55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 06:24 pm
@Advocate,
True.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 07:52 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre, tonight I'll limit my response to your response to:
(11) Amend the Constitution to permit a majority of the states to call for a special election of the president and members of Congress, such that the terms of those elected by that special election shall expire when current terms shall expire.

FOXFYRE: How do you envision this working? I'm not certain I fully understand whatyou're saying here.

ICAN: Foxfyre, as you know, anytime two-thirds of the state legislatures want to call a Constitutional Convention, they can direct Congress to do exactly that.
Quote:
Article V
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

I'm proposing that two-thirds or more of the state legislatures shall apply for a Constitutional Convention, and Congress shall call a Constitutional convention for the explicit purpose of proposing an amendment to the Constitution that delegates to a majority of the legislatures:
the power to call for a special election in compliance with current election rules--other than election dates--of the president and members of Congress, such that the terms of those elected by that special election shall expire when the current terms would have expired.

Suppose such an amendment--say amendment 28--already exists. Then if a majority--more than half--of the state legislatures had called on April 1, 2009 for such a special election to take place on April 15, 2009, then such an election wouild be held on April 15, 2009. Those elected would then serve out the remainder of the current terms of Congress and the President, unless another such special election were subsequently called by a majority of the state legislatures, and the election results for the second (or next ...) special election turned out differently than in the first special election.

One purpose of such a special election--probably the primary puurpose--would be to try to replace the President and/or certain members of the Congress who the states believe have violated their oaths to support the Constitution.

Call it the accountability amendment!

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 08:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

http://home.att.net/~rdavis2/empterm.jpg
http://home.att.net/~rdavis2
http://home.att.net/~rdavis2/empterm.html
CHANGE IN POPULATION, LABOR FORCE, AND EMPLOYMENT BY PRESIDENTIAL TERM (in thousands)

Monthly Average Change (in thousands)
-------------------------------------------- Unemploy-
Popu- Labor Househld Nonfarm Private No. of ment
President Mo Year lation Force Survey Employed Employed Months Rate
----------- --- ---- -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- ---------
Roosevelt Jan 1941 154.6 117.4 48
Truman Jan 1945 57.8 65.3 48
" Jan 1949 63.9 55.6 71.4 114.0 95.2 48 4.3
Eisenhower Jan 1953 104.8 62.3 42.3 57.1 39.9 48 2.9
" Jan 1957 136.0 83.7 44.7 16.6 -3.1 48 4.2
Kennedy Jan 1961 156.1 65.0 87.9 122.9 94.3 48 6.6
Johnson Jan 1965 159.9 124.0 141.8 205.3 158.0 48 4.9
Nixon Jan 1969 258.3 165.9 132.4 128.8 97.9 48 3.4
Nixon/Ford Jan 1973 249.3 202.5 141.0 105.7 77.2 48 4.9
Carter Jan 1977 237.8 225.4 208.9 215.4 188.2 48 7.5
Reagan Jan 1981 172.5 139.6 132.2 110.9 111.4 48 7.5
" Jan 1985 172.1 180.5 216.8 224.6 194.6 48 7.3
G.H. Bush Jan 1989 173.3 104.4 49.3 54.0 30.5 48 5.4
Clinton Jan 1993 173.4 147.0 192.1 239.7 225.3 48 7.3
" Jan 1997 241.7 173.8 197.5 234.1 208.3 48 5.3
G.W. Bush Jan 2001 228.1 87.6 51.4 0.6 -18.6 48 4.2
" Jan 2005 206.3 119.0 38.6 43.4 27.1 48 5.2
Jan 2009 7.6

AVERAGE UNEMPLOYMENT RATES
Truman.......Jan 1949 4.3
Eisenhower...Jan 1953 2.9
Eisenhower...Jan 1957 4.2
Kennedy...... Jan 1961 6.6
Johnson....... Jan 1965 4.9
Nixon...........Jan 1969 3.4
Nixon/Ford..Jan 1973 4.9
Carter..........Jan 1977 7.5
Reagan ....... Jan 1981 7.5
Reagan........Jan 1985 7.3
G.H. Bush....Jan 1989 5.4
Clinton........Jan 1993 7.3
Clinton........Jan 1997 5.3
G.W. Bush...Jan 2001 4.2
G.W. Bush...Jan 2005 5.2
G.W. Bush...Jan 2009 7.6



0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 10:10 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate, What you say is true:

Quote:

Washington Lobbying Grew to $3.2 Billion Last Year, Despite Economy
Published by Communications on January 29, 2009 2:09 PM | Permalink

Interest groups spent $17.4 million for every day Congress was in session. Lobbying growth for finance sector and auto industry is smaller in tough times.

