55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 05:41 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
I notice Obama is deeply troubled by folks that don't trust government. Does he realize the founders of this country did not trust government, and that is why the constitution and Bill of Rights were written as they were written?

More atrocities have been wreaked upon humankind by government than any other entity. It is obvious Obama is ignorant of history, as he is ignorant of the ultimate fruits of various political philosophies.


We all must face the fact that Obama-dude is a smug, ignorant, elitists, anti-capitalist, liberal supremacists.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 01:08 pm
@okie,
Please read the story that the main stream media will not print about Rove's tuesday book signing in Birmingham, Alabama. Glynn Wilson of the Locust Fork Journal was on the scene reporting.

Thanks
Don Siegelman

205-260-3965
[email protected]
Governor of Alabama , 1999-2003
Lt Governor, 1995-1999
Attorney General, 1983-1991
Secretary of State, 1979-1983

by Glynn Wilson

About 20 people showed up at the Brookwood Mall Books-A-Million in Birmingham Tuesday to get a signed copy of former Bush political aide Karl Rove’s book, Courage and Consequence, a memoir of his time in the White House designed to try and repair the legacy of a president some scholars are already calling about the worst in American history.

The most prominent person to show up for a signed copy was none other than William “Bill” Pryor, the former Alabama attorney general who first started trying to investigate then-Governor Don Siegelman in 1998.


....Yes, that’s the same Bill Pryor Rove tried to deny knowing before the House Judiciary Committee, although Rove’s political consulting company ran his campaign for attorney general in 1998. When Pryor walked up and Rove saw him, he smiled real big and said, “Hey, Bud!”

Outside the mall and across the street, about the same number of people, about 20 by my count, showed up to protest Rove’s visit, sporting T-shirts with the slogan “Free Don Siegelman” and carrying signs ... Frank Mathews, a former radio talk show host and aide to jailed Birmingham Mayor Larry Langford, led the protest with his group the Outcast Voters League.

Inside, reporters were allowed to take pictures and ask questions for about 10 minutes before Rove started the book signing.

A broadcast reporter for WAKA in Montgomery asked a question about Siegelman and got a fairly lengthy non-answer from Rove... denying any knowledge of the Siegelman prosecution and saying the former governor should make his claims under oath.

Siegelman is out of federal prison on an appeal bond awaiting word on a motion for a new trial in Montgomery and to find out whether the U.S. Supreme Court will take up the appeal.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 08:46 pm
@plainoldme,
Don't know anything about it, pom, but it seems reasonable what Rove said: "the former governor should make his claims under oath."
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 02:41 pm
Here is more evidence that the Odem (i.e., Obamademocrats) are lying thieving gangsters working to reduce our Liberty. our Constitutional Government, and our Capitalist Economy. We shall remove the Odem from our federal government.
Quote:

http://biggovernment.com/taylorking/2010/04/28/puerto-rico-51st-state-congress-scrambling-to-make-it-so/
The [2010 Puerto Rico the 51st state] referendum would be set up as two plebiscites which would effectively deceive Puerto Ricans into voting for statehood. In the first round of votes, the Puerto Rican people would be given the choice between remaining a U.S. territory and “pursuing a different political status.” If the majority votes to maintain the status quo, this bill would require that Puerto Rico vote on this same issue every eight years.

If the majority votes for “different status,” a second round of votes would be held where Puerto Ricans would choose either statehood or independence-the status quo of “U.S. territory” would not even be an option! In other words, the two ballots would be rigged to favor the outcome of statehood, overriding the wishes of Americans and Puerto Ricans who want to maintain the current commonwealth status.
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 02:46 pm
@ican711nm,
What's wrong with Puerto Rico becoming a state ican? Many in PR want this. There has been a major swing in popularity to become a state in the recent years.

Your post has nothing to do with American's liberty.

T
K
O
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 02:49 pm
Here is more evidence that the Odem (i.e., Obamademocrats) are lying thieving gangsters working to reduce our Liberty. our Constitutional Government, and our Capitalist Economy. We shall remove the Odem from our federal government.
Quote:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-stein-20100430,0,603760.story
What Arizona's immigration law really says
It's not about racial profiling; it's about upholding the law.
Dan Stein

"As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged." Those words were written by former President Clinton in a New York Times op-ed marking the 15th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing.

While Clinton's finger-wagging was directed at critics of the Obama administration, his caution against overblown rhetoric might also be heeded by the vast echo chamber bent on whipping up hysteria in response to a recently passed Arizona law designed to effectively address illegal immigration.

