On the idea of punishing some in order to garner favor with others--or perhaps even to show 'compassion' for others, there is this:
Quote:
Democrats Weigh Health Mandate as Obama Urges Taxing Wealthy
By Laura Litvan and Ryan Donmoyer
June 7 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama wants Congress to consider taxing the wealthy instead of workers to pay for a health-care overhaul, as House Democrats discuss a plan to require health insurance for most Americans.
The Obama administration stepped up efforts to influence health-care legislation today as advisers David Axelrod and Austan Goolsbee appeared on television talk shows to discuss the issue.
The president is trying to avoid broad-based levies such as a Senate proposal to tax some employer-provided health benefits Axelrod said. Instead he is urging lawmakers to reconsider limiting all tax deductions for Americans in the highest tax brackets.
“He made a very strong case for the proposal that he put on the table, which was to cap deductions for high-income Americans, and he urged them to go back and look at that,” Axelrod said on the CNN’s “State of the Union.” Goolsbee, appearing on “Fox News Sunday,” said Obama is “mindful” about how “ordinary Americans are able to foot the bills” and never proposed taxing employee benefits.
House Democrats are weighing a new proposal in response to Obama’s call for legislation to be enacted by August. An outline of the plan obtained by Bloomberg News would require Americans to have insurance with some exceptions.
It would probably exempt those who can prove they can’t find an affordable policy. There could be a tax penalty for those with adequate financial resources who don’t elect to get insurance, according to the outline.
Dr. David Himmelstein, the lead author of the study and an associate professor of medicine at Harvard, notes, "Our findings are frightening. Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy. For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse. And even the best job-based health insurance often vanishes when prolonged illness causes job loss - precisely when families need it most. Private health insurance is a defective product, akin to an umbrella that melts in the rain."
Note the cartoon says tax everyone until they are poor. That, my friend, is very very true. Taxing the producers to give to non-producers, that does what? In short, it destroys production, and gives the wealth that has already been created to people that will squander the wealth. Net result, the country becomes poorer and poorer. For those libs that don't believe it, take a look at communist systems, ultra socialist systems, and there is your proof of exactly what happens.
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cicerone imposter
1
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Sun 7 Jun, 2009 08:09 pm
@Debra Law,
People like Foxie love to protect the rich while the rest of the citizens end up without health insurance, jobs, and their homes. They claim the rich "earned" their money, and taxing them at higher rates is the transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor - all while our federal deficit skyrockets to new highs.
What they fail to see is the negative effect the high cost of health insurance is costing not only our competitive edge in the world marketplace, but the majority of the middle class families losing their health insurance as they lose their jobs. At the current rate of medical care inflation, more Americans will be without health insurance, and any family with a medical emergency will face bankruptcy.
Heck, we should continue to protect those rich fat cats so they can enjoy their airplanes, yachts, and $5,000 a night hotel accommodations. Many of those same people are the ones who put our economy in the current crisis. The Madoffs and Stanfords pay too much in taxes already!
0 Replies
genoves
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Sun 7 Jun, 2009 08:38 pm
Cicerone Imposter wrote:
What they fail to see is the negative effect the high cost of health insurance is costing not only our competitive edge in the world marketplace, but the majority of the middle class families losing their health insurance as they lose their jobs. At the current rate of medical care inflation, more Americans will be without health insurance, and any family with a medical emergency will face bankruptcy.
*****************************************************************
That is a complete crock of ****!
l.The cost of health insurance is NOT costing us our competitive edge in the world marketplace.
0 Replies
genoves
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Sun 7 Jun, 2009 08:45 pm
Health Insurance is NOT the reason why the Chinese are concerned about our debt.
They are concerned because Obuma has set up a Trillion dollar deficit.
Note:
We’re concerned about the security of our assets”
China premier warns of potential dollar collapse
By Patrick Martin
16 March 2009
In a public statement raising questions about the solvency of the US government, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said Friday that China, the largest holder of US treasury debt, was "concerned about the security of our assets."
