55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 01:57 pm
@plainoldme,


Careful, your ignorance is showing
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 06:52 pm
The Obamademocrats are the real problem!

Obamademocrats are greedy for power over their fellow human beings. Attaining that power is their END. They will continue to utilize whatever MEANS serves their ends. They will not be be concerned with whether or not their means and processes for achieving their ends adhere to the rules of law, or of ethics, or of morality. For them, their ends suffice to justify their means.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 08:36 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

The Obamademocrats are the real problem!

They will not be be concerned with whether or not their means and processes for achieving their ends adhere to the rules of law, or of ethics, or of morality.

Leftist dictators of history all sang the praises of "SOCIAL JUSTICE," ican, and any means justified the end, even murdering millions to make it happen sometimes, as incredible as that may seem, but true. Leftists have a vision of utopia, where all the wrongs will be put right in their twisted minds. I cannot explain it, ican, I am only an observer of history. Guys like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, Chairman Mao, now Chavez, they all seem to follow the same pattern.

I am not comparing Obama to the above, except to say Obama is very much an extreme Leftist in my opinion as it is many people's opinion, and he also has a tinge of the mindset of obsessing with SOCIAL JUSTICE, at least he talks about it, but I doubt the man will find a way to exercise what I think could be hidden in a very dark place in his heart, I don't think America will allow him to do it. I will say however that I believe America has elected the most dangerous man ever to the Whitehouse, and this even includes that of Clinton.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 08:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Yeah, that's why our founding fathers started the country - to let it be ran by religious zealots! Not so much. In fact, while they themselves were religious people, they considered the mixture of religion and policy to be abhorrent and they would hate our modern situation. It used to be a secret what religion (sect of Christianity, really) the president was, even!

Really cyclops? Why didn't Lincoln find it abhorrent to pray about his decisions or have a Bible on the White House desk to read? After all, he would not have wanted to have religion mixed up with his decisions would he?

Quote:
As for the fiscal discipline, another joke. Sure, Republicans cut taxes. But when's the last time they cut spending in any meaningful way? Not during my lifetime!

Cycloptichorn

You have put your finger on a problem, I do believe that. We must have not only the will to cut taxes, but spending. We have grown the entitlements primarily because of Democrats, but the collective will to roll them back cannot be mustered, so we end up with a tug of war, Republicans are pulling on the tax end of the rope trying to deter the ability of Democrats to institute new spending, while Democrats pull the spending end of the rope knowing that if they create the spending to build their voter base, then taxes have to fall into line to pay for it. The primary problem is that too many Americans have found out that they can vote for more entitlements and let somebody else pay for them. What we need is more citizenship, more taxpayers. We now have approaching half the population not paying any income taxes, so why should they care if the rest of us pay more, not them?

Too many people have forgotten the principles of the constitution and the meaning of freedom, liberty, and citizenship in a free country in regard to the responsibility of it. Most of those people are Democrats and liberals.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 09:07 pm
Question for anyone that can find a credible statistic, as relates to the 40 some percent now that pay no income tax, what is the percentage of those people that are Republican, Democrat, or independent or unaffiliated? I am unable to find any number out there, but surely there should be a poll or something? I suspect very much that the vast majority are Democrat or unaffiliated, while Republicans probably pay most of the taxes in this country, at least most Republicans would pay some taxes probably, as opposed to Democrats. We know there are some very very wealthy Democrats with guilt complexes, like the Kennedys that pay tons of taxes, or maybe they evade them with loopholes I don't know, but are those the exceptions. Just curious, can anyone find some statistics.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 10:24 pm
Denmark is a tiny country with high taxes but the standard of living is extraordinary.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3832689n&tag=mncol;lst;8

One of the things that these no tax screamers forget is that somehow, services must be paid for and either those services are paid for directly or they are paid for through taxes.

Consider that the bottom percentage that allegedly pay no taxes are the bottom two quintiles of the working population. Wages for the bottom four quintiles (what a euphemism!) have remained static since 1979. Government is not the problem, industry is the problem.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 10:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
It is shocking. Just on the basic social level, Eisenhower was a classy person while palin is gauche.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 10:29 pm
@okie,
So?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 10:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I, for one, am sick of reminding these OCD-inflicted ranters that the Founding Fathers were deists.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 10:35 pm
@H2O MAN,
So, what is your direct experience with teacher's unions? What government schools are there . . . state universities?

