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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2009 04:11 pm
@wandeljw,
Both Norris & Beck have just enough intelligence, together, to be considered prime Republican presidential material. Perhaps there could be a four-way ticket in the future if a match up for Sarah could be found.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2009 04:13 pm
@ican711nm,
Grab your musket, Itry and do try to remember not to piss in your powderhorn.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2009 04:20 pm
@ican711nm,
Fighting implies killing and I think you're too much a coward to put your money where your mouth is. Chickenhawk.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2009 04:29 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

So anyway, as a hypothetical, we know what Lincoln and his Congress did when the Southern States seceded in protest of US policy. What would Obama and the current Congress do facing the same kind of problem?


Probably hold a lot of meetings and ask the UN for help.


He would also appear live on TV and express deep concern.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2009 04:30 pm
@H2O MAN,
Only if he can have a teleprompter. Smile
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2009 04:41 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
the president of Canada would immediately order his army of intelligent beavers to attack the Empire of Mexico

Friggin' Americans. The corps you speak of (The Princess of Wales' First Beavers) were decimated at Vimy.

The princess was indeed fond of her beavers.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2009 04:50 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

blatham wrote:

Quote:
the president of Canada would immediately order his army of intelligent beavers to attack the Empire of Mexico

Friggin' Americans. The corps you speak of (The Princess of Wales' First Beavers) were decimated at Vimy.

The princess was indeed fond of her beavers.


http://slumberingbeaverlodge.com/princess_the_beaver.gif
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2009 05:05 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
But I do hope we have enough visionaries however crackpot they may seem to some who are not yet totally trusting sheep and who are still thinking through the possibilities, the probabilities, and who will recognize the signs when they appear.


So long as we have the great nonpartisan soothsayer, Dr. Thomas Sowell, and his army of conservative followers, conjuring up images of a cowardly demoncrat administration that surrenders to a nuclear Iran and a country where our grand-daughters are forced to live under sharia law, our quota of visionaries however crackpot they may seem is more than enough.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 06:01 am
http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-rdo.gif
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 07:01 am
@H2O MAN,
That doesn't even make any sense Squirt.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 07:14 am
We knew, as of election evening, that this creature which is the modern American conservative movement would continue to operate in precisely the manner we see now. But I have to admit that even I am surprised at the degree of nuttiness we're witnessing. The extremity of the claims being made (Sowell, above, is in Glenn Beck territory) is a curiosity. How could it be the case that these people have moved so far towards kookland?

The financial motivations of certain individuals and institutions (like Fox and Clear Channel and Regnery) is clear. But that doesn't tell us why a particular segment of American society are responding, nor why many of the individuals working within those institutions apparently believe some version of this insanity they are peddling.

I've concluded that it is a necessary consequence (psychologically and/or ideologically necessary) of the Manichean and absolutist nature of the movement (yeah, I know, I'm slow). Once one's worldview has moved a certain distance towards such simplistic extremisms, it is easier to proceed to even further extremism than it is to pull back, rethink and recant. A rough (and not very good) analogy is the gambler who has already bet so much on an outcome that he feels his best or only option is to get in even further. Probably, a much better analogy is the individual who detonates his explosive belt so as to make his/her life and world more agreeable and more aligned with the cosmic good.

And, of course, that's the danger of this movement or of any ideology that reaches some critical level of extremism where renouncing itself becomes too psychologically burdensome and effectively impossible.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 07:18 am
@blatham,
Good point blatham.


But when will the radical extremism practiced by conservatives find a leader capable of manufacturing explosive belts?
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 07:27 am
David Frum and Andrew Sullivan (not true modern conservatives in that they can actually change their minds and pull back from prior extremisms) on Sarah Palin as a "future hope" for the movement...
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/why-sarah-isnt-going-away.html
By the by, Sullivan notes Ed Kilgore (at The Democratic Strategist). If you don't know of this fellow and his compatriots there, you ought to. Really quality analyses.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 07:40 am
And (h/t to Sullivan again) here's Krauthammer and Barnes arguing about whether Palin might be a serious candidate for the Presidency. About once a month, Krauthammer says something rational. This is July's allotment filled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l8ts15kIrA

Barnes, along with Kristol of course, were initial supporters pushing Palin forward and still do so. It's very unusual to have Krauthammer in disagreement with the two of them. All of which points to the serious divergence of views among top conservatives on whether Palin represents and electoral hope or an electoral nightmare.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 07:48 am
@parados,
Quote:
when will the radical extremism practiced by conservatives find a leader capable of manufacturing explosive belts?


