55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 04:54 pm
@hamburger,
hamburger wrote:

foxfire wrote :

Quote:
The fact remains that under a capitalistic free society, it is those very rich who take the risks


you might remember that far more "ordinary" people take far greater risks .
they take dangerous jobs in mines , on oil rigs , working as lumberjacks , pumping gas ... you name it . they often leave their families behind to do those jobs in remote areas . what happens to them when the lumbermill closes down (just as ONE example) : they lose their job and may have little chance of finding another one for quite some time .


I don't diminish the very valuable benefit to society when people are willing to do dangerous jobs.

But by risk in this context, I mean it is only the rich who risk their property in R&D, new ventures, expansion of existing businesses, taking on new product lines, etc. The poor have far less ability to do that, but it is the fact that the rich do that provides jobs for the poor. The old saw may be tired, but it's still true: no poor man ever offered me a job.

Quote:
what happens to the "very rich" in similar circumstances ? very few - if any - have invested all their money in a single enterprise that goes completely belly-up and makes them lose their house . even if they lose 90% of their wealth , they still have much more than the "ordinary" people ever dared dream of . they can still go on living a comfortable life .
i don't know of any "very rich" that have lost all and living in poverty .


But why should the fact that the rich can lose much and still have something left make a difference? Why is that so offensive to some people? Or when did it become undesirable to achieve great success? This sense of entitlement to what other people have lawfully and ethically acquired and/or class envy just blows my mind. I was not raised to think that I was entitled to anything that I did not work for and earn. Gifts and blessings and unexpected good luck were always appreciated, but I never assumed that these were a right.

Quote:
btw the NY Times just had an article in saturday's edition reporting that many universities have seen their gifts etc. from the "very rich" shrink greatly .
it seems that those "very rich" are not quite as generous any more .


That is true because they are taking it on the chin in this bad economy just like everybody else. And you start raising their taxes and I think a whole lot more of philanthropic efforts will be further reduced or dry up entirely.

Quote:
i have nothing against "capitalism" but think that "excesses" have sometimes the consequence of writing their own death-sentence (or at least judgement)

imo "capitalism" means "responsible capitalism".
there are plenty of responsible capitalists , but it seems to me that over the last several years (perhaps even decades) the "irresponsible capitalists"have started to give capitalism a bad name - too bad imo .
.[/quote]

I think in a true free market system, it is much more difficult to be irresponsible based on that analogy of how an economy works together in that Williams' piece posted a few days ago. Everybody has to make their own real contribution in order to have their own needs met. I suspect most of the excesses you mention can probaby be traced to government involvement or intervention. I don't know that for sure--it's a gut feeling--but I bet some research would show that to be most true. In just about everything there are exceptions to the rule of course.

Quote:
there is nothing wrong with making money but "excess" (i'd call it greed) can never be good imo .
hbg

Quote:
Medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas said of Greed: "it is a sin directly against one's neighbor, since
one man cannot over-abound in external riches, without another man lacking them...
it is a sin against God, just as all mortal sins, inasmuch as man contemns things eternal for the sake of temporal things."


Greed is listed as one of the seven deadly sins. So is envy/covetousness. Where do you draw the line between the two in establishing government policy?
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 05:27 pm
@Foxfyre,
I think ordinances are applicable to a privately owned space which is open to the public, as a restaurant. When I was referring to children as an example, no, unfortunately if they are in your own private home, the government can't pass an ordinance banning one from smoking. That would require putting cigarettes in the same classification as pot. Obviously, if someone comes into your private residence and pops out a cigarette, you can tell them, please, no. You can't have them arrested if they do, but you can ask them to go outside or just leave. I don't know what kind of friends you have, but I don't worry about it mainly because none of my family or friends smoke.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 05:52 pm
@Lightwizard,
Same here. The very few friends or family we have that still smoke either refrain from doing so at our house or go outside.

I have a problem with the government telling a private business whether or not they can allow smoking on premises if the proprietor and patrons want to smoke tobacco. It is a legal substance and it isn't being forced on anybody, And that includes private restaurants though I think it would be okay for the business to be required to alert people that smoking was allowed inside so they could choose to enter or not.

But given that most people don't smoke any more, I supposed a lot of restaurant owners like the no-smoking ordinances because then they can blame it on the government rather than taking responsibility for their preference of a no-smoking environment.

I hate to see kids exposed to continuous tobacco smoke and probably come down on the side of child endangerment there. What makes it difficult is determining what is measurable harm in some of those cases though. If there is sufficient ventilation, that would be different than allowing heavy smoke accumulation.

I had a favorite uncle who smoked a pipe and used the best smelling tobacco in the whole world. I don't think that harmed me in the least and I think my life experience would have been reduced just a wee bit if I hadn't been allowed to enjoy smelling that pipe. There certainly is room to debate what ordinances should apply to kids though and your view might be the better one. I would have to think on that some.