And, if the "vast majority of higher learning centers (whatever a higher learning center is)" are liberal, perhaps, that is because conservatism is largely antithetical to learning. Consider that most scientists are liberals. It is difficult to be educated to the Ph.D. level and be as . . . shall we say jejeune . . . enough to remain a conservative.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 05:54 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

I oppose the nationalization of schools ...


So, what is your direct experience with the nationalization of schools?
You say you opposed it, but you don't seem to mind that it happened.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 07:07 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Denmark is a tiny country with high taxes but the standard of living is extraordinary.

Have you been there? I have, and I have relatives there. Yes, it is a nice country with decent living, but no way do they live as nice there as here. In general, housing is small and cramped, and people do not in any way enjoy the amenities that we have here. Seldom do you even see a pickup truck, few if any campers and when you see one it is of little size, not much recreation in the way of outdoor recreation and that sort of thing, their lives are pretty much restricted to the basics of surviving, working, coming home, and watching TV. Their flats or apartments are small, their yards are small, and little room for gardens, parking is highly limited around housing, and cars are so small as to be difficult to go anywhere with more than a passenger or two. In big cities, transportation is often by smelly buses or subway, no thanks as far as I am concerned, and it also makes me think of London, where you can keep that hellhole as far as I am concerned, I had enough of riding the underground there. I don't know how you judge standard of living, but mine compared to my relatives in Denmark are infinitely nicer, although I would not tell them that. I do however admire the Danes, who take pride in their country and you do not see junk in their yards, the homes are well kept and flowers abound.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 07:09 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

plainoldme wrote:

I oppose the nationalization of schools ...


So, what is your direct experience with the nationalization of schools?
You say you opposed it, but you don't seem to mind that it happened.

H2OMAN, that statement about opposing the nationalization of schools was funny, in fact threw me a curve, when did pom oppose that and when did that happen? And if that did happen, on what basis, and how come pom is in favor of nationalizing health care and probably everything else, what makes other things different than schools, that would be a question for her?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 07:11 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

I, for one, am sick of reminding these OCD-inflicted ranters that the Founding Fathers were deists.

You know, you libs love to use the term, Diests, do you even know what it means, and are you aware that you are way off base? The founders were basically very religious and devout people, mostly of the Christian faith.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 07:15 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

It is shocking. Just on the basic social level, Eisenhower was a classy person while palin is gauche.

Palin is infinitely classier than some of the Democrats we have now, I could go down the list from Pelosi, to Hillary, to Michelle, etc.) Eisenhower was a classy person, a great president, and as I have been threatening to do, I am going to someday retype Eisenhower's article that he wrote "Why I am a Republican," to prove what I have said about the man. I cannot find a link on the internet of its transcript, so I will need to retype it. It was published in an old Saturday Evening Post or Life magazine that I bought in an antique store from the 50's, and it explains in detail his political and personal philosophy, which is overwhelmingly conservative and not in any way liberal at all as some might want to suggest here.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 08:32 am
@okie,
I can't find it, but are you looking for this?

Dwight D. Eisenhower, "Why I Am a Republican," Saturday Evening Post, April 11, 1964.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 10:24 am
@H2O MAN,
I believe that is it, I am pretty certain that is the exact title of the article. I have the magazine at my place of work, and will confirm that later, maybe today.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:49 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

I can't find it, but are you looking for this?

Dwight D. Eisenhower, "Why I Am a Republican," Saturday Evening Post, April 11, 1964.

H2OMAN, I sent a thumbs up to this post of yours, because I noticed it at zero, which means somebody thumbs down on it. Which brings up a question, what dunce would thumbs down a simple post establishing the issue and title of an article written by Dwight D. Eisenhower, one of the greatest Americans of all time in the history of the country, just what kind of dunce does that take, anyway? Are they that biased that they cannot face the simplest of things, do they live in total and absolute denial of reality?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 02:05 pm
Quote:

HEALTH LAW WILL BE COSTLY FOR FLORIDIANS
The nation's new health care law represents a monumental series of missed opportunities. Instead of lowering the cost of health care for Americans, this law will increase costs. Instead of fixing the health care programs for seniors and those who cannot afford insurance, this law cuts Medicare and adds more people to the failing Medicaid system. This law actually cuts $529 billion out of Medicare, the health care plan serving more than 3 million of Florida's seniors, to create a new entitlement program. Instead of letting people keep their existing health care plans, this law will force many families out of their current coverage, says Sen. George LeMieux (R-Fla.).

