55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 03:48 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Politicians lie to us all the time, and it is clear to most of us that Social Security has in fact been a scheme, very much like a Ponzi scheme, it depends upon new contributors for the first contributors to receive a dime out of it, because their money has already been spent.

And no, I am not yet collecting Social Security. I could tell you how many tens of hundreds of thousands I have paid into the system, but its none of your business anyway. If I live long enough, I will start collecting in the next couple of years or so.


But if it's a scheme, surely you won't get any money. Right? And if you do, it isn't a scheme, is it?

You can't have it both ways. It can't be both a scheme and work for everyone at the same time.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 06:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Social security has become a scheme to make younger folks pay for the retirement of older folks. In other words, it is transfering wealth from the younger folks to the older folks. It will continue to be a scheme that does this until it goes bankrupt for lack of an adequate number of young folks with an adequate gross income to finance the retirement of older folks.

Yes, the social security system pays me a monthly income which is less than I would be receiving had I instead invested the same amount in treasury bonds.

How shall we older folks recover our own social security investments without making younger folks be liable for them?

First, we must shut down social security;
Second, we must rapidly shut down as many other government wealth transfers as we can!
Third, we must significantly reduce federal taxes;
Fourth, we older folks must dramatically reduce our spending.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 09:01 pm
@okie,
Hundreds of thousands? You do know that one hundred thousand as a number looks like this: 100,000.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 09:10 pm
@ican711nm,
Well,why don't you start the ball rolling by calling the government tomorrow and requesting your removal from the rolls?

Do you realize that allowing people to invest money makes no sense at all? For one thing, real wages have been flat since 1979, which means that no one has money to invest.

The reason that mothers work is not feminism but the fact that dollar just doesn't buy what it once did.

Furthermore, consider that very few people would know how to invest their money. A real Ponzi scheme will, most likely, carry it away.

And you have to be nuts to think that reducing federal taxes will put more money in anyone's pockets. Who is going to pay for road repair? Who is going to pay to clean up the Gulf of Mexico? Who is going to clean up in Tennessee?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 09:11 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

But if it's a scheme, surely you won't get any money. Right? And if you do, it isn't a scheme, is it?

You can't have it both ways. It can't be both a scheme and work for everyone at the same time.

Cycloptichorn

It is a scheme because it is forcing the existing workforce to pay for the benefits of retirees, plus it is causing huge deficits being run by the government, which will eventually break the country and cause unprecedented inflation and other problems. Simply put, the program is broke. If I get the money, it will be paid by cranking up the printing presses to print money that does not exist in the treasury, thus devaluing all the dollars earned by everyone that has been responsible up to this point.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 09:17 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Hundreds of thousands? You do know that one hundred thousand as a number looks like this: 100,000.

Actually, I will be perfectly honest with everyone here. I looked at my last statement and I and my employers have paid in close to around $200,000. Now that is alot of money, and I would venture to guess that alot of it was paid in enough years ago that if it had been privately invested in those years, even with the downturns of the markets, I would be willing to guess it would be worth at least twice that amount. But because of the irresponsible way in which the government has spent that money or loaned it to itself, it has earned far far less than that. Any money manager of a private retirement insurance fund would be sitting in prison right now if they had done what the government has done with our money. In my opinion, it is in fact criminal.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 09:23 pm
@okie,
Don't be so dramatic. The problem gets solved in the short run by increasing the retirement age by a year every 20 years or so. In the long run we'll have something completely different, as technology changes our society.

Try doing the math on it and you'll come to the same conclusion.

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 09:24 pm
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Who is going to pay to clean up the Gulf of Mexico?


According to the President, BP is.
realjohnboy
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 09:27 pm
@okie,
When did a light bulb go off in your head, Okie, about Social Security? Demographers for years have noted that there is this big bubble of baby boomers hitting retirement age right about now and increasing in the next few years. Is this news to you?
There are fewer new people coming into the work force. Is that news to you?
The government, for decades, has been raiding the Social Security Trust Fund, taking out cash and tossing in IOU's. Is that news to you?
Where have you been for the last few dozen years?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 09:33 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

When did a light bulb go off in your head, Okie, about Social Security?

Since you asked, it went off decades ago.
Quote:
Demographers for years have noted that there is this big bubble of baby boomers hitting retirement age right about now and increasing in the next few years. Is this news to you?

