AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

okie, Are you really that stupid? Our state's government has frequently mismanaged their fiduciary responsibilities going back decades, so why are you blaming Obama for our problems? It's not only the California state nor many, if not most, local and county government who have failed - and that includes many conservative states and local governments.

I just wonder often where your brain resides; it certainly isn't in the real world.

OKIE!!!!!! You're back!!!! I missed you!!!!! I was afraid we had lost you.

Yes, President Obama is slipping in the polls, but in fairness to him, almost all Presidents do over time. IMO, the Republicans who supported him fall away first when he proves to be far more extreme left, even embracing the kind of soft Marxism that many of us feared before the election, and this is more than even most liberal Republicans can tolerate. Much of that happened months ago.

Next you see erosion in the Independents' ranks as they gradually lose faith that he will ever be the different kind of politician as advertised or that the change we can believe in is not the change that he promised in the campaign. I think most of the current dip in the polls is among this group.

The polls will become really significant when his own Democrat faithful begin to lose confidence, and that probably hasn't happened all that much yet. He is their guy and they desperately want him to succeed. They sure don't want to have to admit that in many ways, he is beginning to make George W. Bush look pretty good.

The treaty situation is a worry, especially since the most dangerous was announced during all the Michael Jackson adulation and I believe Fox is the only mainstream media source that has given it much play at all. That he is apparently planning to circumvent the Senate to get some of it done should also be a concern--his super majority won't likely choose to embarrass him and reverse what he is promising. And the public is largely uninformed at this time.

But we have had presidents in the past who increased our vulnerability, and it wasn't irreversible later on. We just have to somehow bust that super majority in the Senate and take back the House in 2010 and we'll have enough leverage to weather the storm. And hopefully, President Obama will be a one termer.

What I'm seeing now is a monster health bill that again nobody knows for sure what all is in it--some 1000 pages--that Pelosi will dump on the House without giving members a chance to read or thoroughly research it before the vote. And, should it pass the Senate, the President will no doubt declare that it is sufficiently an 'emergency' that he will again renege on his promise to give we the people time to digest and comment on the legislation before he signs it.

And how is that transparency that was supposed to allow us to see how the timulus monies are spent working out? I can't seem to find much courtesy of the White House. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place? Somebody could direct me to the right place?

Foxie, Are you sure about your crystal ball forecasts about Obama's support?
How did you arrive at your conclusions before they have happened? I would really like to know.

You should apply for a job at these polling companies to show them your skills in projecting how presidential polls will end up. That is a special skill that very few posses; you should be able to name your own price!

As if MACS actually needed any more evidence to illustrate the worst of government incompetence and ineffectiveness and why it is a really bad idea to turn over our healthcare system and 17% of our economy to the Federal government, consider this:





Promo from Newt's new book Real Change

Yeah, I took a few days off, then delayed coming back because arguing with liberals about the obvious seemed to be such a waste of time. I don't know how much more time to waste on this forum, frankly.

The Gingrich video was good. Yes, I have personally shipped thousands of parcels via UPS and FedEx, and have lost one package if my memory serves me correctly, which happened several years ago, and it was insured. I can't say the same for the Postal Service, just yesterday we received the remnants of an envelope and check torn up, in a plastic bag, with apologies from the postal service. At least they apologized.

I think this country has succumbed to a bunch of weak minded, helpless, people, that apparently do not believe in freedom anymore, they would rather let Big Brother, the govamint, take care of them. Society has become a crowd of Michael Jackson freaks. They are more interested in a ticket to the Michael Jackson memorial than being responsible for themselves financially. Foxfyre, we are truly at a critical juncture, with Obamamania attempting to truly change the country of freedom into some weird and helpless nanny state, wherein Lord Obama and his arrogant minions want to run everything. Individual rights and responsibility now falls prey to the desires of the majority, or a very vocal minority that can fool the majority into believing they have their best interests at heart. Talk about gullible! And they have little regard for life, only their own power. Our only hope is to sweep this bunch of con-artists out next election.

If I sound a bit more hardened and dis-illusioned about Obama and the situation, you have it right. He is worse than I feared. And we probably have not seen the worst yet.