For Floridians, the new law means:

More than 985,000 Floridians enrolled in Medicare Advantage will likely have their benefits reduced; the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services predict a decrease in Medicare Advantage enrollment somewhere between 33 percent and 64 percent.

According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Florida's small businesses employing 50 or more people will pay either higher health care costs or a new penalty because of new government mandates.

Moreover, many of Florida's 1.2 million college students will continue to pay 6.8 percent interest on unsubsidized student loans:

The health care law allows the federal government to take over the student loan program, saving what CBO estimates is $61 billion over 10 years.

But instead of passing those savings on in the form of lower interest rates, students will continue paying the current rate and some of the savings will fund new health care programs.

Also:

Based on an Oliver Wyman study, the youngest 30 percent of Floridians will pay 35 percent more as premiums rise in the individual market.

Approximately 4.45 million Floridians making less than $200,000 will pay higher taxes, based on estimates by the Joint Committee on Taxation.
Every Floridian's share of the national debt will increase when the cost of paying doctors to see Medicare patients is included (there will be $8,470 in new government spending for every Floridian).

Some 1.5 million low-income Floridians will be added to Florida's Medicaid program even though only 50 percent of doctors nationally are willing to see new Medicaid patients.

Source: Sen. George LeMieux (R-Fla.), "Health law will be costly for Floridians," St. Petersburg Times, April 8, 2010.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 02:20 pm
Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=19192&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
TAXING THE WEALTHY IS BAD NEWS FOR EVERYONE
The new health care law will substantially increase the tax burden of high-income workers and small businesses over the next few years. The tax hikes will reduce the capital stock and discourage small business job creation -- the opposite of what is needed to grow the economy, says Pamela Villarreal, a senior policy analyst with the National Center for Policy Analysis.

Consider:

The 2001 Bush tax cuts reduced the lowest marginal income tax rate from 15 percent to 10 percent and the highest from 39.6 percent to 35 percent.
President Obama proposes to raise the two top marginal rates to 36 and 39.6 percent beginning 2011 for the highest-income earners while leaving the other tax brackets unchanged.

Beginning in 2013, the new health care reform law will impose an additional 0.9 percent Medicare tax on wage income for individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and couples earning more than $250,000.

Additionally, the new law imposes a 3.8 percent Medicare tax on unearned income, such as rent, royalties, dividends and capital gains for the same high-income earners.

The Obama administration also wants to increase long-term capital gains tax rates from 15 percent this year to 20 percent in 2011 for the two highest tax brackets, and taxing dividends at ordinary income tax rates for those earning $200,000 a year or more.

How will this affect the above income groups? Suppose an individual owns $50,000 worth of stock that has accumulated an 8 percent capital gain and 3 percent dividend after one year:

By 2013, the tax on the $4,000 gain (sold after one year) would be as much as $1,309, compared to $825 if the current tax cuts are extended.

With the current capital gains tax rate of 15 percent, the tax on the sale of $50,000 in stock would be $825, and the after-tax rate of return would be 9.35 percent.

If President Obama's proposed capital gains and dividends rates of 20 percent go into effect, along with the new Medicare taxes, the tax bill rises to $1,352 and the after-tax rate of return falls to 8.38 percent.

For ordinary dividends, a higher marginal tax rate and the new Medicare taxes could nearly double the individual's effective (average) tax rate from 15 percent to more than 29 percent.

Thus, for high earners the after-tax rate of return on this type of investment would fall by more than 10 percent, or more than one percentage point, says Villarreal.

Increasing the capital gains tax could lower government tax revenues, because people will hold on to assets in order to avoid the tax. This lock-in effect has been noted when capital gains tax rates increased in the past. Moreover, the lower rate of return resulting from higher taxes may discourage people from investing in certain capital assets in the first place, says Villarreal.

Source: Pamela Villarreal, "Higher Taxes on Capital Gains and Dividends," National Center for Policy Analysis, Brief Analysis No.701, April 8, 2010.

0 Replies
 
 

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