No, it is not news, I have known this for decades, at least 20 or 30 years.
Quote:
There are fewer new people coming into the work force. Is that news to you?
The government, for decades, has been raiding the Social Security Trust Fund, taking out cash and tossing in IOU's. Is that news to you?
Where have you been for the last few dozen years?

I've been right here saying exactly what you have been writing, and trying to vote for any politician that recognized the problem and expressed a desire to fix it. Where have you been, voting for Democrats that have been ignoring the problem?
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 09:59 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Who is going to pay to clean up the Gulf of Mexico?


According to the President, BP is.

According to the law, BP is. They pay for 100% of the clean up, and then they can be forced to pay up to some dollar amount in damages.

T
K
O

mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 11:45 am
@Diest TKO,
Dont tell me that, I wasnt the one who asked.
POM did.
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 12:02 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Nothing like seeing a couple of fools congratulate each other for being so smart.

Your repeated libeling of those with whom you disagree is valid evidence that you do not know what you are posting about;
and,
your continuing failure to provide evidence to support your claims is valid evidence that you do not know what you are posting about.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 12:29 pm
This is an interesting development.

Quote:
Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli is invoking a state anti-fraud law to demand the University of Virginia turn over years worth of documents related to climate scientist Michael Mann, targeting about $500,000 in grants that funded Mann's studies.
Cuccinelli, a Republican who is separately suing the federal government over regulation of carbon emissions, issued the school a civil subpoena late last month probing "possible violations" of the Virginia Fraud Against Taxpayers Act by the former U.Va. professor. Mann, now a professor at Penn State, is famous for creating the controversial "hockey stick" graph charting a spike in global temperatures.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Cuccinelli-targets-grants-to-climate-scientist-92723669.html


Good likelihood of this investigation going forward since voters put both the Governor and Cuccinelli in office last year. Good thing too, the more info about this theology of, so called, Global Warming the better for our citizens. I have yet to see a believable cost/benefit analysis that justifies such measures that have been proposed that drastically increases the cost for energy for every person on earth, leaving aside the fact that in the next half century, India and China will not be joining such an effort. For that matter, the best attempt at this analysis that I have seen shows just the opposite ( http://vladenblog.tumblr.com/post/536694174/a-rational-look-at-climate-science ). I suspect this Cap and Tax effort on the part of the left is merely to set up another government run slush fund the left would use to further their socialistic goals by indirectly buying votes (thru entitlements and support of big labor unions) and further pursuit of their crony capitalism agenda (GM, Chrysler, Big Pharma, Google, ethanol and windmill producers, etc) to increase their political power over the private sector.

Seems Obama has now chosen politics even over his socialistic “Change” for America. Perhaps Americans sense his ultimate goals and he feels the need for a change in tactics. Fearing a Lindsay Graham RINO move to pursue bipartisan legislation for carbon emissions I was going to write him with the hope my lone voice might help dissuade him from any such attempts until, at least, the November elections. However Obama beat me to the punch and effectively threw Graham and his bipartisanship under the bus in favor of trying to make the GOP look bad by stirring up the prospect of “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” (i.e. put some form of amnesty in the bill then point out how mean the GOP is when they insist that we get control of the borders first). Before that it was Dodd’s legislation for “Wall Street Fat Cats” and their so-called urgently needed regulation. When the GOP balked and pointed out the legislation’s bad points that provided for future and continuing bailouts for a chosen few large institutions and the possibility that its wording included many, many businesses that were not even banks, Obama started his populace rant that the GOP was trying to protect those evil Fat Cats. Of course Obama never mentioned that a Goldman Sachs that donated 69 percent of their total employee political contributions to the Dems would get any favored treatment by the government (you know like Goldman getting back 100 percent of their AIG originated Credit Default Swaps’ with taxpayer’s money).

I guess the Arizona law was just too much of an opportunity for the left's (and Obama’s ) political ambitions to try and label yet more Americans as racists. Now whole states are statists’ targets. But we have seen increasing numbers of formerly politically inactive citizens paying attention to what this Democratically controlled Federal Government has wrought. The Health Care debate (and stimulus) bills brought many more citizens into the subset of those paying political attention and then, self informing through media outlets sans the MSM's leftist bias. Will we see a larger proportion of our citizens taking a closer look at the issues? Will we see a voting populace with pricked ears every time the president goes populace and tries to demonize various “special interest groups”? After all, we have seen a large number of, not only conservatives, but independents join the Tea Partiers. Some of these voted for the party (and President) that now seeks to, if not demonize, certainly marginalize them and their political views. Will there come a point when the citizens of America start to identify with such “special interest groups” and come to wonder whether those groups are just like them only with different and/or more narrowed interests but share a common statist tormenter? Will Americans then logically conclude that the only demons present are those that demonize and obfuscate rather than argue the merits of their own efforts towards greater political power while continually invoking the utopian end goal of "The General Welfare”?