Wen's remarks came at a news conference following the annual session of China's parliament, where he commented on the economic policies of the new US administration. "President Obama and his new government have adopted a series of measures to deal with the financial crisis," Wen said. "We have expectations as to the effects of these measures. We have lent a huge amount of money to the US. Of course we are concerned about the safety of our assets. To be honest, I am definitely a little worried."
He called on the United States to "maintain its good credit, to honor its promises and to guarantee the safety of China's assets."
Chinese officials fear that the huge borrowing in world credit markets required to finance the US government's budget deficits"a projected $5 trillion over the next four years according to an estimate released by the Obama administration last month"will lead to a decline in the value of the dollar.
Since Beijing now holds about $1 trillion in dollar-denominated assets, including nearly $700 billion in US Treasury debt, a decline in the value of the US currency would hit China hard.
Wen added that while concerned about the safety of its dollar holdings, Beijing would "at the same time also take international financial stability into consideration, because the two are inter-related." This underscores the conservative role of the Chinese regime, which places the defense of world capitalism at the center of its policy.
US officials reacted with repeated reassurances about the value of the dollar and the safety of the dollar-denominated assets held by Chinese and other overseas investors.
White House economic adviser Lawrence Summers defended the record of US Treasury borrowing, saying Friday that dollar holders would suffer much more if full-scale deflation sets in and US gross domestic product collapses.
A Treasury spokeswoman declared, "The US Treasury market remains the deepest and most liquid market in the world." White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs added, "There's no safer investment in the world than in the United States."
President Obama followed up Saturday, during a joint media appearance with visiting Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva at the White House, declaring that, "Not just the Chinese government, but every investor can have absolute confidence in the soundness of investments in the United States."
Obama depicted the influx of dollars into the United States as an endorsement of the future prospects of American capitalism. "There is a reason why even in the midst of this economic crisis you have seen actual increases in investment flows here in the US," he said. "I think it is a recognition that the stability not only of our economic system but also our political system is extraordinary."
The driving force of this influx of capital is fear rather than confidence, however. Investors are pulling out of weaker regions like eastern Europe and southeast Asia, as well as Africa and Latin America. They are also shifting from the purchase of stocks and bonds issued by American banks and corporations, now regarded with great distrust, in favor of government-issued debt instruments.
The US fiscal deficit has mushroomed. During the first five months of fiscal 2009 (October 2008 through February 2009), the federal budget deficit tripled compared to the same period the previous fiscal year, growing from $265 billion to $764.5 billion, the largest ever. The five-month deficit is already nearly 70 percent larger than the full-year deficit of $459 billion for fiscal 2008.
Writing in the Financial Times on March 12, Paul Kennedy, Yale University professor and author of The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers, argued that the Obama stimulus program would have a destabilizing effect on world financial markets: "no one is asking who will purchase the $1,750bn of US Treasuries to be offered to the market this year - will it be the east Asian quartet, China, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea (all with their own catastrophic collapses in production), the uneasy Arab states (yes, but to perhaps one-tenth of what is needed), or the near-bankrupt European and South American states? Good luck! If that colossal amount of paper is bought this year, who will have ready funds to purchase the Treasury flotations of 2010, then 2011, as the US plunges into levels of indebtedness that could make Philip II of Spain's record seem austere by comparison?"
According to an estimate by Merrill Lynch, US Treasury notes have produced Chinese investors a 2.7 percent loss this year in terms of the Chinese currency, the yuan. Beijing is in a bind, however, since any effort to unload a significant part of its massive dollar holdings could flood the market and trigger a financial panic, with devastating effects on the value of all dollar-denominated securities, including its own investments.
Objective processes are undermining the longstanding symbiotic relationship between Beijing and Washington, however. The US slump has produced a massive drop in purchases of Chinese goods. Chinese exports plunged 25.7 percent in February, slashing the country's trade surplus from $39.1 billion to $4.8 billion. Continuation of this trend means China will earn correspondingly fewer dollars to invest in US government bonds.
