55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 01:30 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well, you have, yourself, just amply demonstrated the truth of my argument.

You presume to know what others think, know and don't know, and that those who oppose you are merely "spoiled white folks ...." . In all of it you don't acknowledge that there is any legitimacy to perspectives that are different from your own.

There are words commonly used to describe that state of mind, but I won't bother to repeat them here.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 01:38 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Well, you have, yourself, just amply demonstrated the truth of my argument.

You presume to know what others think, know and don't know, and that those who oppose you are merely "spoiled white folks ...." . In all of it you don't acknowledge that there is any legitimacy to perspectives that are different from your own.

There are words commonly used to describe that state of mind, but I won't bother to repeat them here.


You are of course welcome to hold any opinion you wish about my opinions, George, but you will note that I, unlike yourself, do not presume to call you out for things you did not say. I'm sure you could agree that I can make all sorts of risible comments about your 'beliefs' based on an inference of words you wrote. Is that the sort of behavior you wish to see me engage in when we are discussing things?

It is not pleasant to be accused of saying things that you didn't say.

As for the validity of the 'different perspectives,' I'll let the esteemable John Cole answer in my place:

Quote:

You know what really irritates me about the tea parties? The basic fact that if right now, it were President John McCain and not President Obama, and nothing else had changed, these tea parties wouldn’t exist. You know it, I know it, and even the teabaggers know it. It is just such transparent bullshit that it is offensive. The most these guys ever did during the last lost eight years was put a limp Porkbusters logo on their website, but now that we have President Malcom X George McGovern Shabazz, they are freaking out like there is no tomorrow. So absurd.


So absurd is absolutely correct. Nobody is buying the bullshit being peddled by the Republican party on any level these days.

I do not acknowledge the legitimacy of these protests and decry the idiocy which has led your side to believe they will gain any sort of traction whatsoever out of them. At this point, scanning the various reports covering them, it seems to have been a combination of a joke and a failure.

I would also challenge you to provide a single picture of a non-white person at one of these protests - seriously. I've been looking for one and have been unable to find one so far. It seems to be exclusively White America who is bitching about having to pay higher taxes.

While I wouldn't dream of claiming that the current Dem majority is permanent, it does seem that it will be around for at least the next four to eight years, simply based on the numerical advantage the Dems hold in the House and Senate. Therefore, I will repeat my earlier advice to you right-wingers: Get used to it. Because the country is going to be ran by Liberals for the next several years no matter what you do. This childish puling about taxes going up is unbecoming and will accomplish nothing.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 01:49 pm
OTA (i.e., Obama The Abomination) is acting like he thinks he can bypass the "supreme law of the land" with his executive orders. The USA does not grant the President that power. OTA will soon discover that those who ordinarily enforce federal law will refuse to enforce OTA's executive orders that bypass the Constitution.

It is unconstitutional for OTA to steal via federal taxes what people have lawfully earned, and give it to people who have not lawfully earned it.

It is unconstitutional for OTA to tax dollars of lawfully earned gross personal income at non-uniform non-flat tax rates.

It is unconstitutional for OTA to require states to comply with federal orders directing state spending.

TAX ENOUGH ALREADY PARTY
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 01:51 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

OTA (i.e., Obama The Abomination) is acting like he thinks he can bypass the "supreme law of the land" with his executive orders. The USA does not grant the President that power. OTA will soon discover that those who ordinarily enforce federal law will refuse to enforce OTA's executive orders that bypass the Constitution.

It is unconstitutional for OTA to steal via federal taxes what people have lawfully earned, and give it to people who have not lawfully earned it.

It is unconstitutional for OTA to tax dollars of lawfully earned gross personal income at non-uniform non-flat tax rates.

It is unconstitutional for OTA to require states to comply with federal orders directing state spending.

TAX ENOUGH ALREADY PARTY


Ican, when did you make a single post complaining about Bush's repeated and abusive use of signing statements?

Never. You don't really give a **** about this; you just don't like Obama and Liberals in general, and are casting about for something to complain about.