Indeed, how many demons can this administration create before it runs out of future voters that will be sympathetic to its cause, no matter what that cause may be or how viable ?

JM

realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 01:10 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JamesMorrison wrote:


Good likelihood of this investigation going forward since voters put both the Governor and Cuccinelli in office last year.

JM



I doubt it. Our Governor, Bob McDonnell (R), is putting distance between himself and the Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli (R). The latter is quickly becoming a laughing stock here in Virginia. First he told the state universities that they should eliminate any funding for student organizations that promoted gay rights. I am oversimplifying this because I can't recall the exact wording. UVA and VA Tech said that they would not comply but Gov McDonnell intervened and said it was a stupid idea and it did not have his support. UVA has said that it is exploring how not to comply with providing documents relating to Michael Mann but has said little more. McDonnell will, I think, quietly nix pursuing UVA.
Over the weekend, Cuccinelli became fodder for national comedians. The state seal of Virginia includes an image of a woman with (gasp!) one exposed breast. Staffers in the AG office started wearing lapel pins with a pasty over the obscene image. We can't have no porn in the AG's office.
Here in VA, Govs can serve just one 4-year term. Typically the candidate to succeed from the party in power is either the Lt Gov or AG. Political pundits have already written off Cuccinelli.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 01:15 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Quote:
Of course Obama never mentioned that a Goldman Sachs that donated 69 percent of their total employee political contributions to the Dems would get any favored treatment by the government (you know like Goldman getting back 100 percent of their AIG originated Credit Default Swaps’ with taxpayer’s money).


Is it even worth pointing out to you that AIG was not bailed out by Obama - but by Bush, in September of 2008? And that the money was paid out on those CDSwaps between September of 2008 and the end of the year - before Obama took office?

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2008/09/16/93761.htm

The major problem with the theories of you right-wingers these days is a basic misunderstanding of the fact underlying them. You just make **** up whenever you feel like it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 01:27 pm
American conservatism will grow by leaps and bounds because it's a given
that Obama will not generate any coattail effect for incumbent liberals.

Obama will become a lame duck president half way through his first and final term.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 02:07 pm
Quote:

http://amadon606.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/obama-administration-accused-of-chicago-style-browbeating/
Obama Administration accused of Chicago-style browbeating
Posted by opey606 on May 4, 2009

U.S. Constitution needs to be preserved and protected against Obama Administration Chicago-style assault

Tom Lauria, an attorney at White & Case (NY & Miami) representing a group of first-lien lenders whose contractual agreement with Chrysler had them receiving a very low rate-of-return in exchange for being first-in-line for 100% compensation in case of a Chrysler bankruptcy-restructuring, has accused the White House, during a May 1st interview by Frank Beckman on WJR talk radio, of threatening one of his lender-clients, Perella Weinber Partners.

The deal being forced upon the group of first-lien lenders by the White House is to take 29%, despite the group’s having already offered to compromise by taking 50% in order to “support the rehabilitation of Chrysler and the pensioneers, retirees and workers at Chrysler,” and “despite the fact that they are under no obligation to do so,” and “contrary to what the President said yesterday (Thursday) in his news conference, that these people … will not ‘give’ to support the effort,” said Lauria.

Lauria asserts that Perella Weinberg Partners “was directly threatened by the White House and in essence [was] compelled to withdraw its opposition to the [29%] deal under the threat that the full force of the White House press corps would destroy its reputation if it continued to fight.” In a separate interview later with ABC News, Lauria identified the White House auto task force leader Steven Rattner as the official making the threat.

Lauria is now going to bat against the White House in a lawsuit “of epic proportions” in Bankruptcy court to fight the “abuse [by the White House] of the bankruptcy laws to coerce [first-lien lenders] to subsidize the rehabilition of Chrysler or the backstop of the obligations to the pensioneers and retirees beyond what they are willing to do voluntarily.” He is committed to ensuring that his lender clients “get what they are entitled to for their investors,” who he says include “pensioneers, teachers’ credit unions, personal retiree accounts, retirement plans, and college endowments.”