Just out of interest, I had the thought that I ought to check google for instructions on explosive-belt construction but then decided the query might set off alarm bells with people I'm not interested in having visit my modest home.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 08:44 am
@blatham,


The radical extremism practiced by liberals have such a leader, why don't you query him?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 10:28 am
@H2O MAN,
That makes even less sense, Squirt. You can't really be as dumb as you appear. Tell us that it's all an act, ... please.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 10:56 am
@JTT,


Look around... maybe there is an adult in the room that could explain it to you.
ican711nm
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 11:24 am
Read the following not rationally deniable truth.

Quote:

A CONSERVATIVE MANIFESTO BY MARK R. LEVIN, PAGES 193 " 205.

1. TAXATION

Eliminate the progressive income tax"replace it with a flat income tax or national sales tax"for its purpose is to redistribute wealth, not fund the constitutionally legitimate functions of the federal government.

All residents of the country must be required to pay the tax so they have a stake in limiting its abuse.

Eliminate the automatic withholding of taxes, for it conceals the extent to which the federal government is confiscating income from its citizens.

Eliminate the corporate income tax, for it is nothing more than double taxation on shareholders and consumers, and penalizes wealth and job creation.

Eliminate the death tax, for it denies citizens the right to confer the material value they have created during their lives to whomever they wish, including their family.

All federal income tax increases will require a supermajority vote of three-fifths of Congress.

Limit federal spending each year to less than 20% of the gross domestic product.

2. ENVIRONMENT

Eliminate the special tax-exempt status granted environmental groups, since they are not nonpartisan charitable foundations.

Eliminate special statutory authority granting environmental groups standing to bring lawsuits on behalf of the public, since their main purpose is to pursue the Statist’s agenda through litigation.

Fight all efforts to use environmental regulations to set governmental industrial policies and diminish the nation’s standard of living, such as "cap and trade" to regulate "man-made climate change."

3. JUDGES

Limit the Supreme Court’s judicial-review power, which far exceeds the Framer’s intent, by establishing a legislative veto over Court decisions"perhaps a two-thirds supermajority vote of both houses of Congress, not dissimilar from Congressional override authority of a presidential veto.

Eliminate lifetime tenure for federal judges, given the extra-curricular power they have amassed and their routine intervention in political and policy decisions"which the Constitution leaves to the representative branches.

No judicial nominee should be confirmed who rejects the jurisprudence of originalism.

4. THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE

Sunset all "independent" federal agencies each year, subject to Congress affirmatively reestablishing them.

Require federal departments and agencies to reimburse individuals and enterprises for the costs associated with the devaluation of their private property from the issuance of regulations that compromise the use of their property.

Eliminate unions for federal government employees, since the purpose of a civil service system is to promote merit and professionalism over patronage, and the purpose of federal unions is to empower themselves and promote Statist.

Reduce the civilian federal workforce by 20 percent or more.

5. GOVERNMENT EDUCATION

Eliminate monopoly control of government education by applying the antitrust laws to the National Education Association and American Federation of Teachers; the monopoly is destructive of quality education and competition and is unresponsive to the taxpayers who fund it.

Eliminate tenure for government schoolteachers and college/university professors, making them accountable for the quality of instruction they provide students.

Strip the statist agenda from curricula (such as multiculturalism and global warming) and replace it with curricula that reinforce actual education and the preservation of the civil society through its core principles.

Eliminate the federal Department of Education, since education is primarily a state and local function.

6. IMMIGRATION

Eliminate chain migration, which grants control over immigration policy to aliens and foreign governments, and which the Statist defends to expand his electoral and administrative state constituency.

Secure the nation’s borders and discourage those who violate them"illegal alien and citizen lawbreaker alike"by enforcing the immigration laws.

End multiculturalism, diversity, and bilingualism in public institutions, which beget poverty, animosity, and ethnic balkanization; promote assimilation and unity of citizenship, allegiance to American culture, and English as the official national language.

