55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:14 pm
@ican711nm,
Obama's budget for the 8 years, 2009 through 2016, predicts a total deficit of $6,789 billion. Bush's total budget deficit for the 8 years, 2001 through 2008, was less than $1,962 billion.

Therefore Obama's projected 8 year budget deficit is 3.46 (i.e., $6,789/$1,962 ) times Bush's actual 8 year deficit .

On a SIMPLISTIC SCALE 0 to 100 measured on the basis of the size of actual or predicted deficits, if Bush is a 10, then Obama is 3.46 times that, or 34.6.

That clearly means Obama is much more than 3 times as SIMPLISTIC as was Bush!

The TEA PARTY attendees understand this, and understand that Obama's administration must be ended as soon as lawfully permissible.

The governor of Texas recognizes that Obama's SIMPLISTIC MANAGEMENT of the federal government, including its repeated violations of the US Constitution, justifies his state seceding, if the federal government continues to violate its contract--the Constitution of the USA as lawfully amended--with his state and each of the other 49 states. If the federal government persists in violating this contract, each and every state of the union will be legally justified in seceding from the United States of America. They will then be further justified in forming a new union
in which the federal government is better prevented from violating its contract with each state.

Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
The Declaration of Independence
(Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776)
The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Quote:

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=simplistic&x=23&y=10
Main Entry: sim·plis·tic Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: ()sim|plistik, -tk
Function: adjective
: of, relating to, or characterized by simplism
- sim·plis·ti·cal·ly \-tk()l, -tk-, -li\ adverb

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=simplism&x=27&y=8
Main Entry: sim·plism Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: simplizm
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
Etymology: French simplisme, from simple simple, single + -isme -ism
: OVERSIMPLIFICATION; especially : the tendency to concentrate on a single aspect (as of a problem) to the exclusion of all complicating factors <division of mankind into workingmen and capitalists suffers from the fallacy of simplism -- M.R.Cohen>
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:18 pm
@ican711nm,
Where do you get these numbers. Bush doubled the deficit from over five trillion to over 10 trillion. O said that he will halve the deficit by the time he leaves office.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:18 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Obama's budget for the 8 years, 2009 through 2016, predicts a total deficit of $6,789 billion. Bush's total budget deficit for the 8 years, 2001 through 2008, was less than $1,962 billion.

Therefore Obama's projected 8 year budget deficit is 3.46 (i.e., $6,789/$1,962 ) times Bush's actual 8 year deficit .



Don't forget to add the costs of the war to Bush's deficit additions. They were off-budget but we spent the monies just the same.

Cycloptichorn
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:25 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:
The governor of Texas recognizes that Obama's SIMPLISTIC MANAGEMENT of the federal government, including its repeated violations of the US Constitution, justifies his state seceding


http://danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/dancart3972.jpg
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:39 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
the vast majority don't have the time or inclination to do anything more than the most cursory research on political events.


Ican, you and I discuss politics on A2K every single say. Even if you disagree with my political points, you could never claim that I do not pay attention to politics and do not study the issues. You know quite well that I do.

However, ask the average person: what was the goal of the Teabagging rallies? And you will get anything ranging from complete ignorance to falsehoods to conflicting answers. For there was no clear goal; just a lot of complaining about various topics.

I claim your research is "the most cursory research on political events." Your research persistently neglects the real issues TEA PARTY attendees--black, white, brown, and red skinned--have with the Obama administration.

My wife and I attended one of those TEA PARTIES in our small Texas town. We know what the over 1,000 attendees there know. They were all rationally reasoning and at the same time angry that the Obama Administration was going even further than the Bush administration in abanding support for the Constitution of the USA. They want that stopped and said so in the signs they made and the words they spoke. They want to participate in additional TEA PARTIES throughout the USA on July 4, 2009. One or two of these TEA PARTIES will be held in Washington, D.C.

In my opinion, it would be ideal if the D.C. TEA PARTIES surround the Capital and the Whitehouse, as well as occur in thousands of towns throughout America.

By the way, we all also know that it took less than a third of our population to support and win our 1776 through 1783 revolution.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:42 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
Where do you get these numbers.

I got those numbers from here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/pdf/hist.pdf
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:45 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Don't forget to add the costs of the war to Bush's deficit additions. They were off-budget but we spent the monies just the same.

Those numbers are the result of including both on and off budget expenditures.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 07:53 pm
@old europe,
On a SIMPLISTIC SCALE 0 to 100, measured by size of deficits, Bush is 10 and Obama is more tnan 30.

It really is time to acknowledge that Bush is no longer President of the United States. Obama is now president of the United States. What is Obama's justification for managing the US economy worse than did Bush?
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 08:59 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Don't forget to add the costs of the war to Bush's deficit additions. They were off-budget but we spent the monies just the same.

Those numbers are the result of including both on and off budget expenditures.