All this is to say this one isn't a biggie for me, but is just one of many examples of little freedoms that we have extracted from us, bit by bit, until one day we wake up and find we have little freedom left.
okie
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 05:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, and in my opinion ... Never mind.
Heil conservatism!

If I read the last few pages correctly, you have just rendered your opinions worthless, Walter. No credibility whatsoever. I will not take you seriously anymore.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 05:56 pm
@Foxfyre,
How about this compromise with taxes, raise the marginal rates for individuals somewhat, but eliminate all corporate or business income taxes?
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 06:05 pm
@okie,
We sure would see a huge stampede to incorporate all the sole proprietorships, wouldn't we. Smile

But that would certainly be better than this idiotic nonsense about increasing taxes on businesses that earn over $250,000 or whatever it is--you know, the very businesses that we depend on to provide jobs for people?

I do think they should not raise the rates on capital gains though and we would all benefit if those were lowered more.
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 06:14 pm
The entire Williams article is intellectually dishonest--nothing more than right wing propaganda:

Quote:
Leftists admire communist ideals, overlook barbarism

Grove City College publishes an excellent newsletter titled "Visions and Values." Its July 2006 edition features an interview with Dr. Richard Pipes, acclaimed Russian historian and Harvard University professor of Sovietology. The interview was conducted by Grove City College professor of political science Dr. Paul Kengor.

Pipes, who served on the National Security Council during the Reagan administration, explained that there are actually only a few communists among academics. At first glance, that's a puzzling observation, given the leftist bias at most college campuses. Pipes and Kengor explain the puzzle in a way that makes perfect sense.

While academic leftists, and I'd include their media allies, are not communists, they are anti-anti-communists. In other words, they have contempt for right-wingers, conservatives or libertarians who are anti-communists. Why? Academic leftists, and their media allies, are in agreement with many of the stated goals of communism, such as equal distribution of wealth, income equality and other goals spelled out in Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels' "Manifesto of the Communist Party." Leftist elites love the ideas of communism so much that they are either blind to, or tolerant of, its many shortcomings.

In practice, communism is nothing less than sheer barbarism that makes even the horrors of Nazism pale in comparison. Professor Ru- dolph J. Rummel of the University of Hawaii outlines that barbarism in his book "Death by Government," a comprehensive detailing of the roughly 170 million people murdered by their own governments during the 20th century. From 1917 to its collapse in 1991, the Soviet Union murdered about 62 million of its own people. During Mao Zedong's reign, 35,236,000, possibly more, Chinese citizens were murdered. By comparison, Adolf Hitler's Nazis managed to murder 21 million of its citizens and citizens in nations they conquered. Adding these numbers to the 60 million lives lost in war makes the 20th century mankind's most brutal era.

At home and abroad, leftists have done a thorough and commendable job documenting and condemning the horrors and crimes of Hitler and his fascist Nazi regime, but when have you heard them direct similar condemnation of Josef Stalin, his successors and Mao Zedong? By and large, they've chosen to overlook the horrors of communism.

The reason for their reluctance to condemn the barbarism of communism is simple. Pipes says, "Intellectuals, by the very nature of their professions, grant enormous attention to words and ideas. And they are attracted by socialist ideas. They find that the ideas of communism are praiseworthy and attractive; that, to them, is more important than the practice of communism. Now Nazi ideals, on the other hand, were pure barbarism; nothing could be said in favor of them."

Often, when people evaluate capitalism, they evaluate a system that exists on Earth. When they evaluate communism, they are talking about a nonexistent Utopia. What exists on Earth, with all of its problems and shortcomings, is always going to fail miserably when compared to a Utopia. The very attempt to achieve the utopian goals of communism requires the ruthless suppression of the individual and an attack on any institution that might compromise the loyalty of the individual to the state. That's why one of the first orders of business for communism, and those who support its ideas, is the attack on religion and the family.

Rank nations according to whether they are closer to the capitalism end or the communism end of the economic spectrum. Then rank nations according to human rights protections. Finally, rank nations according to per capita income. Without question, citizens of those nations closer to capitalism enjoy a higher standard of living and a far greater measure of liberty than those in nations closer to communism.

Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20060816/ai_n16639210

It's an entire article filled with unsupported conclusions designed to vilify those who do not worship conservative ideology. Williams is not brilliant; he's a sleazy pot-stirrer.

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 06:19 pm
@Foxfyre,
That is probably true about sole proprietorships. I thought about that, but perhaps it would not be a big innovator for people earning less than Obama's 250,000, and if their net income is more than that, perhaps it should be incorporated anyway. Then, could you have a situation where everyone and their uncle in the family owned stock in the company to spread the income out to avoid taxes, but would that be bad, I don't think so.