Re;Foxfyre and Newt:
Newt has created possibly the single most stupid analogy I've heard this year. The only reason FedEx works is because it deeals with a comparatively small, simple universe of objects, rigidly controls how they can enter the system and how they can move within it (and only allows them to move on carriers it strictly controls). And tracks them incessantly. It is, in other words, extremely authoritarian.

He apparently thinks the U.S. should operate the same way. Talk about a model for an authoritarian, oppressive state, that is it. But then of course that is the true agenda of modern American conservatives, no matter how they mask it--control of the individual and molding him/herinto what they think proper.

How does Newtie plan on implementing something that works like that rigidly controlled model with actual humans? Tattooing a bar code on the back of everyone's neck(not just illegal immigrants, fox, your neck too, because everyone would have to have one for the system to work)? Scanners to read the codes on the doors (and windows) of every building in the country, including your home? Scanners to read the occupants of ev ery, car, truck, and bus on our highways? And every person walking on every road and sidewalk in the country? A central database to check your movements and purchases, every time you buy something, they scan the back of your neck? Without that level of control the system won't work.

Newt would apparently call that a system that works. I call it totalitarian. I call it unconstitutional. But then that's MACs for you.

Foxie, Just wondering; are any MACs receiving extended unemployment benefits including food stamps? Are any MACs taking advantage of the mortgage relief programs?

Have any MACs benefited from any TARP funds?

ci, are you too dumb to see the ploy, give people money so that they can be indebted to the game being played. Thats the game thats played. If you fall for it, which apparently you have, you are mighty dumb indeed. So if we are forced to play the game, then we are to blame for it? Is that your conclusion, ci? No wonder you are too dumb to figure any of this out.

No argument from me, but please don't give up. We have precious little outlet to get the truth out about much of anything in the MSM and talk radio and the internet are the last free mediums that the Leftists have not found a way to control.

I don't argue with the liberals all that much anymore. I finally gave in and put most of the numbnuts on ignore as they add little or nothing to the debate but just attempt to sidetract the issues so the truth will be shouted down or buried and no meaningful discussion can happen.

But forums like this are read; our words and sources and links are copied verbatim or rewritten and posted elsewhere on many other forums. We are giving thousands and thousands ammunition to use. It is the only hope we have to educate what people are still capable of being educated.

We are wise to pick and choose our battles, but we do not dare give up on the war.

okie, are you too dumb to see that it doesn't indebt you to the system--it gives you a chance to get back into the system and get another job or save their hoouse, without starving in the interim? of course MACs don't mind if people starve because MACs turned a blind eye to the signs their policies were enabling the economy to tank.

After viewing that video, the scenario you describe is really what you think Newt is advocating? Or is he possibly suggesting that if you put competent people in charge, they will use the technology that we have available to us already to devise systems that work?

He's makes an analogy between FedEx and the federal government, particularly with respect to immigration. If you make an analogy the two parts should be in some respect comparable. They are not comparable unless you end up with a system like I suggested. If you want the control over everybody's lives that his analogy insecapably implies, then you, as well as he, are completely unAmerican. Which means the analogy is stupid and it fails. Newt is one of the foremost of the people who starved the government of the resources needed to work effectively, and then he blames the government because it doesn't have what it needs.

And, not incidentally, I am a good deal less inclined than Newtie is to call systems like FedEx a "system that works". I deal regularly with one of the major shipping services, which shall remain unnamed, and "authoritarian" is an accurate description of it. For eample, despite repeated requests, they repeatedly left shipments worth hundreds of dollars sitting outside on the front steps of my buiding, unsigned for by anyone, where anyone could walk off with them. It took me a year to figure out a workaround around their rigid delivery system (there were other problems), so that I could actually get my packages within a day of their arrival at their local warehouse. So, no, Newtie, your "system that works" has serious problems too.

No, he made an analogy comparing FedEx and the Federal government and used immigration as an illustration. His presentation was not about immigration perse', but rather how good government could work. Nor did he suggest that government take control over everybody's lives--that is more of a Leftist doctrine that Newt would never condone. (That's one of the problems with using Youtube clips because frequently we don't get the full context of the speaker's intent.)

