AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

But I assure you, I have lived long enough and am well versed enough in history to feel that I can confidently counsel you to be very careful what you wish for.

Older stateswoman, isn't it?

I wouldn't describe myself as a 'stateswoman' but I am an older American who was schooled in love and appreciation for what our Country was intended to be. This despite our more indefensible chapters of our history which all countries have. I figure the blood and treasure we have expended to eradicate slavery, discrimination, and unjustifiable oppression here and abroad is the best we can do to pay for our past sins regarding treatment of others. I figure the trillions we have contributed to relief and empowerment of other peoples compensates at least in part for any economic damage we intentionally or inadvertently created for others.

This modern leftist trend of contempt for one's country and contempt for the better things it once stood for and contempt for its Constitution and the faith and respect for flag and country demonstrated by the Founders--such contempt is foreign and alien to me. And I think many neither know nor appreciate the heavy price that has been paid for the privilege to be allowed to be the loyal opposition along with the precious freedoms and liberties that at least some of us are fighting now to preserve.

I wouldn't describe myself as a 'stateswoman' but I am an older American who was schooled in love and appreciation for what our Country was intended to be.

I figure the blood and treasure we have expended to eradicate slavery, discrimination, and unjustifiable oppression here and abroad is the best we can do to pay for our past sins regarding treatment of others. I figure the trillions we have contributed to relief and empowerment of other peoples compensates at least in part for any economic damage we intentionally or inadvertently created for others.

This modern leftist trend of contempt for one's country and contempt for the better things it once stood for and contempt for its Constitution and the faith and respect for flag and country demonstrated by the Founders--all that is foreign and alien to me. And I think many neither know nor appreciate the heavy price that has been paid for the privilege to be allowed to be the loyal opposition along with the precious freedoms and liberties that at least some of us are fighting now to preserve.

We are trying to preserve the best healthcare system in the world while improving it

Well you and your ilk ...

ican, buddy. you are always good for a laff.

We are trying to preserve the best healthcare system in the world

Foxfyre wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

But I assure you, I have lived long enough and am well versed enough in history to feel that I can confidently counsel you to be very careful what you wish for.

Older stateswoman, isn't it?

I wouldn't describe myself as a 'stateswoman' but I am an older American who was schooled in love and appreciation for what our Country was intended to be. This despite our more indefensible chapters of our history which all countries have. I figure the blood and treasure we have expended to eradicate slavery, discrimination, and unjustifiable oppression here and abroad is the best we can do to pay for our past sins regarding treatment of others. I figure the trillions we have contributed to relief and empowerment of other peoples compensates at least in part for any economic damage we intentionally or inadvertently created for others.

This modern leftist trend of contempt for one's country and contempt for the better things it once stood for and contempt for its Constitution and the faith and respect for flag and country demonstrated by the Founders--such contempt is foreign and alien to me. And I think many neither know nor appreciate the heavy price that has been paid for the privilege to be allowed to be the loyal opposition along with the precious freedoms and liberties that at least some of us are fighting now to preserve.

Nice soapbox, foxy, but unfortunately is full of bias and pablum. You were schooled in love and appreciation for what our country was intended to be... It was intended to be a republic run by men, chosen by other men who disagreed with each other almost as vociferously as liberals and conservatives disagree with each other today. Unless you're advocating turning the clock back over 200 years then your argument doesn't wash.

You figure we've paid enough (or the best we can) to eradicate slavery, discrimination, and oppression abroad.

I figure you're both fiscally and morally WRONG. While I don't think we can be the planetary police, I do think there is much, much more that can be done here at home. Past sins? Maybe your God sees these sins as past - mine certainly doesn't.

Modern leftist trend of contempt for country and the "BETTER THINGS IT ONCE STOOD FOR"? Pure garbage -- what contempt? I don't see any contempt for country other than contempt for talking heads who laugh all the way to the bank while those they inflame with their fear-mongering run around like chicken little.

You're big on imagining things, fox. What do you imagine is the personal financial impact on any of those individuals you listed should the horrible liberal plans succeed? I imagine the average personal financial impact on any one of them is zero.

Obama May Need Sense of Crisis to Revive Health-Care Overhaul
By Julianna Goldman and Nicholas Johnston
September 4, 2009

Sept. 4 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama returns to Washington next week in search of one thing that can revive his health-care overhaul: a sense of crisis.

Facing polls showing a drop in his approval, diminished support from independents, factions within his Democratic Party and a united Republican opposition, Obama must recapture the sense of urgency that led to passage of the economic rescue package in February, analysts said.

“At the moment, except for the people without insurance, we’re not in a health-care crisis,” said Stephen Wayne, a professor of government at Georgetown University in Washington. “You do need a crisis to generate movement in Congress and to help build a consensus.”

Obama speaks to labor leaders on Sept. 7 and to a joint session of Congress on Sept. 9 as he attempts to rebuild support for his top domestic priority, one that affects 17 percent of the economy. Lawmakers, trying to extend coverage to millions of uninsured Americans and rein in costs, are considering mandates on employers to provide coverage, new rules for insurers, and creating a government program to compete with private insurers such as Indianapolis-based WellPoint Inc.

