out within a year. (Far cry from a 100 even if in those 100 years no American troops are killed.) All Obama has to do is too keep honing this point home and he has got a good chance in beating McCain even on the "leadership qualities."

Quote:
A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 65% of Americans would like to see U.S. troops brought home from Iraq within a year. That's the highest total recorded in the tracking poll which has been conducted regularly since August of last year. The 65% total is up six points from two weeks ago, but just a single point higher than the total from a month ago.

Twenty-six percent (26%) want the troops brought home immediately, up three points from the last survey.

Looking at the other end of the spectrum, 31% want troops to remain in Iraq until the mission is complete. That figure has ranged from 31% to 39% since tracking began.

The survey also found that 32% believe the troop "surge" has worked while 43% disagree and say it has not. Sixty-one percent (61%) of Republicans say the surge has worked. Fifty-nine percent (59%) of Democrats say it has not along with 51% of those not affiliated with either major party.

The desire to bring home the troops has risen among both men and women. Fifty-nine percent (59%) of men want the troops home within a year, up four points from two weeks ago. Among women, that total is 69%, up from 62% two weeks ago.

On the other side, 37% of men would like the troops to stay in Iraq until the mission is complete along with 26% of women.

Sixty-two percent (62%) of Republicans want to see the troops stay in Iraq until the mission is complete. Among Democrats, 86% would like to see the troops brought home within a year.

In late March, almost half (47%) of Likely Voters believe the U.S. and its allies are winning the War on Terror. Twenty percent (20%) disagree and say the terrorists are winning.

The survey was conducted in partnership with Fox Television Stations, Inc.

This telephone survey of 1,000 Adults was conducted by Rasmussen Reports in partnership with FOX Television Stations, Inc. on April 1-2, 2008. The margin of sampling error for the survey is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.


source


Not if Obama can not detail the impact of his decision. McCain will surely point the impact out and I wonder what Obama will come back with,
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 11:51 am
Obama can come back with pointing out that the cost of staying there out weighs the cost of leaving as we are stretching our military readiness and leaving ourselves at risk in other areas. Yesterday Crocker was forced to admit that Pakistan poses more a threat than Iraq.

Quote:
SEN. BIDEN: Mr. Ambassador, is Al Qaeda a greater threat to US interests in Iraq, or in the Afghan-Pakistan border region? … Which would you pick, Mr. Ambassador?

AMB. CROCKER: I would therefore pick Al Qaeda in the Pakistan-Afghanistan border area.


video at the source
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 11:53 am
woiyo wrote:
blatham wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
So it comes down to insulting McCain's mom?

wow.


Well, you can't really insult his pappy. Pappy was military. That's sacred.


Why do either of them need to be insulted? If you can not argue McCains policy, attack his mom? Rolling Eyes


How about if we just acknowledge that McCain's mom is completely irrelevant to any consideration as to McCain's fitness or policies?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 12:07 pm
Quote:
Not if Obama can not detail the impact of his decision. McCain will surely point the impact out and I wonder what Obama will come back with,


Neither of them can "detail the impact" of their decisions as regards what will happen in Iraq over the next year or five years.

It's actually an easier task for Obama because their are highly certain trends like taxpayer expenditures, loss of American lives, loss of Iraqi lives, etc. That's not what you meant, but those are prime considerations for most American citizens and it's very easy for him to bring those realities into the discussion and talk about what elese those tax dollars would buy, what it means to the families who don't lose their sons/daughters, etc.

But there are no certainties on what will happen if troops stay at present levels or if they are drawn down. Certainty here is the province of the ideologue and the stupid.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 12:26 pm
Quote:


Quote-worthy: ... "Washington is a Hollywood for ugly people. Hollywood is a Washington for the simple-minded."


McCain, Bush, Cheney, Feith, etc. stand as sure proof that that quote is a lie.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:38 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
Not if Obama can not detail the impact of his decision. McCain will surely point the impact out and I wonder what Obama will come back with,


Neither of them can "detail the impact" of their decisions as regards what will happen in Iraq over the next year or five years.