Lauria is steadfast in asserting that the Obama Administration is overstepping its Constitutional role and violating its separation-of-powers bounds, by “abrogating” the basic Constitutional right-to-property and right-to-contract, and by attempting to exert a judicial role in the settling of this contention.

Interestingly, Perella Weinberg Partners issued a statement on Sunday denying it had been subjected to any political pressure, saying that it was now in agreement with the White House plan essentially because it was good business, while the White House issued a statement denying any coercion.

Now, I ask … Tom Laurie would really place his career and reputation on the line by uttering a false allegation against the President of the United States and involving one of his own clients … ?

Yah, right.

I say that to allow this Executive-Branch muscling to go unchecked would set a dangerous precedent and further erode the rule of constitutional law. This presidential browbeating is further indication that the tone of governance desired by the Obama Administration is that of tyrannical dictatorship.

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 02:32 pm
Here is more evidence that the Odem (i.e., Obamademocrats) are lying thieving gangsters working to reduce our Liberty, our Constitutional Government, and our Capitalist Economy. We shall lawfully remove the Odem from our federal government.
Quote:
http://americaswatchtower.com/2009/02/25/robert-byrd-warns-obama-about-unconstitutional-power-grabs/
Robert Byrd Warns Obama About Unconstitutional Power Grabs
February 25, 2009
...
The longest serving Democrat senator, Robert Byrd, sent a letter to President Obama warning him that he is pushing the constitution’s limits in regards to Obama’s appointment of all of these “czars” to oversee issues that are supposed to be handled by the legislative branch of the government.

In a letter to Obama on Wednesday, Byrd complained about Obama’s decision to create White House offices on health reform, urban affairs policy, and energy and climate change. Byrd said such positions “can threaten the Constitutional system of checks and balances. At the worst, White House staff have taken direction and control of programmatic areas that are the statutory responsibility of Senate-confirmed officials.”

President Obama has been treading in unconstitutional waters since the very beginning of his presidency, even before he was sworn in. I would add to Robert Byrd’s list of infractions by reminding everybody that under Article 1 Section 6 of the constitution Hillary Clinton’s ascendancy to Secretary of State is unconstitutional.

President Obama’s oversight of the census is in direct violation of Article 1 Section 2 of the constitution which states that the house is responsible for the census. Obama’s plan to include sampling in the census taking violate the same article which calls for an “actual” enumeration.

President Obama’s stimulus package which includes aide to the states provided they change their laws to suit what he feel they should be seems to be a violation of the constitution to me also.

I have just listed four violations of the constitution on top of Robert Byrd’s concerns. President Obama is in the midst of a power grab the likes of which has never been seen before. He is taking control of entities that belong in the legislative branch, he is violating the checks and balances of government.

This is the same type of behavior that President Bush was accused of, only this time it is legitimate yet there is only one Democrat in congress who is willing to stand up and be heard. All other Democrats must feel that this power grab is okay, after all he is only doing what is best for us, right? They truly believe that we will thank them in the long run. Repeat after me, it’s only unconstitutional if the Republicans do it. When Democrats do it it is for our own good.

I feel dirty agreeing with the despicable Robert Byrd, who used to be Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, on any issue. As a matter of fact, Obama’s constitutional transgressions are the only issue that I agree with Senator Byrd on. I think that Byrd is one of the most disgusting human beings ever to hold public office in my lifetime, but the man is a constitutional scholar. He carries some weight on this issue.

President Obama is a threat to the constitution, he shows a certain aprehension toward the constitution. Perhaps it is his arrogance that makes him feel as though the constitution doesn’t apply to him as president because he is just interested in doing what he considers the greater good.

ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 02:54 pm
@ican711nm,
My previous post on the topic specified below was also: More evidence that the Odem (i.e., Obamademocrats) are lying thieving gangsters working to reduce our Liberty, our Constitutional Government, and our Capitalist Economy. We shall lawfully remove the Odem from our federal government.
Quote:

http://amadon606.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/obama-administration-accused-of-chicago-style-browbeating/
Obama Administration accused of Chicago-style browbeating
Posted by opey606 on May 4, 2009

U.S. Constitution needs to be preserved and protected against Obama Administration Chicago-style assault

0 Replies
 
 

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