WASHINGTON--While companies across the board were losing record amounts of money and laying off employees last year, at least one industry seemed to weather the recession: lobbying. Special interests paid Washington lobbyists $3.2 billion in 2008, more than any other year on record and a 13.7 percent increase from 2007, the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics has found.

Analyzing 4th Quarter disclosure reports filed Jan. 20, the Center calculated that interest groups spent $17.4 million on lobbying for every day Congress was in session in 2008, or $32,523 per legislator per day.

0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Apr, 2009 06:51 pm
Maybe nothing. Maybe a beginning. I wonder which?
Quote:
WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACK RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY
Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET

AUSTIN " Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors of House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states’ rights under the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

“I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size, its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the affairs of our state,” Gov. Perry said. “That is why I am here today to express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm the states’ rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations, and ultimately strengthen our Union.”

Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying to come down here to tell us how to run Texas."

A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the federal government’s constitutionally designated powers and impede the states’ right to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under the 10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal government.

It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be prohibited or repealed.

Developing...
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashtx.htm
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Apr, 2009 07:15 pm
@Foxfyre,
What the good gov of Texas doesn't understand it that this economic crisis is not a statehood one; it's a world crisis, and no state is in any position to remedy it. California is the fifth or sixth richest (if it was a country) in the world economically, but our state is also suffering from loss of jobs, loss of equity in our homes, and health insurance. You think Texas is capable of handling all this on their own? That's total ignorance.
mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Apr, 2009 07:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So that negates the 10th amendment?
I dont think so.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Apr, 2009 09:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
mm, I didn't say anything about it negating any part of the Constitution, did I? If I did, you'll have to show me where I did?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Apr, 2009 10:37 pm
@mysteryman,
Doesn't negate the 10th amendment, nor did I read the phrase 'economic crisis' or any reference to it anywhere in that short piece. Did I miss it?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 09:38 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Maybe nothing. Maybe a beginning. I wonder which?
Quote:
WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACK RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY
Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET

AUSTIN " Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors of House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states’ rights under the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

“I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size, its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the affairs of our state,” Gov. Perry said. “That is why I am here today to express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm the states’ rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations, and ultimately strengthen our Union.”

Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying to come down here to tell us how to run Texas."

A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the federal government’s constitutionally designated powers and impede the states’ right to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under the 10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal government.

It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be prohibited or repealed.

Developing...
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashtx.htm



This proposal in Texas may dovetail into the grass roots organized Tea Parties - 300 to 500 of them scheduled all across the nation for today, April 15, 2009.

The Republians don't seem to be getting the message and are not getting on the band wagon to renounce BIG GOVERNMENT on the right while the Democrats continue to push BIG GOVERNMENT on the left.

I'm beginning to be hopeful that a non-partisan backlash will carry over to 2010 and 2012 with the result that a LOT of bums will be thrown out and we'll start putting people into office who actually care what America once was and could be again if some common sense was re-inserted into the process.

I continue to hear suggestions of a third party initiative here and there and it appears the grass roots initiatives aren't looking to the Republicans as allies either:

Quote:
The protests began with bloggers in Seattle, Wash., who organized a demonstration on Feb. 16. As word of this spread, rallies in Denver and Mesa, Ariz., were quickly organized for the next day. Then came CNBC talker Rick Santelli's Feb. 19 "rant heard round the world" in which he called for a "Chicago tea party" on July Fourth. The tea-party moniker stuck, but angry taxpayers weren't willing to wait until July. Soon, tea-party protests were appearing in one city after another, drawing at first hundreds, and then thousands, to marches in cities from Orlando to Kansas City to Cincinnati.

As word spread, people got interested in picking a common date for nationwide protests, and decided on today, Tax Day, as the date. As I write this, various Web sites tracking tea parties are predicting anywhere between 300 and 500 protests at cities around the world. A Google Map tracking planned events, maintained at the FreedomWorks.org Web site, shows the United States covered by red circles, with new events being added every day.