It's actually an easier task for Obama because their are highly certain trends like taxpayer expenditures, loss of American lives, loss of Iraqi lives, etc. That's not what you meant, but those are prime considerations for most American citizens and it's very easy for him to bring those realities into the discussion and talk about what elese those tax dollars would buy, what it means to the families who don't lose their sons/daughters, etc.

But there are no certainties on what will happen if troops stay at present levels or if they are drawn down. Certainty here is the province of the ideologue and the stupid.


Your arrogance again is showing through.

Basically, you nor anyone else really has a clue as to what will happen either way. If we pull out, they is a good chance more Iraqis will die due to insurgant violence. If we stay, less Iraqis may die but US Soldiers will be in harms way.

Obama has not reasoned his position out as to the long term impact of his choice. I await his informed opinion.

You seem to be the only ideologue here, stupid.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:45 pm
Quote:
Basically, you nor anyone else really has a clue as to what will happen either way.


Quote:
Obama has not reasoned his position out as to the long term impact of his choice. I await his informed opinion.


You are going to need a very good engineer to build a bridge between these two statements.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 03:23 pm
woiyo wrote:
blatham wrote:
Quote:
Not if Obama can not detail the impact of his decision. McCain will surely point the impact out and I wonder what Obama will come back with,


Neither of them can "detail the impact" of their decisions as regards what will happen in Iraq over the next year or five years.

It's actually an easier task for Obama because their are highly certain trends like taxpayer expenditures, loss of American lives, loss of Iraqi lives, etc. That's not what you meant, but those are prime considerations for most American citizens and it's very easy for him to bring those realities into the discussion and talk about what elese those tax dollars would buy, what it means to the families who don't lose their sons/daughters, etc.

But there are no certainties on what will happen if troops stay at present levels or if they are drawn down. Certainty here is the province of the ideologue and the stupid.


Your arrogance again is showing through.

Basically, you nor anyone else really has a clue as to what will happen either way. If we pull out, they is a good chance more Iraqis will die due to insurgant violence. If we stay, less Iraqis may die but US Soldiers will be in harms way.

Obama has not reasoned his position out as to the long term impact of his choice. I await his informed opinion.

You seem to be the only ideologue here, stupid.


Actually if you had read the transcript of Obama questions to Petraeus you would see that he does lay out long term impact of choices.

Quote:
With respect to Al Qaida in Iraq, it's already been noted they were not there before we went in, but they certainly were there last year and they continue to have a presence there now.

Should we be successful in Mosul, should you continue, General, with the effective operations that you've been engaged in, assuming that in that narrow military effort we are successful, do we anticipate that there ever comes a time where Al Qaida in Iraq could not reconstitute itself?

GENERAL PETRAEUS: Well, I think the question, Senator, is whether Iraqi security forces over time, with much less help, could deal with their efforts to reconstitute. I think it's...

SENATOR OBAMA: That's my point.

GENERAL PETRAEUS: I think it's a given that Al Qaida-Iraq will try to reconstitute just as any movement of that type does try to reconstitute. And the question is whether...

SENATOR OBAMA:I don't mean -- don't mean to interrupt you, but I just want to sharpen the question so that -- because I think you're getting right at my point here.

I mean, if one of our criteria for success is ensuring that Al Qaida does not have a base of operations in Iraq, I just want to harden a little bit the metrics by which we're measuring that.

At what point do we say they cannot reconstitute themselves or are we saying that they're not going to be particularly effective and the Iraqis, themselves, will be able to handle the situation?

GENERAL PETRAEUS: I think it's really the latter, Senator, that, again, if you can keep chipping away at them, chipping away at their leadership, chipping away at the resources, that comprehensive approach that I mentioned, that, over time -- and we are reaching that in some other areas already.


Quote:
SENATOR OBAMA:That's not a decision you gentlemen made. I won't lay it at your feet. You are cleaning up the mess afterwards. But I think it is important as we debate this forward.

