AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

ican711nm wrote:

Aha! You think it best to replace private medical insurance profits with government medical insurance frauds and/or stupidities. Obama's Government frauds and/or stupidities have already been shown to far exceed private profits by trillions of dollars.

I enjoyed this so much I had to post it again. That "aha" is just fantastic. It's like you've been hunting phantom single payer advocates and you finally found one hiding behind a tree.

Foxfyre wrote:

Good catch, and an extremely important one. Saying that it is 'not now part of the plan' is no different from saying that 'it will be added later' especially when it was a part of his original plan and is supported by most of the Democratic leaders.

What "original plan" are you claiming it was a part of? It wasn't part of his campaign proposal and hasn't been part of anything mentioned by him since.

Quote:

Now, if he had said "I now appreciate that a single-payer medical insurance plan is not in the interest of the American people, I will not support any plan that includes that concept or allows that concept in the future and will veto any plan offered that includes that concept now or would allow it in the future"--if he had said that, you would be seeing every conservative (MAC) and moderate in this country standing up and applauding and praising him.

Yes, perhaps you would (though I doubt you would see moderates applauding). But he was elected by everyone else, a group that continues to outnumber you.

32% Favor Single-Payer Health Care, 57% Oppose
Monday, August 10, 2009

Thirty-two percent (32%) of voters nationwide favor a single-payer health care system where the federal government provides coverage for everyone. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 57% are opposed to a single-payer plan.

Fifty-two percent (52%) believe such a system would lead to a lower quality of care while 13% believe care would improve. Twenty-seven percent (27%) think that the quality of care would remain about the same.

Forty-five percent (45%) also say a single-payer system would lead to higher health care costs while 24% think lower costs would result. Nineteen percent (19%) think prices would remain about the same.

There's wide political disagreement over the single-payer issue. Sixty-two percent (62%) of Democrats favor a single-payer system, but 87% of Republicans are opposed to one. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 22% favor a single-payer approach while 63% are opposed.

Investors oppose a single-payer system by a three-to-one margin. However, a narrow plurality of non-investors favor such a plan.

Data released earlier today shows that 51% of voters fear the federal government more than private insurance companies when it comes to health care decisions. Forty-one percent (41%) have the opposite fear.

Recent polling has shown that the public is fairly evenly divided about the health insurance proposals being made by the president and congressional leaders of his party, but most remain convinced that the plans will raise costs and hurt the quality of the care they receive. Those who feel strongly about the issue are more likely to oppose the reform effort.

As Congress has debated potential reforms, confidence in U.S. health care system has increased. Just 19% of Americans now rate the overall system as poor while 48% say it’s good or excellent.

Voters are fairly evenly divided in their views of those protesting the health care reform plans at congressional town hall meetings, but 49% believe they are genuinely expressing the views of their neighbors. Thirty-seven percent (37%) believe the protests are phony, encouraged by special interest groups and lobbyists.

Most voters believe that middle class tax cuts are more important than new spending on health care.

As July came to an end, Rasmussen Reports provided a summary of recent polling on the health care debate.
--Rasmussen - August 10, 2009

Yes, which goes back to the idea that the more people you can make dependent, the more you solidify your total power and re-election chances.

Yes, which goes back to the idea that the more people you can make dependent, the more you solidify your total power and re-election chances. Just under 50% of the people voting pay little or no federal taxes at all and don't care how much in taxes everybody else has to pay. A sizable chunk of people voting depend on the government via the taxpayer to provide everything they get. He did not get elected on the radical program he is now pushing however, but rather on describing himself as "Reaganesque" and campaigning mostly right of center.

Not childish since over the months you have affirmed everything I am saying here in spades.

And if we HAD mostly MACs among the GOP leadership, I believe the GOP would outnumber the Democrats 10 to 1 by now and most Americans would be proud to call themselves conservatives. The reason that the GOP is in such disarray and has so low approval ratings is that most of the leadership is out of step with most of the American people. In fact I posted polling evidence to support that in the last few days.

Refer back to the opening post for this thread. My thesis then is that the GOP let us down and that is why they were voted out of power. My opinion about that has not changed.

Quote:

Obama said to Congress that a single-payer medical insurance plan is not now part of his plan. Not now? But that is not the same thing as: Not ever!

Good catch, and an extremely important one. Saying that it is 'not now part of the plan' is no different from saying that 'it will be added later' especially when it was a part of his original plan and is supported by most of the Democratic leaders.

Now, if he had said "I now appreciate that a single-payer medical insurance plan is not in the interest of the American people, I will not support any plan that includes that concept or allows that concept in the future and will veto any plan offered that includes that concept now or would allow it in the future"--if he had said that, you would be seeing every conservative (MAC) and moderate in this country standing up and applauding and praising him.

Clunker math...

I guess I must be on the wrong page on this "clunker" stuff...

A vehicle at 15 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 800 gallons a year of gasoline. A vehicle at 25 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 480 gallons a year. So, the average clunker transaction will reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.

They claim 700,000 vehicles - so that's 224 million gallons per year.
That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil?

5 million barrels of oil is about one day's US consumption. And 5 million barrels of oil costs about $350 million dollars at $75 per bbl.
So, we all just spent $3 billion...to save $350 million.

Hmmmmmmmmm. How good a deal was that? But, I'm thinking that they'll probably do a great job with health care, though!

And if we HAD mostly MACs among the GOP leadership, I believe the GOP would outnumber the Democrats 10 to 1 by now and most Americans would be proud to call themselves Republicans.

The reason that the GOP is in such disarray and has so low approval ratings is that most of the leadership is out of step with most of the American people.

In fact I posted polling evidence to support that in the last few days.

Refer back to the opening post for this thread. My thesis then is that the GOP let us down and that is why they were voted out of power. My opinion about that has not changed.

He's gotta be a MAC; he asks some of the most mundane, stupid, questions.

This 'original plan':

Yes, which goes back to the idea that the more people you can make dependent, the more you solidify your total power and re-election chances. Just under 50% of the people voting pay little or no federal taxes at all and don't care how much in taxes everybody else has to pay. A sizable chunk of people voting depend on the government via the taxpayer to provide everything they get. He did not get elected on the radical program he is now pushing however, but rather on describing himself as "Reaganesque" and campaigning mostly right of center.

32% Favor Single-Payer Health Care, 57% Oppose
Monday, August 10, 2009

Thirty-two percent (32%) of voters nationwide favor a single-payer health care system where the federal government provides coverage for everyone. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 57% are opposed to a single-payer plan.

"Do you favor or oppose, "Having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance through an expanded, universal form of Medicare-for all?"
Favor 58%, Oppose 38%, NA/DK 3%"

What a brilliant piece of rhetoric that is, Okester...

"Remember, Obama that claims to care about everyone is the same guy that voted to allow a poor baby that happened to survive an abortion to be killed."


you guys kill me...

The video showing Obama admitting he is a proponent of single payer has been posted twice now.

I wonder if our more liberal friends will ever admit that Obama DOES want single payer.

It is an incremental game they play, and there will be things that will act as triggers that will trigger another increment in the process.