Hmm. Are you sure? You state:

Quote:

Obama's budget for the 8 years, 2009 through 2016, predicts a total deficit of $6,789 billion. Bush's total budget deficit for the 8 years, 2001 through 2008, was less than $1,962 billion.


But, if Bush's budget deficit for 8 years was less than two billion, how did our debt go up by much more than that?

From the Treasury dept's website, a tool which lets you search for specific dates -

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway

01/19/2001 5,727,776,738,304.64
01/16/2009 10,628,881,485,510.23

Now, I don't know how you do math, but I see a 5 trillion dollar difference there. If Bush's budgets were only 2 trillion in total deficit, how did 5 trillion get added to the National debt? Surely some came from interest payments; but not that much.

Quote:
Therefore Obama's projected 8 year budget deficit is 3.46 (i.e., $6,789/$1,962 ) times Bush's actual 8 year deficit .


It does not appear to be so, if you look at the actual numbers.

Cycloptichorn
candide
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 10:10 pm
WE WIN!

Conservatives Fail

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090418/cb-obama-summit/images/cc14010e-f1c5-4bfb-b1ad-2fbcf80f1344.jpg
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 06:18 am
@candide,
Who is "we," a bunch of Marxists?
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 07:06 am
@okie,
I think "we" would be those that don't hate America.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 07:28 am
@ican711nm,
I saw nothing that backed up your numbers. Can you give me the page numbers supporting your assertions?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 07:30 am
@ican711nm,
What finally got us out of the great depression was government spending on the eve of WWII. In that case it was military spending. This supports O's heavy spending to get us out of the current, and deepening, depression.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 07:33 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

I think "we" would be those that don't hate America.

Chavez doesn't hate America? LOL!!!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:08 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

What finally got us out of the great depression was government spending on the eve of WWII. In that case it was military spending. This supports O's heavy spending to get us out of the current, and deepening, depression.


No it doesn't. Defense spending overall, both in recession and in times of great prosperity, has proved net benefits in economic stimulus mostly because it generates real jobs in the private manufacturing sector that create a broad ripple effect throughout the economy. That does not happen with targeted pork barrel projects that provide only very localized temporary jobs and produces little ripple effect throughout the rest of the economy.

That's why FDR's grandiose spending initiatives had little or no effect in pulling us out of the depression. Had FDR lowered taxes and prodded incentives for the private sector to take risks and start creating permanent jobs again, the depression would likely have been significantly shortened even without a WWII.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:30 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:


No it doesn't. Defense spending overall, both in recession and in times of great prosperity, has proved net benefits in economic stimulus mostly because it generates real jobs in the private manufacturing sector that create a broad ripple effect throughout the economy. That does not happen with targeted pork barrel projects that provide only very localized temporary jobs and produces little ripple effect throughout the rest of the economy.


Wait, defense spending creates real, private-sector jobs; but other spending does not? You sure about that?

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:50 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Yes I am reasonably certain of that--not that other spending does not create private sector jobs, but defense spending generally creates far more permanent kinds of private sector jobs.

Defense spending in the private sector is mostly for manufactured products. Such spending does indeed create jobs plus the products manufactured need parts and raw materials that create jobs elsewhere. Even construction projects are usually on a large scale. Because of the immense expanse of the US defense complex, when the Pentagon orders something, it is usually a whole lot of whatever they order so the contracts are usually long runnng spanning many months or years. That is why a defense contract is one of the most lucrative and coveted contracts.

A new bridge or other such purchases uses limited local materials that are usually already in inventory, employ local people on a temporary basis, and when it is done, the economic stimulus stops. Whatever economic stimulus is generated is highly localized and limited.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:58 am
@Foxfyre,
Defense spending does create jobs, but it is not justified at the current levels, because the world and form of warfare has changed.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 10:00 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Yes I am reasonably certain of that--not that other spending does not create private sector jobs, but defense spending generally creates far more permanent kinds of private sector jobs.

Defense spending in the private sector is mostly for manufactured products. Such spending does indeed create jobs plus the products manufactured need parts and raw materials that create jobs elsewhere. Even construction projects are usually on a large scale. Because of the immense expanse of the US defense complex, when the Pentagon orders something, it is usually a whole lot of whatever they order so the contracts are usually long runnng spanning many months or years. That is why a defense contract is one of the most lucrative and coveted contracts.

A new bridge or other such purchases uses limited local materials that are usually already in inventory, employ local people on a temporary basis, and when it is done, the economic stimulus stops. Whatever economic stimulus is generated is highly localized and limited.


Well, if we kept spending as much on a yearly basis on other stimulus as we did on defense spending, jobs would be created in a similar fashion in other industries. There's nothing special about defense spending, it's just prolonged and ongoing. So by your argument, we should just keep funding jobs for stuff our country needs, as stimulus...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.13 seconds on 05/05/2025 at 07:12:20