I also think that the surge has reduced violence and provided breathing room, but that breathing room has not been taken the way we would all like it to be taken. And I think what happened in Basra is an example of Shia versus Shia jockeying for power that underscores how complicated the political situation is there and how we still have to continue to work vigorously to resolve it.

I believe that we are more likely to resolve it, in your own words, Ambassador, if we are applying increased pressure in a measured way. I think that increased pressure in a measured way, in my mind -- and this is where we disagree -- includes a timetable for withdrawal.

Nobody's asking for a precipitous withdrawal, but I do think that it has to be a measured but increased pressure; and a diplomatic surge that includes Iran. Because if Maliki can tolerate as normal neighbor-to-neighbor relations in Iran, then we should be talking to them as well. I do not believe we're going to be able to stabilize the position without them.

Just last point I will make. Our resources are finite. And this has been made -- this is a point that just was made by Senator Voinovich, it's been made by Senator Biden, Senator Lugar, Senator Hagel. There's a bipartisan consensus that we have finite resources. Our military is overstretched, and the Pentagon has acknowledged it.

The amount of money that we are spending is hemorrhaging our budget, and Al Qaida in Afghanistan I think is feeling a lot more secure as long as we're focused in Iraq and not on Afghanistan.

When you have finite resources, you've got to define your goals tightly and modestly.

SENATOR OBAMA: And so my final -- and I'll even pose this as a question and I won't -- you don't necessarily have to answer it -- maybe it's a rhetorical question -- if we were able to have the status quo in Iraq right now without U.S. troops, would that be a sufficient definition of success?

It's obviously not perfect. There's still violence, there's still some traces of Al Qaida, Iran has influence more than we would like. But if we had the current status quo, and yet our troops had been drawn down to 30,000, would we consider that a success? Would that meet our criteria, or would that not be good enough and we'd have to devote even more resources to it?

AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Senator, I can't imagine the current status quo being sustainable with that kind of precipitous drawdown.

SENATOR BIDEN: That wasn't the question.

SENATOR OBAMA: No, no, that wasn't the question. I'm not suggesting that we yank all our troops out all the way. I'm trying to get to an endpoint. That's what all of us have been trying to get to.

And, see, the problem I have is if the definition of success is so high, no traces of Al Qaida and no possibility of reconstitution, a highly-effective Iraqi government, a Democratic multiethnic, multi- sectarian functioning democracy, no Iranian influence, at least not of the kind that we don't like, then that portends the possibility of us staying for 20 or 30 years.

If, on the other hand, our criteria is a messy, sloppy status quo but there's not, you know, huge outbreaks of violence, there's still corruption, but the country is struggling along, but it's not a threat to its neighbors and it's not an Al Qaida base, that seems to me an achievable goal within a measurable timeframe, and that, I think, is what everybody here on this committee has been trying to drive at, and we haven't been able to get as clear of an answer as we would like.




http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/09/america/09petraeus-transcript.php?page=5

So we already know that as of now Pakistan is more threat from AQ than is Iraq. And from Petraues response to Obama's statement; we know that at any time AQ can reconstitute itself in Iraq. If we keep hammering away at the little remaining AQ in Iraq by this time next year we should be in as good as a place as we will ever will be.

Ten years from now we will probably be little better than we are right now politically unless Iraqis are pressured by the threat of a timetable to work on their political differences. Or they may never work out their political differences and may very well just settle into different provinces which I think in the end will happen. And if we left and AQ started getting a base in Iraq (which I don't they will because Iraqis have shown they can reject AQ if they want to); we could handle it the way we do other places right now; either ignoring it or bombing places where we know they are at with the permission of Iraq. (Or without if there is a direct immediate threat to our country.)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 05:47 am
Merely the latest in a long string of soul-mortgaging flip flops from John. Of course, it's not as if he's alone in this electoral maneuver, he's just wayyyy ahead in the count. I mean, next to Kerry, it's rather like Kerry is frozen solid in a pond of winter ice while John (in fancy white figure skates) does solkows and filligrees, sending enough ice chips flying to fill a hundred of those pink girly drinks.