The mounting conflicts between the two major powers find expression not only on the financial plane, but in diplomatic and security issues. Wen's statement of concern over the dollar was issued only days after the highly publicized clash between US and Chinese naval vessels off the coast of Hainan Island. Chinese vessels sought to force the USNS Impeccable out of an area, about 75 miles offshore, where it was conducting surveillance of traffic in and out of China's biggest submarine base.
President Obama dispatched a guided-missile destroyer to the South China Sea on Thursday, armed with torpedoes and missiles, to escort the Impeccable as it continues its surveillance mission. Obama later met with Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi at the White House.
The next day came Wen's declaration about the dollar, and then a day later a Chinese consortium signed a $3.2 billion natural gas deal with Iran. Beijing effectively thumbed its nose at the US policy"escalated by Bush and continued by Obama"of seeking to undermine the Iranian regime economically. The three-year deal involves extensive Chinese engineering assistance to the development of the South Pars gas field under the Persian Gulf seabed, in return for gas deliveries to Chinese customers.
0 Replies
Foxfyre
1
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Sun 7 Jun, 2009 09:00 pm
Even as the U.S. President and Congress are doing their damndest to push us further and further left, it appears the reverse is happening in Europe. We should probably exercise some caution in how to interpret this as the definition of 'liberal' and 'conservative' over there is frequently different than it is over here:
Quote:
Conservatives racing ahead in EU parliament voting
Associated Press Writers
Constant Brand And Robert Wielaard
Sun Jun 7, 7:01 pm ET
BRUSSELS " Conservatives raced toward victory in some of Europe's largest economies Sunday as initial results and exit polls showed voters punishing left-leaning parties in European parliament elections in France, Germany and elsewhere.
Some right-leaning parties said the results vindicated their reluctance to spend more on company bailouts and fiscal stimulus amid the global economic crisis.
First projections by the European Union showed center-right parties would have the most seats " between 263 and 273 " in the 736-member parliament. Center-left parties were expected to get between 155 to 165 seats.
Right-leaning governments were ahead of the opposition in Germany, France, Italy and Belgium, while conservative opposition parties were leading in Britain and Spain.
Greece was a notable exception, where the governing conservatives were headed for defeat in the wake of corruption scandals and economic woes.
Germany's Social Democrats headed to their worst showing in a nationwide election since World War II. Four months before Germany holds its own national election, the outcome boosted conservative Chancellor Angela Merkel's hopes of ending the tense left-right "grand coalition" that has led the European Union's most populous nation since 2005.
"We are the force that is acting level-headedly and correctly in this financial and economic crisis," said Volker Kauder, the leader of Merkel's party in the German parliament.
France's Interior Ministry said partial results showed the governing conservatives in the lead, with the Socialists in a distant second and the Europe Ecologie environmentalist party a close third.
French Socialists said their defeat signaled a need to rethink left-wing policies if they are to have any hope of unseating President Nicolas Sarkozy.
An EU estimate showed that only 43 percent of 375 million eligible voters cast ballots in European parliament elections, a record low amid widespread disenchantment with the continentwide legislature.
MORE HERE: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_on_re_eu/european_elections
BRUSSELS " Conservatives raced toward victory in some of Europe's largest economies Sunday as initial results and exit polls showed voters punishing left-leaning parties in European parliament elections in France, Germany and elsewhere.
Some right-leaning parties said the results vindicated their reluctance to spend more on company bailouts and fiscal stimulus amid the global economic crisis.************************************************
Wonderfu l--Now, one can only hope for the following:
l. Ahmadminejad's defeat at the polls on June 12th 2009( unfortunately unlikely because of his backing by the AYATOLLAH KOMEINI.
2, The erosion of the Democratic Party in November 2010 because of the incredible deficit spending by Obuma as well as the worst Unemployment Numbers in 25 years( This is not a sure thing because of the brainless bloc voting by blacks and Hispanics)
0 Replies
ican711nm
0
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Mon 8 Jun, 2009 10:39 am
Barach Obama and those who aid him are thieves. Barach Obama and those who aid him are stealing wealth from those who lawfully earn it, and giving it to those who do not lawfully earn it.