The movement grew so fast that some bloggers at the Playboy Web site -- apparently unaware that we've entered the 21st century -- suggested that some secret organization must be behind all of this. But, in fact, today's technology means you don't need an organization, secret or otherwise, to get organized. After considerable ridicule, the claim was withdrawn, but that hasn't stopped other media outlets from echoing it.

There's good news and bad news in this phenomenon for establishment politicians. The good news for Republicans is that, while the Republican Party flounders in its response to the Obama presidency and its programs, millions of Americans are getting organized on their own. The bad news is that those Americans, despite their opposition to President Obama's policies, aren't especially friendly to the GOP. When Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele asked to speak at the Chicago tea party, his request was politely refused by the organizers: "With regards to stage time, we respectfully must inform Chairman Steele that RNC officials are welcome to participate in the rally itself, but we prefer to limit stage time to those who are not elected officials, both in Government as well as political parties. This is an opportunity for Americans to speak, and elected officials to listen, not the other way around."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123975867505519363.html


http://teapartynexus.com/sites/default/files/images/TEA%2013.preview.JPG

http://teapartynexus.com/sites/default/files/images/TEA%2016.preview.JPG



http://teapartynexus.com/sites/default/files/images/TEA%2011.preview.JPG
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 10:21 am
A pure political stunt for the TX governor to look tough or anti-liberal. I call bluff, and think nothing more of it.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 10:37 am
Of of our local efforts:
http://www.albuquerqueteaparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/save_the_date.jpg

Quote:
The Rally line will extend on both sides of Montgomery, starting at Independence Grill ( on Montgomery, one block west of Louisiana MAP )

Stop at Independence Grill first to sign in, pick up a sign ( if you don’t have one ) and get your copy of the Peaceful Demonstration Rights and Responsibilities hand out. You can also click the following link to download your copy of Peaceful Demonstration Rights and Responsibilities.

Bring a Friend - Bring a sign - Bring a non-perishable can of “PORK” and beans or an un-opened box of “RED or GREEN Tea”

No Vulgarity on signs " This is a Peaceful, Non-Partisan Rally
All non-perishable food items collected will be donated to a local food bank.
http://www.albuquerqueteaparty.com/


Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 11:16 am
Nothing like watching a bunch of middle- and upper-class white folks gathering to complain about their raw deal in life Laughing

I would take this whole thing much more seriously if people would admit that it was an idea ginned up by Dick Armey's outfit and Newt Gingrich. It's really cute! Republicans are new to the world of protesting, it's like seeing a kid take his first few steps.

I wonder how they will react when today comes and goes, and nothing changes at all? The left got used to that, but I predict some tough times ahead for the Right, who has not gotten used to this yet.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 11:38 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Nothing like watching a bunch of middle- and upper-class white folks gathering to complain about their raw deal in life Laughing

I would take this whole thing much more seriously if people would admit that it was an idea ginned up by Dick Armey's outfit and Newt Gingrich. It's really cute! Republicans are new to the world of protesting, it's like seeing a kid take his first few steps.

I wonder how they will react when today comes and goes, and nothing changes at all? The left got used to that, but I predict some tough times ahead for the Right, who has not gotten used to this yet.

Cycloptichorn


They aren't new to it at all. Such transformations have occurred repeatedly in previous years - after the Truman, Carter, and Johnson Administrations , for example. Similar transitions such as the recent Democrat victory have occurred repeatedly as well - none were permanent. You are merely illustrating your rather rtestricted view of the political struggle.

Do you really believe that none of this is spontaneous, while all of the political activism on the left is truly authentic??
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 11:47 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:


They aren't new to it at all. Such transformations have occurred repeatedly in previous years - after the Truman, Carter, and Johnson Administrations , for example. Similar transitions such as the recent Democrat victory have occurred repeatedly as well - none were permanent. You are merely illustrating your rather rtestricted view of the political struggle.


Bah - Truman, Carter, Johnson? The vast majority of those who are politically active today hardly remember such administrations. Sure, some of you old folk s do; but the vast majority of voting-age Republicans do not. It is quite fair to say that this is a new phenomenon for the right-wing, or at least one which has not been utilized in so long as to be new.

Quote:
Do you really believe that none of this is spontaneous, while all of the political activism on the left is truly authentic??


