55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 10:19 am
@H2O MAN,
You know, or at least you should, that every winning president has run on a platform of Hope and Change (in some form or another).

Believe me, Obama has not done very much right this last year in my opinion, but you're being disingeneous. You want to hold Obama accountable for the actions of previous administrations. I agree that these are his problems now, but he's only accountable for the solutions (or lack thereof) he proposes TO those problems, not the problems themselves.





I don't know why I am continuing this conversation. There is a reason you see very few responses from me to your posts. It has nothing to do with agreement.
Below viewing threshold (view)
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 01:51 pm
Obamademocrats are unfair. They are thieves. They steal American's money and other property, and they steal American's liberty.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 01:54 pm
@ican711nm,
Expert Testimony
Quote:

Subject: HOPE: Judge Napolitano says ObamaCare will be judged unconstitutional by Supreme Courtt.

Constitutional Judge Andrew Napolitano (you've seen him on FOX), says the following in an article in Newsmax:

"The Constitution does not authorize the Congress to regulate the state governments," Napolitano says. "Nevertheless, in this piece of legislation, the Congress has told the state governments that they must modify their regulation of certain areas of healthcare, they must surrender their regulation of other areas of healthcare, and they must spend state taxpayer-generated dollars in a way that the Congress wants it done.


"That's called commandeering the legislature," he says. "That's the Congress taking away the discretion of the legislature with respect to regulation, and spending taxpayer dollars. That's prohibited in a couple of Supreme Court cases. So on that argument, the attorneys general have a pretty strong case and I think they will prevail.”


Napolitano, author of his just-released “Lies the Government Told You: Myth, Power, and Deception in American History” and a Fox News senior judicial analyst, is the youngest Superior Court judge ever to attain lifetime tenure in the state of New Jersey. He served on the bench from 1987 to 1995.


Napolitano tells Newsmax that the longstanding precedent of state regulation of the healthcare industry makes the new federal regulations that much more problematic.


"The Supreme Court has ruled that in areas of human behavior that are not delegated to the Congress in the Constitution, and that have been traditionally regulated by the states, the Congress can't simply move in there," Napolitano says. "And the states for 230 years have had near-exclusive regulation over the delivery of healthcare. The states license hospitals. The states license medications. The states license healthcare providers whether they're doctors, nurses, or pharmacists. The feds have had nothing to do with it.


"The Congress can't simply wake up one day and decide that it wants to regulate this. I predict that the Supreme Court will invalidate major portions of what the president just signed into law…"


The judge also says he would rate President Obama as one of the worst presidents in terms of obedience to constitutional limitations.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 04:08 pm
Here is something interesting. HOTAIR reports that Obama polls only 2% better then G.W. Bush (or as Asherman prefers, 'The Shrub') and only 1% better than Ron Paul:
Quote:
Americans are now pretty evenly divided about whether they would rather have Barack Obama or George W. Bush in the White House. 48% prefer Obama while 46% say they would rather have the old President back.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/14/obligatory-polls-obama-leads-bush-by-two-ron-paul-by-one/


Further PPP has this:
Quote:
Our monthly look ahead to the 2012 Presidential race finds Barack Obama more or less tied with all four of the leading candidates for the Republican nomination. He trails Mike Huckabee 47-45 and Mitt Romney 45-44, ties Newt Gingrich at 45-45, and leads Sarah Palin 47-45. This is the weakest performance Obama’s posted in these 13 monthly surveys and a pretty clear indication that passing health care has not done anything to enhance his political standing, at least in the short term.
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/04/obama-gop-folks-knotted-up.html


This points, perhaps, to the reality that almost anybody who is not Barack Obama has a good chance of defeating him. There is , of course , the possibility that the Dems would plump for a 2012 Presidential candidate that is both a democrat and not Obama. But they wouldn't throw 'The One' under 'The Bus'...would they? WAIT! Obama is only 2% ahead of Sarah Palin? Isn't that, like, just a polling margin of error? Wink

JM
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 04:49 pm


The left has to accept that Obama is a one term president and move on.
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 07:51 pm
@H2O MAN,
I must respectfully disagree. I sincerely hope the left stands on principle and supports Obama in his re-election bid in 2012. But if the left is as principled as the Democratic branch of its right to life pols (see the Stupak twelve), well...then all bets are off.

Seriously though, I am trying to find a good comparsion between the flat and fair tax arguments. I know you favor the fair tax but can you reccomend a published debate on both?

JM
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 11:33 am
Obamademocrats are unfair!

Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=19216&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD

"SPREADING THE WEALTH" ISN'T FAIR

President Obama says he wants to create what he calls "a sense of balance and fairness in our tax code," and ensure that well-off Americans "pay their fair share." He famously defended his planned tax hikes to "Joe the Plumber" by saying, "I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody."

Starting in January 2011, "the rich" -- defined by President Obama as individuals earning more than $200,000 and families earning more than $250,000 per year -- will see their marginal tax rate rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent.

Their effective tax rate will increase even more as certain credits and deductions are phased out.

Meanwhile, projections from the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center showed that 38 percent of Americans were expected to have had zero or negative federal individual income tax liability in 2009, before the stimulus was enacted.

After President Obama's budget, stimulus, and other tax changes, this proportion will increase to nearly 46 percent in 2011, all while the federal government grows in size.

Simple facts about our tax system do not support the contention that it is "unfair" in favor of the rich, says Arthur C. Brooks, president of the American Enterprise Institute:

According to the most recent IRS data, the top 5 percent of earners bring in 37 percent of the income but pay 60 percent of the federal individual income taxes.