7. ENTITLEMENTS

Social Security is going bankrupt. Medicare is going bankrupt. Medicaid is going bankrupt. These programs and others have accumulated more than $50 trillion in IOUs due and payable by subsequent generations. Educate the young people about the intergenerational trap the Statist has laid for them"which will steal their liberty, labor, opportunities, and wealth"and build a future electoral force for whom the elixir of entitlements is understood as poisonous snake oil. These programs were created in politics and will have to be addressed in politics. Only in this way can they be contained, limited, and reformed.

Fight all efforts to nationalize the health-care system. National health care is the mother of all entitlement programs, for through it the Statist controls not only the material wealth of the individual but his physical well being. Remind the people that the politicians and bureaucrats, about whom they are already cynical, will ultimately have the final say over their choice of doctors, hospitals, and treatments"meaning the system will be politicized and bureaucratized. Remind them that this human experiment has been tried and has failed in places like Britain and Canada, where patients have been subjected to arbitrary treatment decisions, long waiting periods for lifesaving surgeries, antiquated medical technologies, the denial of high-cost pharmaceuticals available elsewhere, and the inefficient rationing of health care generally. And remind them that despite past utopian promises, the Statist rarely delivers.

8. FOREIGN POLICY AND SECURITY

Ensure that all foreign policy decisions are made for the purpose of preserving and improving American society.

Reject all treaties, entanglements, institutions, and enterprises that have as their purpose the supplementation of America’s best interests, including its physical, cultural, economic, and military sovereignty, to an amorphous "global" interest.

Ensure that America remains the world superpower. Ensure that at all times America’s military forces are prepared for war to dissuade attacks, encourage peace, and, if necessary, win any war.

9. FAITH

Oppose all efforts to denude the nation of its founding justification"that is, God-given unalienable, natural rights that the government can neither confer on the individual nor deny to him. The Statist seeks the authority to do both, which explains his contempt for, or misuse of, faith. Moreover, faith provides the moral order that ties one generation to the next, and without which the civil society cannot survive.

10. THE CONSTITUTION

Demand that all public servants, elected or appointed, at all times uphold the Constitution and justify their public acts under the Constitution.

Oppose all efforts to "constitutionalize" the Statist agenda.

Eliminate limits on and rationing of political free speech through unconstitutional "campaign finance" laws, which benefit incumbent politicians, the media, unions, and other Statist related groups. Any American citizen or group of American citizens should be free to contribute to candidates as they wish, as long as the source, amount, and recipient of the contributions are made known.

Defeat all efforts to unconstitutionally regulate the content of political speech on broadcast outlets, such as radio. The Statist now seeks to consolidate the power he has accumulated by silencing noncompliant voices through a variety of schemes that would regulate broadcast content.

"President Reagan said, Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. "

We conservatives need to get busy.



Quote:
LIBERTY AND TYRANNY
BY MARK R. LEVIN
Page 4.
The Modern Liberal believes in the supremacy of the state, thereby rejecting the principles of the Declaration and the order of the civil society, in whole or part. For the Modern Liberal, the individual’s imperfection and personal pursuits impede the objective of a utopian state. In this, Modern Liberalism promotes what French historian Alexis de Tocquerville described as a soft tyranny, which becomes increasingly more oppressive, potentially leading to a hard tyranny (some form of totalitarianism). As the word liberal is, in its classical meaning, the opposite of authoritarian, it is more accurate, therefore, to characterize the Modern Liberal as a Statist.

The Founders understood that the greatest threat to liberty is an all-powerful government, where the few dictate to the many.

Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 11:35 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:
Limit federal spending each year to less than 20% of the gross domestic product.


I hadn't remembered this one but it is a brilliant concept though I think 20% is too much and it should be stipulated that it be limited to GDP generated through private, not government, enterprise.

(Currently on other forums, liberals are circulating dramatic graphs showing remarkable GNP growth under FDR's 'New Deal' policies. What the graphs don't reflect however, is that most of that was make work projects instigated by the Federal government which explains why the depression continued on and even worsened.)

Congress currently runs on power purchased at our expense by keeping large segments of the population beholden to Congress for thier 'daily bread', etc. But what a magnificent concept Levin proposes that would put the burden on Congress to enact policy, regulation, and a tax code that would encourage and enhance growth and prosperity in the private sector. Otherwise Congress would not have nearly as much of our money to use to buy our votes.
 

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