Oh, I'm sorry; did I claim that all of the political activism on the left is truly authentic? Perhaps you can link to where I did. No? Well, then you don't have much of a point here, do you?

Please respond to what I write, George, instead of attempting to put words into my mouth.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 12:21 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACK RESOLUTION AFFIRMING
SOVEREIGNTY


Forgot to mention this.

Rick Perry is a slimy piece of **** who will do whatever he can to gain partisan political advantage. He asks for help from the Federal government constantly, then decries the help when it's convenient for him.

" Governor Rick Perry, five days ago: Governor Perry Calls FEMA To Assist With Wildfires

" Governor Rick Perry, last month: Governor Perry Calls For 1,000 Troops To Be Sent To Border

" Governor Rick Perry, five months ago: Governor Perry Requests 18 Month Extension Of Federal Aid For Ike Debris Removal

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 12:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Please respond to what I write, George, instead of attempting to put words into my mouth.

Cycloptichorn


Why should I? You presume yourself to be able to speak for the "vast majority" of those who are politically active today" and to even be intimately aware of the degree of their understsanding of history - assuming, as you evidently do, that everyone else is subject to the same limited understanding and awareness of history as yourself.

The current political era that you so childishly assert "we had better get used to" will undoubtedly prove to be no more permanent than all those that have proceeded it. To assert otherwise is to mark yourself as a person of limited understanding and imagination.

While you didn't explicitly assert that political activism on the left was spontaneous and authentic, you were quite clear in your expressed belief that the current activism on the right is inauthentic, externally organized and conducted by robots. My conclusion - and the criticism that followed - were entirely reasonable.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 12:40 pm
Quote:
Leave Texas Alone -- Well, Sort Of. . . .
(Dave McNeely, Commentary, The Kingwood Tribune, April 15, 2009)

One risks whiplash watching Gov. Perry rain on the federal government.

On Thursday, Perry stood outside his capitol office flanked by 30 House members " all of them fellow Republicans except Democrat Ryan Guillen of Rio Grande City " to call for re-emphasizing the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which calls for states’ rights.

“I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size, its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the affairs of our state,” said Perry, who is expecting a re-election challenge from Republican U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison.

That was Thursday. On Friday, Perry’s office put out a press release saying he was reiterating his request that the Federal Emergency Management Agency provide federal money and fire-fighting resources to help the state battle ongoing wildfires.

Perry had requested such a declaration on Feb. 24, it was denied March 17, and appealed on March 20.

Looks like Texas needs some help from those oppressive old feds after all.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 12:42 pm
oh, the irony...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2009 12:42 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Please respond to what I write, George, instead of attempting to put words into my mouth.

Cycloptichorn


Why should I? You presume yourself to be able to speak for the "vast majority" of those who are politically active today" and to even be intimately aware of the degree of their understsanding of history - assuming, as you evidently do, that everyone else is subject to the same limited understanding and awareness of history as yourself.


The majority of those who are politically active today do not have a strong memory of the Truman, Johnson and Carter administrations. Only the older generations do. Anyone born after about 1962 was not of voting age during those administrations whatsoever, and that's a hell of a lot of the Republican population of America.

Quote:

The current political era that you so childishly assert "we had better get used to" will undoubtedly prove to be no more permanent than all those that have proceeded it. To assert otherwise is to mark yourself as a person of limited understanding and imagination.


Oh, can you link to where I asserted that the current Democratic rule would in fact be a permanent one? No? Then you don't really have much of an argument here, do you? Again.

Quote:
While you didn't explicitly assert that political activism on the left was spontaneous and authentic


Goddamn right I didn't, so don't claim I did.

Quote:
you were quite clear in your expressed belief that the current activism on the right is inauthentic, externally organized and conducted by robots. My conclusion - and the criticism that followed - were entirely reasonable.


Your conclusion was neither reasonable nor accurate, and was a poor post overall. You substituted what was actually said for the argument you would rather be making. Please don't do this in the future.

As for the activism, it is inauthentic, it is externally organized, but the people participating are not robots; they are spoiled white folks who are upset b/c someone is proposing taking more of their monies than before, and that's the only ******* thing they care about. None of these people protested any of the abuses or problems during the Bush admin, b/c they don't give a **** about what happens to anyone else besides themselves and their pocketbooks. It's highly revealing and not something that your side should be proud of.

Cycloptichorn
 

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