Obama Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel said the administration made unprecedented health-care progress in eight months.

‘Not There Yet’

“We gave Congress a charge, we gave them broad outlines, which is the reason we are farther along than any of the five presidents that have tried,” Emanuel said in an interview yesterday. “We’re not there yet, and this speech is intended to finish the job.”

Presidential speeches historically do little to move public opinion significantly, said George Edwards, author of “The Strategic President: Persuasion and Opportunity in Presidential Leadership.”

“This is almost like a Hail Mary, because they know that they’re substantially behind and the trajectory is negative for them,” Edwards said.

Unlike the financial crisis he inherited, the health-care debate is of Obama’s making and places a different burden on him, Edwards said.

“The best thing in presidential leadership is to recognize and exploit opportunities,” said Edwards. “The White House overestimated the nature of the opportunity.”

Stimulus Debate

Obama’s economic stimulus was debated as the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 18 percent from Nov. 4, 2008, to Feb. 13, when Congress approved the legislation. Unemployment had risen to more than 7 percent.

On the stimulus, Obama was able to say “that unless we do X right now, and X is pretty painful and pretty expensive, there is a serious danger in the next few weeks that the entire financial system will come crashing down,” said Bill Galston, a former official in President Bill Clinton’s administration, now a Brookings Institution scholar in Washington.

Emanuel remarked at the time that a crisis was a terrible thing to waste, and Obama pushed for health-care overhaul and energy legislation along with financial and auto bailouts.

He has framed health-care legislation as part of his long- term strategy to improve the economy. Republicans focused on the potential impact on patients. Throughout the summer and in town halls, Republican opponents said Obama wanted a government takeover of the system and creation of panels to decide end-of- life issues.

Democratic Critics

Within the Democratic Party, critics say Obama hasn’t pushed universal health care and others say the overhaul would balloon the federal deficit.

Obama “has said about this issue continually, if it was easy it would have been done by now,” said White House Communications Director Anita Dunn.

Obama’s difficulty on health care is compounded by broader economic worries. While 36 percent of Americans say the economy is getting better, only 10 percent see improvements in their households, according to a CBS poll at the end of August.

“People are not convinced the president’s strategy has helped their family during the economic downturn,” said Robert Blendon, a health-policy pollster at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. “That has forced them to be more skeptical towards the president’s health-care proposals.”

Less than a fifth of Americans say a health-care overhaul will help them personally, compared to 31 percent who think the government’s efforts will hurt, and 46 percent who say it will have no effect, the CBS poll showed.

‘Not a Crisis’

“There is a problem in our health-care system today, and we need reform; it’s not a crisis,” said Ed Gillespie, White House counselor to President George W. Bush. “It’s just people saying this is way too much, way too fast, we don’t know where this money is going and we don’t know where it’s coming from.”

The CBS survey of 1,097 Americans Aug. 27-31 found Obama’s approval fell 12 percentage points from a high of 68 percent in April to 56 percent; the error margin is 3 percentage points.

A survey of 4,518 likely voters by Zogby International Aug. 28-31 put Obama’s approval rating at a record-low 42 percent; it also showed he’s well liked.

“He’s got to get control of his presidency,” said John Zogby, president of Zogby International. “There’s a way out of this. Some of it is going to have to be his personality and his ability to frame messages, which is still good.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a5HawfX.Mxt8

You seem to be unable to acknowledge, much be proud of the millions upon millions of people who live free and safe today because there is a United States of America.

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916.

I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

As for sins, unlike presumably you see yourself, I have never owned slaves or condoned slavery nor, to the best of my knowledge, have I ever improperly discriminated against anybody. In fact I had opportunity to work directly to help eradicate some of the last vestiges of formal discrimination in this country. While I am very glad that chapter in American history is long behind us, I don't feel that I have anything to be ashamed of there. Another principle that separates modern conservatives and liberals is that conservatives feel responsible to atone for their own sins. Liberals seem to want me to atone for their guilt-wracked consciences.

You say in one breath that we haven't paid enough for our past sins and must do much more, and in the next that you don't hold your country in contempt. You seem to be unable to acknowledge, much be proud of the millions upon millions of people who live free and safe today because there is a United States of America.

I am an older American who was schooled in love and appreciation for what our Country was intended to be.

This is why the Founders did not include charity or benevolence or relief of anykind as a responsibility of the Federal government and every President has adhered to that principle until FDR.

figure the blood and treasure we have expended to eradicate slavery, discrimination, and unjustifiable oppression here and abroad is the best we can do to pay for our past sins regarding treatment of others. I figure the trillions we have contributed to relief and empowerment of other peoples compensates at least in part for any economic damage we intentionally or inadvertently created for others.

As for sins, unlike presumably you see yourself, I have never owned slaves or condoned slavery nor, to the best of my knowledge, have I ever improperly discriminated against anybody. In fact I had opportunity to work directly to help eradicate some of the last vestiges of formal discrimination in this country. While I am very glad that chapter in American history is long behind us, I don't feel that I have anything to be ashamed of there. Another principle that separates modern conservatives and liberals is that conservatives feel responsible to atone for their own sins. Liberals seem to want me to atone for their guilt-wracked consciences.