Quote:
McCain Reverses Himself on Mortgage Position

By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: April 11, 2008
Senator John McCain, who drew criticism last month after he warned against broad government intervention to solve the deepening mortgage crisis, pivoted Thursday and called for the federal government to aid some homeowners in danger of losing their homes, by helping them to refinance and get federally guaranteed 30-year mortgages.

"There is nothing more important than keeping alive the American dream to own your home, and priority No. 1 is to keep well-meaning, deserving homeowners who are facing foreclosure in their homes," Mr. McCain said in a speech on economic themes that he gave at a window company in the Bay Ridge section of Brooklyn.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/us/politics/11mccain.html
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 05:46 pm
The election may as well just be held between Obama and Clinton 'cause McSwing is toast.

Quote:


A Republican National Committee spokesperson insisted that age is not a concern because voters associate McCain with "judgment, character, vision and leadership."



God, isn't that hilarity on the grandest of scales. Yeah, voters like Tico, McG, Foxy, Okie; the ones who would attribute those same characteristics to, you know who.

Quote:


The dreaded septuagenarian issue
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2008 10:41 am
Your right blatham there is a odd disconnect with voters who want to pull out of Iraq as soon as possible but still voting for McCain at higher numbers than Obama and Clinton.

McCain seeking to assure Americans, "I detest war"

Quote:
"A significant number of Americans believe we should come home with honor, not with disgrace and genocide," he told reporters on his campaign bus recently.


Quote:
Tuesday, April 08, 2008

A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 65% of Americans would like to see U.S. troops brought home from Iraq within a year. That's the highest total recorded in the tracking poll which has been conducted regularly since August of last year. The 65% total is up six points from two weeks ago, but just a single point higher than the total from a month ago.


source

Quote:
Monday, April 14, 2008

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows John McCain leading Barack Obama, 49% to 42%. The presumptive Republican nominee also leads Hillary Clinton 47% to 43%. Daily tracking results are updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time (see recent general election results).


source
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2008 10:48 am
There is no disconnect on part of intelligent voters.

They can clearly see that Obama has no experience nor credibility in areas that are important to this country and Mrs. Bill Clinton is a liar an a fraud.

McCain, regardless of your agreement with his positions or not, is a honest man and a viable candidate and the best choice of the 3 for Commander in Chief.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2008 10:53 am
woiyo wrote:
There is no disconnect on part of intelligent voters.

They can clearly see that Obama has no experience nor credibility in areas that are important to this country and Mrs. Bill Clinton is a liar an a fraud.

McCain, regardless of your agreement with his positions or not, is a honest man and a viable candidate and the best choice of the 3 for Commander in Chief.


Hopefully things will turn around before the general election comes around. I think (my own particular opinion) when or if Obama and McCain debate side by side; Obama will come off the better hands down.

But there is a disconnect between voters voting for McCain while at the same time wanting troops home.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2008 12:22 pm
revel wrote:
woiyo wrote:
There is no disconnect on part of intelligent voters.

They can clearly see that Obama has no experience nor credibility in areas that are important to this country and Mrs. Bill Clinton is a liar an a fraud.

McCain, regardless of your agreement with his positions or not, is a honest man and a viable candidate and the best choice of the 3 for Commander in Chief.


Hopefully things will turn around before the general election comes around. I think (my own particular opinion) when or if Obama and McCain debate side by side; Obama will come off the better hands down.

But there is a disconnect between voters voting for McCain while at the same time wanting troops home.


EVERYBODY wants the soldiers home. However, common sense must dictate HOW and WHEN the soldiers are brought home.

From what I recall, recent polls show McCain being favored as CIC over both Obama and Mrs. Bill Clinton. So there really is no disconnect with intelligent voters IMO.
0 Replies
 
 

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