Hypocrisy, thy name is - Ican!

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 01:55 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
While I wouldn't dream of claiming that the current Dem majority is permanent, it does seem that it will be around for at least the next four to eight years, simply based on the numerical advantage the Dems hold in the House and Senate. Therefore, I will repeat my earlier advice to you right-wingers: Get used to it. Because the country is going to be ran by Liberals for the next several years no matter what you do. This childish puling about taxes going up is unbecoming and will accomplish nothing.

This childish wishing it be so of yours dooms you for significant disappointments. You will first see increasing numbers of Dems in both the House and Senate start to pull away from support of OTA's orders.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 02:02 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican, when did you make a single post complaining about Bush's repeated and abusive use of signing statements?

Early in 2007! And thereafter.

I was much too slow to respond to Bush's violations of the Constitution. I'm learning that you are much too slow to respond to OTA's violations of the Constitution. You should have much less difficulty wising up to OTA's violations, because they are so much greater and so much more blatant than were Bush's.

Domestically, Bush was bad. OTA is far, far, ... far worse.

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 02:06 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican, when did you make a single post complaining about Bush's repeated and abusive use of signing statements?

Early in 2007! And thereafter.

I was much too slow to respond to Bush's violations of the Constitution. I'm learning that you are much too slow to respond to OTA's violations of the Constitution. You should have much less difficulty wising up to OTA's violations, because they are so much greater and so much more blatant than were Bush's.

Domestically, Bush was bad. OTA is far, far, ... far worse.


Your referring to Obama as an 'Abomination' is racist speech and you really should cut it out.

Can you provide a link to a post from 2007 or whenever, where you complained specifically about Bush's use of signing statements? I wager you cannot.

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 02:20 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican, when did you make a single post complaining about Bush's repeated and abusive use of signing statements?

Early in 2007! And thereafter.

I was much too slow to respond to Bush's violations of the Constitution. I'm learning that you are much too slow to respond to OTA's violations of the Constitution. You should have much less difficulty wising up to OTA's violations, because they are so much greater and so much more blatant than were Bush's.

Domestically, Bush was bad. OTA is far, far, ... far worse.


Your referring to Obama as an 'Abomination' is racist speech and you really should cut it out.

Can you provide a link to a post from 2007 or whenever, where you complained specifically about Bush's use of signing statements? I wager you cannot.

Cycloptichorn


Who gives a ****? If you don't like his posts, don't read them but quit whining about them for fucks sake.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 02:29 pm
ican, the "childish wishing it to be so" is what you are doing, not anybody else. The powers of taxation have been repeatedly adjudicated. You interpretation of the Constitution is idiosyncratically yours. It's never been how it was actually used, not back to the days of the founding fathers, who certainly should have known best. In fact, the one time a specific list of powers of the government-to-be was brought up for a vote, the framers rejected it. The majority view was pretty much the government should be able to deal with whatever it needed to deal with, and naming only specific powers limited too much future c.ontingencies--read any good history of the Constitutional Convention.

Obama is acting well within the Constitution. Democrats aren't going to rebel. They know it. Government workers aren't going to refuse to carry out those lawful policies (and they are lawful). Your fantasies ain't gonna happen.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 02:43 pm
@ican711nm,
ican wrote:
Quote:
Domestically, Bush was bad. OTA is far, far, ... far worse.


Yes, please do show us some comparisons that shows Obama's is "far, far...far worse?"
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 02:44 pm
@georgeob1,
And you have the audacity to agree with okie? ROFL
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 02:59 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican, when did you make a single post complaining about Bush's repeated and abusive use of signing statements?

Early in 2007! And thereafter.

I was much too slow to respond to Bush's violations of the Constitution. I'm learning that you are much too slow to respond to OTA's violations of the Constitution. You should have much less difficulty wising up to OTA's violations, because they are so much greater and so much more blatant than were Bush's.

Domestically, Bush was bad. OTA is far, far, ... far worse.


Your referring to Obama as an 'Abomination' is racist speech and you really should cut it out.

