AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

But here, you and I have no quarrel. If the addict is not willing to help himself/herself, then the most kind thing we can do for him/her is to allow him/her to experience the consequences of his/her choices for s/he will probably not choose help any other way.

So you support suicide.

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

My only quarrel with your argument was the idea that people choose addiction. They don't. Many don't even know they are exposed to possible addiction.

I dont believe I said that people CHOOSE addiction.
I did say that when people CHOOSE to do drugs, or CHOOSE to drink, or CHOOSE to smoke, they knowingly and willingly CHOOSE to take the risk that they might become addicted.

Granted, there are some exceptions, but those exceptions dont disprove the rule.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

So you support suicide.

Sure, why not.
If someone CHOOSES to take their own life, what right do you or I have to stop them?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

I dont believe I said that people CHOOSE addiction.
I did say that when people CHOOSE to do drugs, or CHOOSE to drink, or CHOOSE to smoke, they knowingly and willingly CHOOSE to take the risk that they might become addicted.

Granted, there are some exceptions, but those exceptions dont disprove the rule.

Okay, you said that that choose to become addicted and not that they choose addiction. [As a non-native English speaker it's hard to see the difference here.] Whatever: both is wrong.

mysteryman wrote:

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Thats why I say that an addict CHOOSES to become addicted (in most cases)

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@mysteryman,

Okay. I have a different opinion, not because I'm Christian but as a co-human (and that's why I'm pro assisted suicide).

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@Walter Hinteler,

MM didn't spell it out, but he is correct that those of us who know that tobacco, alcohol, recreational drugs can be addictive and who choose to use them anyway, do choose to take the risk. You know and I know that nobody who takes the risk really believes that he or she will get hooked, however.

Virtually nobody chooses addiction. But we do choose to take the known risks that we take.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter, let me try to make this simple for you.
And before you correct what I am going to say, remember its been 18 years since I was in Germany.

If you CHOOSE to drive on the autobahn, with its high speeds, that means that you have CHOSEN, on your own, to take the risks associated with driving on the autobahn.

That does NOT mean that you want to have an accident, or that you want to hurt anyone else, but you have CHOSEN to accept the risk that it could happen.

Now, if it does happen, are you saying that you didnt knowingly take the risk?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

NOW you spelled it out. Smile

(You have to understand MM, that some here don't read between the lines very well and unless you draw them a picture, they won't agree with you. Hell, even if you DO draw them a picture, they won't agree with you. Smile

)

(And egads, I sounded just like Genoves, didn't I? I think I'll go make myself a cappuccino.)

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TO GET BACK ON TOPIC

Is the Obama Gang continuing to move toward nationalization of American Industry?

I allege that it is!

If it were to continue, would the Obama Gang's continuing move toward nationalization of American Industry conflict or not conflict with MACean principles?

I allege that it would!

If it were to continue, would the Obama Gang's continuing move toward nationalization of American Industry conflict or not conflict with the Constitution of the USA?

I allege that it would!

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
But here, you and I have no quarrel. If the addict is not willing to help himself/herself, then the most kind thing we can do for him/her is to allow him/her to experience the consequences of his/her choices for s/he will probably not choose help any other way.

So you support suicide.

No. And I don't support getting addicted to dangerous substances either which, for many, is a slow form of suicide.

I do support the best known means of helping people help themselves, and helping them to avoid the consequences of their addiction is generally not helpful to persuade people to become recovering addicts. Helping people avoid the consequences of their behavior is called enabling. You might be familiar with that term. It has many many applications within MACean thought.

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@ican711nm,

We have been on topic.
Personal Responsibility is (or should be) a major part of the conservative movement.

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@ican711nm,

I agree that nationalization of American industry is a slippery slope that we should not sanction under any circumstances.

From the Cambridge abridged dictionary:

Quote:

Socialism: the set of beliefs which states that all people are equal and should share equally in the wealth of the country, or the political systems based on these beliefs.

From the American Heritage dictionary:

Quote:

Socialism: 1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy. 2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

These aren't just ideological platitudes. They are real concepts and I think, in varying degrees, they are being pushed, every so unobtrusively but steadily, by the current Administration.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre, I think Hitler referred to his brand of socialism as a "third way," an alternate or hybrid of communism and capitalism.

1 Reply

This video takes a few minutes to watch, but for those of us who know what the pulse of the people is out there and how that knowledge sometimes conflicts with the polls, this is fascinating:

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

[blah, blah], but for those of us who know what the pulse of the people is [blah, blah]

Thumbs down. Again and again we are exposed to this woman's predictable but tiresome expressions of the unearned high-esteem that she holds for herself. If she would edit this kind of **** out of her posts, she might be taken a tad more seriously.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Fascinating for FOX News admirers. LOL

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Gee, Foxie, "socialism" is a "real" concept? When did you finally decide this?

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Fascinating for FOX News admirers. LOL

I watched Foxfyre's video. This is the first time I listened to an entire commentary from Glenn Beck (“Finally, a guy who says what people who aren’t thinking are thinking"). I wish I had said that but it was Jon Stewart.

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@Debra Law,

It's not so much blah blah blah, but he has his percentages confused by mixing apples and oranges. When the economy is as it it now, raising taxes is bad - BUT, raising taxes for the rich is NOT BAD. The reason? Well, it's very simple; they didn't pay for the huge deficit that we are transferring to our children and grandchildren; they want to keep all their money, and not pay for the growth of government under BUSH! Surprise! Obama said 95% of the workers will get a TAX CUT! wow! Yup, 95% are getting tax cuts. AMAZING!

That Beck guy is really confused. LOL

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Foxfyre, I think Hitler referred to his brand of socialism as a "third way," an alternate or hybrid of communism and capitalism.

Posted again, since its true, regardless whether every leftie here gives it a thumbs down.

Hey guys, instead of thumbs downing it, have the courage to confront the truth of it.

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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