55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 11:03 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Was Don Corleone a good family man ?


Well, he is, of course, a fictional character. But then, so is Newt Gringrich. Which of the two would you describe as being a better family man?

But aside from your silliness, the point of interest here relates to the process we are now watching where the nutty variety of conservatives are turning on each other with an increasing vitriol.

0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 01:20 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Tonight, Mike Gallagher (rightwing radio guy) expressed his "fury" at Bill Kristol, George Will, David Fredoso and Kathleen Parker who are not "real conservatives".

He also described McCain's response in the recent rally, "No, Obama is a a good family man...you don't have to be scared of an Obama presidency" as "McCain sounding like an Obama supporter".

The circular firing squad, locked and loaded.

It may have hurt McCain in terms of political theater, but it was the right thing to do, and he has nothing to regret. I believe some voters needed to see that out of him. He's been a part of a really negative campaign, and with these things happening at the rallies, some republicans might have wanted to stay home because they didn't like what they were associating themselves with. For a moderate republican, this kind of thing was a kinder McCain that they wanted him to be.

He doesn't have my vote due to his politics, but the hat comes off to give a nod for doing the right thing here.

T
K
O
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 07:41 am
@Diest TKO,
A sad irony here is that this brave act by McCain (I'll assume it wasn't mere change of strategy) is really the first instance in a long while of him going against a partisan trend (ie being a maverick). And the loon fringe, with 100% predictability, finds what he did as reprehensible.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 08:33 am
As the worm turns...voices from the right, forced now to recognize the realities of this election, point towards McCain and his campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbjg9Hh17lI&eurl=http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 09:00 am
David Frum, my second-least-favorite Canadian (there's no reason to expect he'll join Conrad Black in jail) finds that other conservatives ('true conservatives', I guess they are) are now hungry for some portion of his intestines...


Quote:
I receive emails from readers every day who tell me that the only possible motive I could have for expressing doubts about the McCain ticket is my desire to attend cocktail parties, appear on TV, apply for a job in the Obama administration etc. Now I see this line of accusation appearing in the Corner too.

Let's develop this thought a little. Suppose it were true? Suppose I were indeed a venal, light-minded chaser after television appearances and social invitations. What difference would it make?

Do my correspondents (and now my Corner colleagues) truly believe that - but for my pitiful media and social ambitions - nobody in America would have noticeed that Sarah Palin cannot speak three coherent consecutive words about finance or economics?

...Perhaps it is our job at NRO is tell our readers only what they want to hear, without much regard to whether it is true. Perhaps it is our duty just to keep smiling and to insist that everything is dandy - that John McCain's economic policies make sense, that his selection of Sarah Palin was an act of statesmanship, that she herself is the second coming of Anna Schwartz, and that nobody but an over-educated snob would ever suggest otherwise.

http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjNiOTBhN2IwMmU1YjJiOTkzZDMxN2VjNWQ5NmFmOTc=

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 04:54 pm
Bill Buckley aftermath...

Quote:
Within hours of my endorsement appearing in The Daily Beast it became clear that National Review had a serious problem on its hands. So the next morning, I thought the only decent thing to do would be to offer to resign my column there. This offer was accepted--rather briskly!--by Rich Lowry, NR's editor, and its publisher, the superb and able and fine Jack Fowler. I retain the fondest feelings for the magazine that my father founded, but I will admit to a certain sadness that an act of publishing a reasoned argument for the opposition should result in acrimony and disavowal.
So, I have been effectively fatwahed (is that how you spell it?) by the conservative movement, and the magazine that my father founded must now distance itself from me. But then, conservatives have always had a bit of trouble with the concept of diversity. The GOP likes to say it's a big-tent. Looks more like a yurt to me.
While I regret this development, I am not in mourning, for I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for. Eight years of "conservative" government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case.
So, to paraphrase a real conservative, Ronald Reagan: I haven't left the Republican Party. It left me.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/christopher-buckley-resig_n_134628.html
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 05:20 pm
And from Rush Limbaugh today...