Can you provide a link to a post from 2007 or whenever, where you complained specifically about Bush's use of signing statements? I wager you cannot.

Cycloptichorn


Who gives a ****? If you don't like his posts, don't read them but quit whining about them for fucks sake.


Who gives a ****? If you don't like my posts, don't read them but quit whining about them for fucks sake.

Maturity parity = achieved

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 03:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Yes, please do show us some comparisons that shows Obama's is "far, far...far worse?"

(1) Compare OTA's projected deficits against the actual deficit of BUSH in 2008..
(2) Compare OTA's unemployment rates at the end of March 2009 against Bush's unemployment rates at the end of January 2009.
(3) Compare OTA's proposed income tax rates against BUSH's tax rates at the end of January 2009.
(4) Compare OTA's actual and planned transfers of wealth in 2009 against Bush's in 2008 from those who lawfully earned it to those who did not lawfully earn it.
...
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 03:11 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Of of our local efforts:
http://www.albuquerqueteaparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/save_the_date.jpg


So is the teabagging still going on in Albuquerque?

Inquiring minds want to know....
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 03:32 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
You presume to know what others think, know and don't know, and that those who oppose you are merely "spoiled white folks ...." . In all of it you don't acknowledge that there is any legitimacy to perspectives that are different from your own.

There are words commonly used to describe that state of mind, but I won't bother to repeat them here.


I was watching CNN earlier. The network showed a small gathering of tea party folk carrying signs. These folks were indeed white folks. One of the signs held by a white protestor depicted a black hand grabbing money away from a white hand. The white man's sign declared, "I am not your ATM."

According to georgeob1, however, we may NOT draw any inferences about what is being portrayed before our very eyes. Georgeob1 himself presumes that all of our inferences drawn from what we see and hear with our own eyes and ears will be unreasonable.

Were these same white folk protesting when the Bush administration doubled our national debt from 5 trillion to over 10 trillion in 8 short years? NOPE. But we see them now and they're painting a very ugly portrait of themselves complete with colorful elements of hypocrisy, bigotry, classism, and racism.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 03:57 pm
What's wrong with this picture:

http://www.foxnews.com/i/new/fn-header.jpg

LINK

Am I missing something? When did FOX NEWS/HANNITY/MURDOCH/et al. become "fair & balanced"?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 04:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Governor Rick Perry, last month: Governor Perry Calls For 1,000 Troops To Be Sent To Border


Securing our borders is a federal matter, not one for the states.
Unless you would have no problem with each of the states choosing its own way to secure the international border along its state.
Would you be OK with that?

Quote:
Governor Rick Perry, five months ago: Governor Perry Requests 18 Month Extension Of Federal Aid For Ike Debris Removal


That could also be considered a federal matter, as stated in the preamble...

Quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America


Provide for the common defense partly means securing the border, "promote the general welfare" could include disaster cleanup to avoid diseases.

Now, before you say the preamble isnt part of the Constitution, many of you on the left have used the "promote the general welfare" phrase to say that means abortion.

So, is the preamble part of the Constitution or not?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 04:11 pm
@mysteryman,
Of course it is. The point is that Perry likes to take money from the Feds when it's politically convenient for him, and then turns around and decries it when it isn't.

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 04:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I dont see it that way.
Perry is expecting the federal govt to carry out their constitutionally mandated responsibilities and to leave the state alone otherwise.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 04:32 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

I dont see it that way.
Perry is expecting the federal govt to carry out their constitutionally mandated responsibilities and to leave the state alone otherwise.



Oh, right, right. Of course you don't see it that way. But the way I described it is exactly how it is.

Under the same 'general welfare' clause that the disaster relief funds are used for, you could argue for the Stimulus funding the same way. But Perry and the Republicans don't want to see more funds going to schools and folks on unemployment, b/c they are politically opposed to those things. It's crass behavior on his part and nothing more.

Believe me, this guy Perry is a complete slimeball and not somebody who you want to defend.

Cycloptichorn
 

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