Quote:
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Article II Section 1. The President … Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." …
Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.
Article VI. 3rd paragraph. The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
0 Replies
ican711nm
1
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Mon 8 Jun, 2009 10:59 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
Ican, I know that you are committed to your point of view on this, but while I agree with at least some of the basis of your conviction, are you willing to trade Barack Obama for Joe Biden? If you don't like what Obama says when he's out impressing the world, can you imagine a Biden who doesn't follow a teleprompter all that well? And if we impeach both simultaneously, are you looking forward to a President Pelosi?
I think the focus needs to be on sounding those alarms you are protesting, and to educate the people in language they can understand what it means to embrace this or that policy or concept so that we can slow down the destruction through public opinion. And then lets hope and pray some leaders who understand that are raised up before the next election.
(1) Yes, I am willing to trade Barack Obama for Joe Biden. Biden, will be far less effective that Obama in destroying the USA economy.
(2) Do not impeach Biden until there is just cause to impeach him, but his general incompetence will save us until he is voted out of office in 2012.
(3) Pelosi is far more likely to be removed from speaker of the house by the Democrats next year than Biden is to be impeached before January 20, 2013.
(4) I think a determined effort to impeach Barach Obama even without success will itself do far more to educate and influence American opinion than any other education effort.
(5) I think a determined effort to impeach Barach Obama even without success will itself do far more to get "some leaders who understand that are raised up before the next election" in 2012.
Well, while acknowledging the reasonableness and common sense of your argument--I guess I agree that Biden wouldn't be worse--I can't support you in this one.
We have a French restaurant owner gushing over Obama as a customer and proclaiming that he 'saw God'. We have commentary on MSNBC proclaiming Obama as a 'god' of the nation and of the world. We have millions who don't care who he is or what he says or what he does or what he stands for who have proclaimed him the messiah and savior and who grovel and worship at his feet with orgasmic devotion.
You take him down in an impeachment and you make him a martyr of the likes of which this nation has never seen and you direct fury at the Repubican Party in unprecedented proportions. You make it impossible for a Republican or conservative President to govern.
No, we have to expose that the Emperor often has no clothes and thereby restore him to mortal status in the eyes of the people. We have to expose the flaws in the policies and practices and educate the people. We can't impeach him.
In conclusion ... I am not particularly in favor of making these points part of the basic foundation of a party.
I agree! We should focus on changing the leadership of the Republican Party to lead restoration of our Constitutional Republic as defined by the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the USA.
But step (1) is to get someone in the House to make a motion to impeach Barack Obama, and someone else to second the motion. Then the discussion that follows will be a prime way to educate the American voters to want restoration of our Constitutional Republic as defined by the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the USA.
There is no hysteria among the general public about Obama being a god. Only the extreme right blogosphere is raising a fuss over such minor incidents.
I'm sorry but the evidence strongly suggests otherwise. You apparently haven't observed any of the rallies or organized speech gatherings. I have. Also as a former media type and a long time media watcher, I note what is said, inferred, and implicated:
In France. . .
Quote:
. . . .When dining out Saturday night at a no-star bistro, La Fontaine de Mars, the presidential party was served water, Coke and table wine to accompany foie gras, lamb and steak with shallots, and paid for meals "like any client," said owner Jacques Boudon. "It's just what they wanted."
"And I think they were very happy since they stayed three-quarters of an hour after dining," he said by telephone.
Boudon was over the moon.
The table had been reserved 10 days earlier but he only knew his guests were the Obamas that morning.
You take him down in an impeachment and you make him a martyr of the likes of which this nation has never seen and you direct fury at the Repubican Party in unprecedented proportions. You make it impossible for a Republican or conservative President to govern.