You made an exceeding meanspirited and ignorant statement that conservatives want people to starve or don't care if people starve. Do you want to stand by that statement? Or perhaps, given the opportunity to do so, you might choose to rephrase it to suggest that ensuring that people don't starve is the motivation behind Obama's policies and without Obama's policies, that would happen. (Good luck on defending that point of view.)

Newt would say--has said actually--that there are far more efficient and effective ways to handle the matter than what Obama is doing.

And that was his whole point with the analogies he was using in that video.

Why don't you read his book. It isn't expensive--your local library probably has a copy--and it is chock full of a game plan of what he thinks government should be doing. Consider what he is saying within the full context of his thesis. And then get back to us on that.

That's funny. I have had no problem in getting FedEx and UPS to deliver packages as I choose. All you have to do is instruct your supplier to specify that a signature is required for delivery, and they are really really good to carry that out to the letter. Also a note of instruction left for the delivery guy is never ignored. Otherwise I appreciate that they will leave packages when nobody is present to receive them. Occasionally, if we are not going to be around for an extended period, I will ask a neighbor to pick them up.

All it takes is paying attention to the system and taking responsibility as necessary.

No, okie, you are so myopic in your views, you don't see the obvious. I've been retired for over ten years, and the government "hand-out" I get is social security and Medicare. Most people who paid into these government programs when we worked receive these benefits, and that includes MACs and other "conservatives."

You'll never "get it," because you are too stupid to comprehend how things work in this country.

We are "forced" to play the games that our government (made up of both liberals and conservatives) establishes for all citizens. What's your problem? If you don't like it here, you can always move out of this country to satisfy your myopia/ignorance.

Liberals have no credibility when it comes to "caring," Foxfyre. They use it to gain political power, but its the power they care about. They care not a whit about people, otherwise they would care about the most innocent, a helpless offspring of theirs, or ours, but they don't. I used to spare this accusation, but have decided to let them have it with both barrels, after all, the truth hurts, and its the truth. If they actually cared about life, they would, but they don't. Its about political power, not about caring about people. The Obama health care plan, or any other government program, is not about caring about people, not at all. The sooner we all realize that, the better we will be able to fight their statist initiatives.

okie, Are you talking about the conservative's advocacy for the unborn fetus? Talk about hypocrisy! You guys believe in less government intrusion into our "private" lives, but you people continue to intrude into private women's lives when it comes to "pro-life" issues. Then, when the baby is born, you totally ignore them.

Thank you for the elementary instructions, fox. Too bad they don't work. I did all that. It didn't work. They left the packages unsigned for,in spite of signatures being specified. They put the packages on delivery trucks in spite of it being specified they were supposed to be held for pickup at their warehouse. The only thing that worked was not putting my address on it at all, but only the address of the warehouse, so they couldn't try to deliver the damned thing, which they would only do when I wasn't there to receive it. You have a sample of two here. okie didn't get a package at allm tho he says insurance covered it. I don't order something so I can collect insurance on it several weeks later. Maybe he does. I order it so that I can use the contents within the parameters of when they say they can deliver it. Newt uses private enterprise as an example of somethin g that works whereas government doesn't. POrivate enterprise bollixes things up as completely as frequently, even with a much simpler, far more controllable system, than dealing with the disparate needs of 300 million people. Bad example, pisspoor analogy, Newt.

Well sorry you're having that problem MJ. It is one I have not had in numerous enterprises in three different states. You must have a really screwed up branch where you are. But yes, they can and do make mistakes of course. Occasionally a shipment is lost or misdelivered. When I was still investigating and adjusting in transit losses, I am convinced that some shipments--especially of precious metals or jewels--were stolen.

But for good service year in and year out, I have no serious quarrel with either FedEx or UPS and after dealing with Federal and State revenue departments, the Motor Vehicle Department, some branches of the U.S. post office, and various other government 'services', I like Newt, admire the efficiency of FedEx and UPS all the more.