The key here is to unleash businesses, and eliminating income tax on businesses would do that. I understand that even in China, this is where they have gone. Perhaps even communists understand free markets better than we do? And hello the Laffer Curve, the Chinese get it, but cyclops and ci don't.

"One is the simple argument of Chinese lawmakers: taxing investment less leads to more investment, which makes workers more productive and raises wages.

However, a more subtle argument for extending the 2003 dividend tax cuts is that they get the U.S. one step closer to a consumption-based tax system in which capital would be exempted from tax altogether"a system nearly all economists agree would dramatically improve U.S. economic performance, allowing U.S. lawmakers to fight over the division of a much larger economic pie."


http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1254.html
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 06:27 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Debra Law wrote:
OMG. Tell me it ain't so, Ican! CI is a commie? and he hates the Constitution?

It ain't so! He only values equality of results far more than he values equality of rights in the pursuit of happiness.

But ... maybe ... he's a coveter!?


or maybe an "anti-anti-communist," as that brilliant economics professor Walter Williams would say? Hmmmm. ROFL
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 06:27 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

How about this compromise with taxes, raise the marginal rates for individuals somewhat, but eliminate all corporate or business income taxes?


Interesting idea. Since businesses have more opportunity to control reported income than individuals, it could well lead to greater total tax revenues. Also, business decisions would be based on business merit, instead of tax consequences. Of course, it could also lead to fewer charitable contributions, if there were no tax to deduct from.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 06:35 pm
@roger,
In this business climate, even corporate charitable contributions have been reduced; it's understandable.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 06:37 pm
@roger,
And it would provide the tools to possibly control the outlandish payment packages these days, if the tax bite becomes very severe, but only on personal income. After all, a baseball player that earns millions, do they provide jobs, I don't think so, at least not efficiently as a business does if making millions. Also, it may provide more incentive for businesses to plow profits back into the company rather than raping and pillaging them, as some of the corporate execs are known to do.

I don't know, I am about to throw up my hands in frustration at all of this, but somewhere there has to be a compromise. We know we need jobs, so eliminating corporate tax, while just collecting the tax elsewhere, from personal income tax, maybe we need to look at it. Maybe there would be something there for both Republicans and Democrats to like.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 06:42 pm
And here's another wrinkle guys. I hunted it up when Steve Forbes was interviewed on Fox News this morning and they asked him about his WSJ piece. I've been beating the drum that the President needs to be focused on fixing the banks and free up credit. There should be absolutely no tax increases.

But Forbes points to a big part of the problem of two bad market initiatives being implemented in 2007: Mark-to-market accounting for banks and insurance companies and short selling.

Short selling I understand but I admit that the mark-to-market thing is not perfectly clear to me and maybe somebody can explain it in simple layman's terms? But I have huge confidence in Mr. Forbes to know his stuff.

Was this pushed by a Democratically controlled Congress and the President didn't catch it? Or was it the President's initiative and Congress wasn't watching? Forbes is adament that we will not begin to see any improvement until these two things are fixed.

Quote:
MARCH 6, 2009
Obama Repeats Bush's Worst Market Mistakes
Bad accounting rules are the cause of the banking crisis
.
By STEVE FORBES

What is most astounding about President Barack Obama's radical economic recovery program isn't its breadth, but its continuation of the most destructive policies of the Bush administration. These Bush policies were in themselves repudiations of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Mr. Obama's hero.

The most disastrous Bush policy that Mr. Obama is perpetuating is mark-to-market or "fair value" accounting for banks, insurance companies and other financial institutions. The idea seems harmless: Financial institutions should adjust their balance sheets and their capital accounts when the market value of the financial assets they hold goes up or down.

That works when you have very liquid securities, such as Treasurys, or the common stock of IBM or GE. But when the credit crisis hit in 2007, there was no market for subprime securities and other suspect assets. Yet regulators and auditors kept pressing banks and other financial firms to knock down the book value of this paper, even in cases where these obligations were being fully serviced in the payment of principal and interest. Thus, under mark-to-market, even non-suspect assets are being artificially knocked down in value for regulatory capital (the amount of capital required by regulators for industries like banks and life insurance).

Banks and life insurance companies that have positive cash flows now find themselves in a death spiral. Of the more than $700 billion that financial institutions have written off, almost all of it has been book write-downs, not actual cash losses. When banks or insurers write down the value of their assets they have to get new capital. And the need for new capital is a signal to ratings agencies that these outfits might deserve a credit-rating reduction.

So although banks have twice the amount of cash on hand that they did a year ago, they lend only under duress, or apply onerous conditions that would warm Tony Soprano's heart. This is because they know that every time they make a loan or an investment there is a risk of a book write-down, even if the loan is unimpaired.