RUSH: Why is Senator McCain, ladies and gentlemen, shifting strategies nearly weekly as John Harris says? He's been trying to win over Clinton supporters and independents. And the way you win those people is the way you always win elections on our side, you run as a conservative, you run on ideas, you run on policies that promote opportunity, wealth, jobs, families, local communities, education, choice, law enforcement, and national security. You run on the rule of law, such as enforcing immigration laws. You have to have these beliefs in order to articulate them, and you have to have them in your bloodstream and have promoted them throughout your political career, otherwise you're going to be dodging and weaving all over the place responding. If your political career consists of thumbing your nose at conservatism and cutting deals with the left that undermine your own party, making nice with the media, you find yourself without intellectual weapons and political tactics to fend off the leftist ideologue. So you flounder around out there. http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_101408/content/01125110.guest.html
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 06:31 pm
AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Pretty much the same clusterfuck that AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEFORE has been.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 06:39 pm
@blatham,
blatham, pertinent post. I heard that today, and although I might phrase it a bit differently, I agree with Rush for the most part. McCain has made a career of pragmatic views at situations, not grounded necessarily in an underlying philosophy, either conservative or liberal, not thoroughly thought out, and therefore when you do that, you end up being somewhat inconsistent. McCain has made a career of "reaching across the aisle." Where has it gotten him? He has built this reputation with the hope of winning independents and moderates, yet those are the people apparently breaking for Obama, if I read the news correctly.

Still, my best choice is McCain, far better than the alternative.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 07:19 pm
@okie,
Quote:
McCain has made a career of pragmatic views at situations, not grounded necessarily in an underlying philosophy, either conservative or liberal, not thoroughly thought out, ...


McCain has made a career of trying to skew the situation to serve the interests of John McCain.

And your "best" choice was GWB, not once but twice. Do your nation a big favor, Okie, stay home or do a write in for yourself, or better yet, make a solemn promise to never vote again.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 07:28 pm
@JTT,
I will definitely vote, JTT, so that I can at least cancel out one phony bogus Obama vote perpetrated by the corrupt Democratic machine, ACORN. Now I know what community organizing might have included.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 07:32 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

I will definitely vote, JTT, so that I can at least cancel out one phony bogus Obama vote perpetrated by the corrupt Democratic machine, ACORN. Now I know what community organizing might have included.


Desperate and pathetic, Okie. Tell me, how is ACORN making Obama so far ahead in the polls? Even if they were committing large-scale voter fraud - which you have no evidence of - they would have no ability to affect polling.

Cycloptichorn
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 07:58 pm
@okie,
Don't wait 'til you're on your deathbed, like Lee Atwater, to repent, Okie. Be honest for once, admit that political conservatism is a sham, and that you got royally duped.

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Dead and buried.

Quote:


Obama Widens Lead Due To Economy, Voter Backlash Over Negative Ads

Two major factors hurting McCain that emerged in the poll: Sarah Palin and the recent spate of negative ads targeting Obama.

Six in 10 of those surveyed said that Mr. McCain had spent more time attacking Mr. Obama than explaining what he would do as president.

And Palin, who has been leading many of the campaing's personal attacks at fiery rallies in the last two weeks, has seen her favorability rating slipping down to 32 percent and her unfavorability rating climbed 11 points to 41 percent.

Mr. Obama's favorability rating, by contrast, is now at 50 percent - the highest recorded for him thus far by The Times and CBS News.

With the economy dominating the news, several new polls show Barack Obama widening his lead over John McCain, with voters trusting the Democratic candidate to fix the "serious economic crisis" and firmly rejecting the recent spate of negative personal attacks targeted at Obama.