Arizonans have endured decades of federal neglect of immigration enforcement. Half of illegal border crossings now occur in Arizona, and our study found that state taxpayers spend more than $2 billion a year on education and healthcare for illegal immigrants and their children. The porous border is virtually a welcome mat for criminal organizations that run drugs and other contraband through the state. Kidnappings in Phoenix are at an all-time high, and the killing last month of rancher Robert Krentz -- police suspect by an illegal immigrant -- is only the latest graphic example of the impact that rampant illegal immigration has on ordinary Arizonans.

Faced with an ongoing crisis and little help from Washington, Arizona has been forced to respond to protect its residents and its financial resources. This month, the legislature passed and Gov. Jan Brewer signed SB 1070. Among other things, this law requires all law enforcement officers in Arizona to act on reasonable suspicion that an individual is in the country illegally.

The reaction from advocates for illegal immigrants to SB 1070 -- which, according to opinion polls, is supported by some 70% of Arizonans -- can only be described as incendiary and irresponsible, not to mention patently inaccurate. Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony invoked images of Nazi Germany and Soviet totalitarianism. Reform Immigration for America, an umbrella coalition of pro-amnesty groups, warned ominously that "it's racial profiling, and it encapsulates the hatred we are fighting." ACORN's Bertha Lewis declared, "If this bill passes, Arizona is declaring itself an apartheid state."

SB 1070 is not a mandate for Arizona police to seek out illegal immigrants. It conforms fully with the Constitution's 4th Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure. Under the law, Arizona police are prohibited from racially profiling or stopping anybody merely because of appearance or ethnicity. They may inquire about immigration status only if there is justification for the stop under the Constitution -- such as investigating a possible crime -- and there is reasonable suspicion that the individual is in the U.S. illegally.

And what is reasonable suspicion? Reasonable suspicion might include the lack of any sort of valid U.S. identification documents that police officers routinely request from anyone who is lawfully stopped. The law expressly states that race, color or ethnicity does not constitute reasonable suspicion of illegal presence in the U.S. In reality, SB 1070 does nothing more than require police in Arizona to protect the citizenry and uphold responsibilities abrogated by the federal government.

A ruling by the U.S. 1st Circuit Court of Appeals this year provides firm legal footing for Arizona's law. In Estrada vs. Rhode Island, the court affirmed that the failure of an alien to possess alien registration documents represents probable cause for state or local police to arrest the person for a federal misdemeanor committed in the officer's presence, or detain that person until the individual's status can be verified.

Predictably, those who have consistently opposed all efforts to enforce U.S. immigration laws are resorting to a campaign of lies and distortions to fight implementation of the law.

SB 1070, plain and simple, will allow police to identify and detain people because of the laws they violate, not because they happen to meet a particular racial or ethnic profile. What it demands is that state law enforcement officers no longer turn a blind eye in situations in which they reasonably suspect that an individual they have encountered is violating U.S. immigration laws.

Dan Stein is president of the Federation for American Immigration Reform.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 03:01 pm
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

What's wrong with Puerto Rico becoming a state ican?


Isn't it obvious? It would mean more Democrat Senators and Representatives. That's the only reason they give a ****.

Cycloptichorn
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 03:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I was amused to read in the link about Puerto Rico that Glenn Beck had "dropped a bombshell." This idea has been around since 2007 or so but his PR flacks are out in force pandering to those with political naivete.
Apropos to nothing, my combat squad in VN consisted largely of Puerto Rican and black draftees.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 03:42 pm
@Diest TKO,
There is nothing "wrong with Puerto Rico becoming a state if that is indeed what a majority of Puerto Rican voters want. After all, Puerto Ricans are Americans too. Remember inhabitants of Alaska and Hawaii were Americans before these two territories became states.

A simple and acceptable choice would allow the Puerto Ricans to become a state if they chose:
(1) remain a US territory;
(2) become a US atate.

Even the following choice would be acceptable, if that choice obtaining a majority is the winner:
(i) remain a US territory;
(ii) become a US state;
(iii) cease being a a part of the US.

If none of these three choices were to obtain a majority, then a run-off vote on the two choices with the most votes would be acceptable.


BUT the Odem are not going to give Puerto Ricans either acceptable choice:
First, they will be given the choice between:
(a) remain a US territory;
(b) pursue a different political status.

If a majority chooses (a), then every 8 years they will be asked the same question.

If they choose (b), then in a separate later vote they will be given this second choice:
(c) become a US state;
(d) cease being a a part of the US.

Given these latter two choices, they would then be denied remaining a US territory, if they subsequently decided they do not want to cease being a part of the US. That is unacceptable.


ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 03:47 pm
The Odem and/or their supporters are repeatedly accusing conservatives and TEA Party members of racism. That is a damn lie. Each time they repeat that lie, they supply additional evidence that the Odem and/or their supporters are lying thieving gangsters working to reduce our Liberty, our Constitutional Government, and our Capitalist Economy. We shall remove the Odem from our federal government.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 03:52 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:


Given these latter two choices, they would then be denied remaining a US territory, if they subsequently decided they do not want to cease being a part of the US. That is unacceptable.


Why? If the majority choose 'we want a different status,' why bother giving them the option to choose the same status over again?

Just admit it: you are against anything that might lead to greater Dem representation in Congress, and it is from here that your opposition is based.

Cycloptichorn
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 04:42 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Closer to home, Cyclo, the Repubs have blocked voting representation in the House for residents of the District of Columbia for decades. The people there tend to lean strongly in favor of Dems.
A deal was crafted to give a vote to D.C. in exchange for also adding a seat in a state that is typically Repub. I can't recall which state it was going to be. Somewhere in the great plains.
The plan has been derailed as the Repubs are demanding that the D.C. government revoke the citywide ban on handguns.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 04:46 pm
@realjohnboy,
The state was Utah...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 05:09 pm
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

What's wrong with Puerto Rico becoming a state


Costs would rise and that would hurt an economy that is based on tourism.
And businesses that currently enjoy a tax break by doing business in PR
would suffer leading to increased joblessness because companies would
leave PR. Statehood may be good for those inside the beltway but,
statehood is not a good move for the lovely Puerto Rican people.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 07:27 pm
I used to think that gungasnake was the most tiresome member of a2k but it looks like ican has seized the crown!
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 06:44 am
@plainoldme,


POM, you are the most tiresome member of a2k. Embrace you insignificance.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 10:59 am
Quote:

Bernie Madoff talked people into investing with him. Trouble was, he didn't invest their money. As time rolled on he simply took the money from the new investors to pay off the old investors.

Finally there were too many old investors and not enough money from new investors coming in to keep the payments going. Next thing you know Madoff is one of the most hated men in America and he is off to jail.

Government has been running this Ponzi game to us for over 60 years with Social Security, except that one was operated by a private individual who is now in jail, and the other is operated by politicians who enjoy perks, privileges and status in spite of their actions.

A side-by-side comparison:

BERNIE MADOFF
Takes money from investors with the promise that the money will be invested and made available to them later

SOCIAL SECURITY
Takes money from wage earners with the promise that the money will be invested in a "Trust Fund" and made available later.

BERNIE MADOFF
Instead of investing the money Madoff spends it on nice homes in the Hamptons and yachts.

SOCIAL SECURITY
Instead of depositing money in a Trust Fund the politicians use it for general spending and vote buying.

BERNIE MADOFF
When the time comes to pay the investors back Madoff simply uses some of the new funds from newer investors to pay back the older investors.

SOCIAL SECURITY
When benefits for older investors become due the politicians pay them with money taken from younger and newer wage earners to pay the geezers.

BERNIE MADOFF
When Madoff's scheme is discovered all hell breaks loose. New investors won't give him any more cash.

SOCIAL SECURITY
When Social Security runs out of money they simply force the taxpayers to send them some more.

CURRENT STATUS
Bernie Madoff is in jail.
Politicians giving away Social Security funds remain in Washington. /quote]
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 03:34 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Government has been running this Ponzi game to us for over 60 years with Social Security, except that one was operated by a private individual who is now in jail, and the other is operated by politicians who enjoy perks, privileges and status in spite of their actions.

A side-by-side comparison:

BERNIE MADOFF
Takes money from investors with the promise that the money will be invested and made available to them later
SOCIAL SECURITY
Takes money from wage earners with the promise that the money will be invested in a "Trust Fund" and made available later.
CURRENT STATUS
Bernie Madoff is in jail.
Politicians giving away Social Security funds remain in Washington. /quote]


Excellent and very accurate comparison, ican.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 03:37 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Excellent and very accurate comparison, ican.


Nothing like seeing a couple of fools congratulate each other for being so smart Rolling Eyes

One of the primary and gigantic differences between Madoff and SS is the fact that Madoff was lying to his customers, whereas SS is open for anyone to look at. Hard to call something a 'scheme' or 'ripoff' when it's clear as day what's going on.

Besides- and I will ask you this again - are you not collecting Social Security monies, right now?

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 03:47 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Politicians lie to us all the time, and it is clear to most of us that Social Security has in fact been a scheme, very much like a Ponzi scheme, it depends upon new contributors for the first contributors to receive a dime out of it, because their money has already been spent.

And no, I am not yet collecting Social Security. I could tell you how many hundreds of thousands I have paid into the system, but its none of your business anyway. If I live long enough, I will start collecting in the next couple of years or so.
 

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