The bottom half of earners bring home 12 percent of the income but pay 3 percent of the taxes.

Today, according to the Tax Foundation, 60 percent of Americans consume more in government services than they pay in taxes.

The president's argument is wrong, says Brooks. There is nothing inherently fair about equalizing incomes. If the government penalizes you for working harder than somebody else, that is unfair. If you save your money but retire with the same pension as a free-spending neighbor, that is also unfair.

Real fairness, says Brooks, does not mean bringing the top down. Yes, free markets tend to produce unequal incomes. We should not be ashamed of that. On the contrary, our system is the envy of the world and should be a source of pride. Generation after generation, it has rewarded hard work and good values, education and street smarts. It has offered the world's most disadvantaged not government redistribution but a chance to earn their success.

Source: Arthur C. Brooks, "'Spreading The Wealth' Isn't Fair," Wall Street Journal, April 14, 2010.
parados
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 11:35 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:

Starting in January 2011, "the rich" -- defined by President Obama as individuals earning more than $200,000 and families earning more than $250,000 per year -- will see their marginal tax rate rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent.

uh.. that bill was passed by the GOP and signed by President Bush.
Maybe you should complain about WHO passed the bill ican, instead of blaming those that didn't overturn it.

Oh. wait.. you just did the OPPOSITE in complaining about Carter and the housing bill.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 11:37 am
@ican711nm,
Inequality of incomes has nothing to do with 'working harder.' If you think some guy pushing paper in an office somewhere is working harder then a guy picking vegetables in a field, you're out of your mind.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 12:01 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JamesMorrison wrote:
I am trying to find a good comparsion between the flat and fair tax arguments.

The fair tax proposes to repeal the 16th Amendment, and to tax selected personal spending at the same rate with no exceptions. Furthermore, the fair tax proposes to refund taxes paid by those people annually earning less than a specified amount.

The flat tax proposes to tax all individual gross incomes at the same rate with no exceptions. Furthermore, the flat tax proposes that all other income taxes, like business and inheritance taxes be terminated. Also, it proposes an end to all deductions, exemptions, refunds, paypacks, et cetera.

In my opinion, the flat tax is more difficult for Congress to corrupt--to buy votes--than is the fair tax, because the fair tax proposes selective taxing on spending and not on all spending, and it proposes to make selective refunds to some spenders and not to all spenders.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 12:07 pm
Wrongs are wrong whether perpetrated by the GOP or by the DEMs. Wrongs should be corrected whether corrected by the DEMs or by the GOP.

Regardless of who perpetrates a wrong, that entity which continues that wrong is just as guilty of perpetrating that wrong as the original perpetrator of that wrong.
parados
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 12:26 pm
@ican711nm,
So the Tea Party is wrong then... Got it.. Thanks for clearing that up ican.
ican711nm
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 02:06 pm
@parados,
Yes, the Tea Party members are wrong for waiting for so many years to start rectifying the wrongs of the GOP and DEMs. But since April 15, 2009, the Tea Party has been right. They are rectifying their wrongs and attempting to rectify the wrongs perpetrated by the GOP and the DEM.

You too can now begin to rectify your wrongs by joining the Tea Party now and helping them rectify the wrongs of the GOP and DEMs.
parados
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 03:24 pm
@ican711nm,
The Tea Party is RIGHT when the government pays for their rallies? Huh?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 05:49 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Don't you love how the right calls names and lies? At least they're consistent.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 06:07 pm
@okie,
The answer ought to be simple. Since 1979, the bottom four quintiles . . . and a quintile is 1/5th or 20% . . . have seen no real increase in their salaries.

Last year, I made less than $19,000. I taught two classes at a community college one semester and earned $5,380 or less than the taxes on my house for a year.

My father made $17,000 during the year that he earned the most, which was probably in the 1970s. He retired in 1984 after he had his first heart attack at age 61.

My family of six lived better than I did last year or the year before.

I paid taxes the year before. My return was corrected by the government and the amount I owed was doubled. Unless the government corrects my return, I will pay no taxes this year but to reach that point, I had to earn less than the amount regarded as the minimal for this area: $22,000. (When Michael Harrington wrote The Other America, grad student poor made $2,000/annum . . . today's grad students have to earn more than $20,000 just to survive.) Then I had to use some of my returns from my reverse mortgage to install a pellet stove in my house, which is the only way I was able to not pay taxes . . . or might be . . . we will see what the feds have to say.

I would suggest that the 40% who pay no income tax are not people like me who earn very little but people at the top . . . who would tend to be Republicans. Although the Republicans are angry at both Warren Buffet and Bill Gates because the Repubs find those guys far too liberal.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 06:09 pm
@H2O MAN,
It hasn't happened. Do you write alternate history? Could you tell us what you've written? With your imagination, they should be "good, big reads" as the critics say when they dismiss beach books.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 06:10 pm
@okie,
I actually studied history and my reading comprehension is more sophisticated than yours.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 06:27 pm
@okie,
I tend to ignore your blathering. I haven't looked at a2k for several days and I detest these unreadable posts with boxes within boxes.

Unlike you, I am not a rich capitalist and am not well traveled. My daughter spent a great deal of time in Denmark with friends that we later entertained here in America.

You made a fool of yourself by equating pick up trucks with wealth. How embarrassing for you.

Europeans walk more than Americans which may be why they are slimmer.

Consider how many American cities are hellholes with small apartments and no yards. Nashua, NH. Syracuse, NY. Albany, NY.

Sluggo, the veneer of civilization is very thin. For you, civilization is an RV.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.66 seconds on 11/15/2024 at 03:56:17