No, we have to expose that the Emperor often has no clothes and thereby restore him to mortal status in the eyes of the people. We have to expose the flaws in the policies and practices and educate the people. We can't impeach him.
Well finally you and I have a very important as well as a rational disagreement to discuss!
I think an impeacment effort is far more likely to achieve exposing "that the Emperor often has no clothes and thereby restore him to mortal status in the eyes of the people," than continuing the exposure of Obama by a widely distributed set of organizations of halfway criticisms. Criticism of Obama must be organized, focused and concentrated to be effective. An impeachment effort is our best way to accomplish this.
Don't forget: the successful impeacment of Clinton, despite the fury of the left, was followed by an alleged Republican President ...
I say let's take on the probable fury of the left and not chicken out on what will prove their undoing as a result! Their fury too is more likely to result in our election of a real Republican President.
There is no hysteria among the general public about Obama being a god. Only the extreme right blogosphere is raising a fuss over such minor incidents.
I'm sorry but the evidence strongly suggests otherwise. You apparently haven't observed any of the rallies or organized speech gatherings. I have. Also as a former media type and a long time media watcher, I note what is said, inferred, and implicated:
In France. . .
Quote:
. . . .When dining out Saturday night at a no-star bistro, La Fontaine de Mars, the presidential party was served water, Coke and table wine to accompany foie gras, lamb and steak with shallots, and paid for meals "like any client," said owner Jacques Boudon. "It's just what they wanted."
"And I think they were very happy since they stayed three-quarters of an hour after dining," he said by telephone.
Boudon was over the moon.
The table had been reserved 10 days earlier but he only knew his guests were the Obamas that morning.
Those are exactly the two news items that I am referring to. The general public has totally ignored those two stories. Only the far right blogosphere has reacted to those two stories.
You take him down in an impeachment and you make him a martyr of the likes of which this nation has never seen and you direct fury at the Repubican Party in unprecedented proportions. You make it impossible for a Republican or conservative President to govern.
No, we have to expose that the Emperor often has no clothes and thereby restore him to mortal status in the eyes of the people. We have to expose the flaws in the policies and practices and educate the people. We can't impeach him.
Well finally you and I have a very important as well as a rational disagreement to discuss!
I think an impeacment effort is far more likely to achieve exposing "that the Emperor often has no clothes and thereby restore him to mortal status in the eyes of the people," than continuing the exposure of Obama by a widely distributed set of organizations of halfway criticisms. Criticism of Obama must be organized, focused and concentrated to be effective. An impeachment effort is our best way to accomplish this.
Don't forget: the successful impeacment of Clinton, despite the fury of the left, was followed by an alleged Republican President ...
I say let's take on the probable fury of the left and not chicken out on what will prove their undoing as a result! Their fury too is more likely to result in our election of a real Republican President.
Yeah it's annoying to have to struggle to find something to fight about.
I do agree that we don't want to elect another RINO if that can be avoided. And while I think it despicable to WANT a President to fail just to make my own party look better, and I won't play that game, it has been suggested that a rabidly leftist Democrat President was the GOP's best hope to regain power as it will expose the flaws and weaknesses in liberal theology. I think that is a really destructive way of looking at it, and, as it is turning out, I was right.
But we can't get around the Obama charisma or the Obama mystique that automatically assigns to us the weakest hand in the court of public opinion. So when you hold the weakest hand, the only way to win is via tactical strategy and that doesn't include a full frontal charge, bugles blowing, and flags flying.
Our only hope is to expose the truth and hope there are still enough people with the brains to recognize it.
Some of my favorite Sowell quotes illustrating truths that must be taught and/or relearned:
"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it”
"One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain”
"No matter how disastrously some policy has turned out, anyone who criticizes it can expect to hear: "But what would you replace it with?" When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with?”
"You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.”
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong."
Foxie produces two YouTube links, and she thinks that's "evidence strongly suggests..." Where's the major media coverage like Reuters, NYT, Washington Post, LAT, BBC, NBC, ABC and all the others?
The only place it shows any "evidence" is in your own brain.
