AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@Foxfyre,

I guess you don't understand the difference between September and November.

Nor do you seem to understand the difference between London, UK and Washington DC, USA.

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@Foxfyre,

Again, Foxfyre:

a month is a unit of time, used with calendars, which is approximately as long as some natural period related to the motion of the Moon; month and Moon are cognates. The traditional concept arose with the cycle of moon phases; such months (lunations) are synodic months and last approximately 29.53 days. ... ... ...

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Do you understand the concept of MONTHS Fox?

June is NOT April
November is NOT September.

When you can catch up with the thread, Parados, get back to us. Your comments are so out of synch with anything being said, I won't try to inform you now. November was a G8 meeting and ALL visiting dignitaries were treated to a state dinner at that time. We've already discussed the June meeting between President Bush and Mr. Brown and there was NO negative publicity of any kind on either side of the pond regarding Mr. Brown's treatment during that visit.

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@parados,

I guess dates are difficult concepts for Foxie. LOL

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@parados,

parados wrote:

I guess you don't understand the difference between September and November.

Nor do you seem to understand the difference between London, UK and Washington DC, USA.

But the names of the persons are the same.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

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@Walter Hinteler,

Maybe it's name recognition that's giving Foxie so much difficulty.

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I will not.....engage in exercises of futility.....engage in exercises of futility....engage in exercises of futility......

Okay guys. Ya'll just carry on in the minutae of your nitpicking, and I'll hope the rest of us get back to discussing concepts, ideas, and principles of Modern American Conservatism and how our leaders can best emulate those.

I acknowledge that the June meeting was in the UK. I also acknowledge that at no time has Gordon Brown been snubbed or treated with any disrespect by George W. Bush or Hank Paulsen when he has visted the USA.

Whatever the dates, you'll have to come up with something other than prejudice and conjecture to show otherwise.

1 Reply

Speaking of MACean principles and concepts, it is my opinion that one MACean principle is that the ineffective, inefficient, inept, and incompetent should be allowed to fail. Do we WANT to keep ineffective, inefficient, inept, and/or incompetent executives on the government payroll? Especially when it costs us more money than most of us put together will see in an entire lifetime to do so?

Quote:

Fannie plans bonuses of up to $611K for 4 execs
Fannie Mae plans bonuses of up to $611,000 for 4 executives; Freddie Mac has similar plans
Alan Zibel, AP Real Estate Writer
Wednesday March 18, 2009, 3:23 pm EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Fannie Mae plans to pay retention bonuses of as much as $611,000 each to key executives this year as part of a plan to keep hundreds of employees from leaving the government-controlled company.

Rival mortgage finance company Freddie Mac is planning similar awards, but has not yet reported on which executives will benefit.

The two companies, which together own or back more than half of the home mortgages in the country, have been hobbled by skyrocketing loan defaults. Fannie recently requested $15 billion in federal aid, while Freddie has sought a total of almost $45 billion.

Fannie Mae disclosed its "broad-based" retention program in a recent regulatory filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The company was only required to disclose the amounts for the top-paid executives, who will pocket at least $470,000 on top of their base salaries. The bonuses are more than double last year's, which ranged from $200,000 to $260,000.

A company spokesman declined further comment.
More here:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Fannie-plans-bonuses-of-up-to-apf-14679491.html

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@Foxfyre,

Foxie wrote:

Quote:

Re: Walter Hinteler (Post 3602869)
No, you specifically said that George Bush was far worse to you (Germany) than the poorly executed welcome to Gordon Brown. So what did President Bush do to your elected leaders that was so bad?

Sexual harrassment?

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre, with all the outrage over AIG bonuses, which Geithner apparently knew about or helped draft or approve by the way, where is the outrage over the bonuses already given to notable Democrats involved with Fannie and Freddie, while they were running the organizations into the ground? Like 90 million for Franklin Raines, exorbitant pay for Jamie Gorlick, etc. Where is the outrage by Obama?

I think poor Geithner, I say poor, but I do not feel sorry for this tax cheat, he may be on the way out, I hope so. At least one Republican is calling for his ouster.

The Democrats voted for those bonuses for AIG. Do they even read the bills?

1 Reply

@okie,

I dunno. They can't leave Treasury totally rudderless and so far neither Obama nor Geithner have been able to recruit anybody willing to work with Geithner so for now, he's it. If our President was more serious about repairing the economy than he is re pushing his own agenda, he would send Geithner packing and bring in somebody like Steve Forbes or at least somebody who understands the relationships between housing, the markets, and monetary policy. I am guessing with a Forbes or even a Paul Volcker at the helm of Treasury, competent staff would be lining up to get on board.

And no, they don't read the bills. Chris Dodd is trying to backpedal on the language that authorized those AIG bonuses saying that the provision authorizing them was added to his amendment in conference and wasn't in his version. Nobody is buying that, and nobody is defending him about that, but if he had read the legislation before voting on it, he would have seen any changes.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

What specifically are Obama's "personal agenda?"

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It is sad, but bitterly amusing, to witness the current debacle with respect to AIG and the still unsolved liquitity crisis. It is pretty clear that, despite all its self-imoportant arrogance and indignation, the current Administration is already in far over its head with respect to the management of our banking crisis. The very effective milking of the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac tit by Democrat toadies from Franklin Raines to Jamie Gorelick, as well as the various shenanigans of Barney Frank & Chris Dodd appear to have taught them nothing.

Arrogance, hypocrisy and ignorance can be a fatal combination.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

parados wrote:

Do you understand the concept of MONTHS Fox?