Most dramatically, Obama has widened his lead to double digits, at 14 points, in a NYT/CBS News poll that shows -for the first time - white voters evenly divided between the candidates.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/more-voters-trust-obama-t_n_134701.html

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 08:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
There are other factors with polls, but the poll that really matters, ACORN is a real issue. It is a very corrupt organization, in the pocket and promoted by Democrats, cyclops. And a former community organization that Obama had ties to. I hope Obama is very proud of his work for such a great organization.

By the way, one thing mystifies me, what is so difficult for people that want to vote simply go register? Are people so helpless? We don't need these phoney organizations running scams. Are the Dems trying to steal the election? I think that is part of the game being played if you ask me.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 08:14 pm
@okie,
Quote:
... so that I can at least cancel out one phony bogus Obama vote perpetrated by the corrupt Democratic machine, ACORN.


McCain is a Democrat? Who knew?

Quote:
Sen. McCain Stood With ACORN Rally In 2006

A goldfish's lifetime ago, Sen. John McCain was happy to accept the honors and acclamation of the Service Employees International Union, People for the American Way, UNITE HERE -- and ACORN. Here he is, on Feb. 20, 2006, telling immigration rights activists at a rally in Miami that they "are what makes America special." ACORN co-sponsored the rally, and its volunteers surround McCain, and while there's no evidence that McCain ever formally teamed with the group, the video serves as a reminder that he did not mind being associated with them when the politics of the moment were different.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/a_lifetime_ago_sen_john.php



A good article but I take issue with the part I've underlined. To suggest that a principled maverick like John McCain would pander to some group just to get what he wants and needs at the moment is scurrilous. I hope that this author could point to more than this one incident if he were taken to task by the McCain campaign.
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 08:22 pm
@JTT,
JTT, Mr. Nutcase, I don't even know why I answer your posts, but on this one, just look at who ACORN is registering. I can't help the fact that my candidate, McCain, is a bit naive, which I have pointed out before, which explains what you just posted. Get a life, JTT.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 08:52 pm
@okie,
Quote:
JTT, Mr. Nutcase, I don't even know why I answer your posts,


Because you know, deep down inside, that you are meeting with the truth, and your better nature, the one that you repressed for so many years yearns to be set free, to set you free, Okie.

Quote:
but on this one, just look at who ACORN is registering. I can't help the fact that my candidate, McCain, is a bit naive, which I have pointed out before, which explains what you just posted. Get a life, JTT.


Yeah, look at what ACORN is doing, registering American citizens to allow them to perform the most basic political function. That's something that a real patriot can applaud, eh, Okie?

You call McCain naive, while we both know that he's actually just a self serving opportunist.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 09:47 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Re: blatham (Post 3437931)
blatham, pertinent post. I heard that today, and although I might phrase it a bit differently, I agree with Rush for the most part. McCain has made a career of pragmatic views at situations, not grounded necessarily in an underlying philosophy, either conservative or liberal, not thoroughly thought out, and therefore when you do that, you end up being somewhat inconsistent. McCain has made a career of "reaching across the aisle." Where has it gotten him? He has built this reputation with the hope of winning independents and moderates, yet those are the people apparently breaking for Obama, if I read the news correctly.

okie
I would love to convince you that Rush is just about the worst model for conservative thought and history that you might pick. I'd love to, but it ain't gonna happen.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 04:17 pm
Genuine American conservatism consists of allegiance to those principles upon which our country was conceived and established. All Claims to the contrary are false.

For example:
Quote:
The Declaration of Independence
(Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776)
The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America
...
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.


Quote:
The Constitution of the United States of America
Effective as of March 4, 1789
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
...
Article I. Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
...
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 10:56 am
@blatham,
Quote:

okie
I would love to convince you that Rush is just about the worst model
for conservative thought and history that you might pick.

What are your criteria ?
What arguments have u in support of that conclusion ?
To some degree,
I agree that he is not ideal,
but I 'd like to know your thoughts on that point,
with greater specificity.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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