June is NOT April
November is NOT September.

When you can catch up with the thread, Parados, get back to us. Your comments are so out of synch with anything being said, I won't try to inform you now. November was a G8 meeting and ALL visiting dignitaries were treated to a state dinner at that time. We've already discussed the June meeting between President Bush and Mr. Brown and there was NO negative publicity of any kind on either side of the pond regarding Mr. Brown's treatment during that visit.

Which JUNE visit of Brown to the US are you talking about?

Bush in LONDON for talks

Are you unfamiliar with where LONDON is located?

HINT - The London where Bush and Brown met in June of 2008 is NOT located in the US

Brown was in the US in APRIL of 2008 and there was no state dinner for that visit.

HINT - April is NOT June

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@Diest TKO,

Quote:

Just as the choose to take drugs, and somebody appeared to enable them to do it, I believe that when they choose to stop that someone should be there to help enable them to stop. It matters not that people choose to do it, only that they choose to stop. For those that choose to continue, or for that matter they are out of control to choose, this line of discussion cannot apply.

And you have intentionally misunderstood everything I have said.

I have stated quite clearly that I am willing to help anyone that wants help.
But they have to be willing to take the first step to get help.
If they refuse help, or dont want help, then they get no welfare, free healthcare, or anything else.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Just more fodder for my conviction that we need to strip the Federal government of most power and funding other than for existing contractual obligations and Constitutionally mandated responsibilities. There is simply too much temptation to use the taxpayers money to reward those who can enhance your personal power, status, political and economic fortunes.

Here's the list of top AIG recipients for the 2008 campaign:
1. Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., $103,100
2. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., $101,332
3. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., $59,499
4. Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., $35,965
5. Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., $24,750
6. Former Gov. Mitt Romney, (R) Pres $20,850
7. Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., $19,975
8. Rep. John Larson, D-Conn, $19,750
9. Sen. John Sununu, R-N.H., $18,500
10. Former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani (R) Pres $13,200
11. Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa., $12,000
12. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., $11,000
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7110145&page=1

Top Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008

Name Office State Party Grand Total Total from PACs Total from Individuals

Dodd, Christopher J S CT D $165,400 $48,500 $116,900
Obama, Barack S IL D $126,349 $6,000 $120,349
Kerry, John S MA D $111,000 $2,000 $109,000
Bennett, Robert F S UT R $107,999 $71,499 $36,500
Bachus, Spencer H AL R $103,300 $70,500 $32,800
Blunt, Roy H MO R $96,950 $78,500 $18,450
Kanjorski, Paul E H PA D $96,000 $57,500 $38,500
Bond, Christopher S 'Kit' S MO R $95,400 $64,000 $31,400
Shelby, Richard C S AL R $80,000 $23,000 $57,000
Reed, Jack S RI D $78,250 $43,500 $34,750
Reid, Harry S NV D $77,000 $60,500 $16,500
Clinton, Hillary S NY D $76,050 $8,000 $68,050
Davis, Tom H VA R $75,499 $13,999 $61,500
Boehner, John H OH R $67,750 $60,500 $7,250
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

Okay guys. Ya'll just carry on in the minutae of your nitpicking, and I'll hope the rest of us get back to discussing concepts, ideas, and principles of Modern American Conservatism and how our leaders can best emulate those.

It's nitpicking to point out that you have your dates and places wrong.
Brown was in the US in April of 2008. There was NO state dinner for Brown by Bush in that visit. Brown hosted Bush in London in June of 2008. Bush did attend a state dinner for that visit hosted by the Queen.

So.. let's get back to your ridiculous claim that not hosting a state dinner somehow is an insult.

HINT - Bush did NOT give a state dinner for Brown in April of 2008 when Brown was in the US.

REMINDER - a dinner in London in JUNE can NOT under any circumstances be a state dinner in the US in April.

So, let me get this straight. It is "nitpicking" to point out that Bush didn't give a state dinner for Brown but when Obama doesn't give one it is an insult. There is nothing to say about your "insult" claim other than it is complete BS. Pretending we are nitpicking when we point out your "insult" claim is unsupported because you confuse June with April and London with the US is ridiculous.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Just as the choose to take drugs, and somebody appeared to enable them to do it, I believe that when they choose to stop that someone should be there to help enable them to stop. It matters not that people choose to do it, only that they choose to stop. For those that choose to continue, or for that matter they are out of control to choose, this line of discussion cannot apply.

And you have intentionally misunderstood everything I have said.

I have stated quite clearly that I am willing to help anyone that wants help.
But they have to be willing to take the first step to get help.
If they refuse help, or dont want help, then they get no welfare, free healthcare, or anything else.

My only quarrel with your argument was the idea that people choose addiction. They don't. Many don't even know they are exposed to possible addiction.

But here, you and I have no quarrel. If the addict is not willing to help himself/herself, then the most kind thing we can do for him/her is to allow him/her to experience the consequences of his/her choices for s/he will probably not choose help any other way.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

It is sad, but bitterly amusing, to witness the current debacle with respect to AIG and the still unsolved liquitity crisis. It is pretty clear that, despite all its self-imoportant arrogance and indignation, the current Administration is already in far over its head with respect to the management of our banking crisis. The very effective milking of the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac tit by Democrat toadies from Franklin Raines to Jamie Gorelick, as well as the various shenanigans of Barney Frank & Chris Dodd appear to have taught them nothing.

Arrogance, hypocrisy and ignorance can be a fatal combination.

What would you recommend they do instead, George?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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