If this rigid mark-to-market accounting had been in effect during the banking trouble in the early 1990s, almost every major commercial bank in the U.S. would have collapsed because of shaky Latin American and commercial real estate loans. We would have had a second Great Depression.

But put aside for a moment the absurdity of trying to price assets in a disrupted or non-existent market, of not distinguishing between distress prices and "normal" prices. Regulatory capital by its definition should take the long view when it comes to valuation; day-to-day fluctuations shouldn't matter. Assets should be kept on the books at the price they were obtained, as long as the assets haven't actually been impaired.

Mark-to-market accounting does just the opposite. When times are good, it artificially boosts banks' capital, thereby encouraging more investing and lending. In a downturn it sets off a devastating deflation.

Mark-to-market accounting is the principal reason why our financial system is in a meltdown. The destructiveness of mark-to-market -- which was in force before the Great Depression -- is why FDR suspended it in 1938. It was unnecessarily destroying banks.

But bad ideas never die. Mark-to-market was resurrected by the Financial Accounting Standards Board and became effective in the fall of 2007 (FASB rule 157) to the approval of the Bush administration, its Treasury Department, and the Securities and Exchange Commission. Even as FASB 157 began to take its toll on financial institutions last year, Mr. Bush refused to kill or suspend it. When Congress voiced displeasure last fall, the administration and regulatory authorities made some cosmetic changes, but the poisonous essence remained.

Another horrific Bush policy that Mr. Obama has left untouched concerns short selling. In 1938, the SEC, created by FDR, enacted the so-called uptick rule, which held that investors could not short a stock unless it went up in price. In July 2007, the SEC, whose commissioners were handpicked by the White House, got rid of the rule. Market volatility exploded.

Compounding this lunacy was the SEC's inexplicable failure to enforce the rule against "naked" short selling. Before an investor can short a stock, he is supposed to borrow the shares and pay a broker or stockholder a fee. What sellers soon realized was that the SEC was turning a blind eye to naked short-selling, thus adding even more pressure to beleaguered bank equities. Short sellers quickly saw how mark-to-market made seemingly invincible companies vulnerable to destruction. They picked their targets and relentlessly sold financial stocks short.

If the president really takes Roosevelt's legacy seriously, he should suspend mark-to-market accounting rules, restore the uptick rule, and enforce the prohibition against naked short selling. If he doesn't, historians will look back in utter amazement at Mr. Obama's preservation of Mr. Bush's worst economic policies.

Mr. Forbes is chairman and CEO of Forbes Inc. and editor in chief of Forbes magazine.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123630304198047321.html
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 06:55 pm
I just noticed too that today is the one-year anniversary of this thread. Who would have thought?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 08:45 pm
@Foxfyre,
Mark to market, I believe, means to revalue the assets on their books to current market value. However, that's an impossibility in today's market, because most values are headed downwards, and different areas suffer greater decrease in value. There's no practical way to do that with so much flux in the market.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 08:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Oh me oh my; the conservatives are gonna love this one sent to me by a friend from the land of Oz.

Quote:

Just about says it all really ...


Hillary Transue was 14 when she carried out her prank. She built a hoax MySpace page in which she posed as the vice-principal of her school, poking fun at her strictness. At the bottom of the page she added a disclaimer just to make sure everyone knew it was a joke. "When you find this I hope you have a sense of humour," she wrote.

Humour is not in abundance, it seems, in Luzerne County, northern Pennsylvania. In January 2007 Transue was charged with harassment. She was called before the juvenile court in Wilkes-Barre, an old coal town about 20 miles from her home.

Less than a minute into the hearing the gavel came down. "Adjudicated delinquent!" the judge proclaimed, and sentenced her to three months in a juvenile detention centre. Hillary, who hadn't even presented her side of the story, was handcuffed and led away. But her mother, Laurene, protested to the local law centre, setting in train a process that would uncover one of the most egregious violations of children's rights in US legal history.

Last month the judge involved, Mark Ciavarella, and the presiding judge of the juvenile court, Michael Conahan, pleaded guilty to having accepted US$2.6m from the co-owner and builder of a private detention centre where children aged from 10 to 17 were locked up.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/07/juvenille-judges-cash-detention-centre


So much for "tough on crime" -- a brainless response promoted by tabloids and conservative politicians where, all too often, the wrong people end up in jail.

Sure the judge was corrupt, but why on earth did the people think this was ok? Why was it left up to the mother to raise hell? Because stupid people take the word of ratbag media and ratbag politicians as truth. For the lazy and the braindead, it's easier that way.

Murf


BTW, we mustn't tax that judge, cause we'll be transferring his hard earned money to the poor folk.
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 12:43 am
@cicerone imposter,
CI. Yes! It's an outrage:

Pa. judges accused of jailing kids for cash
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/ap_on_re_us/courthouse_kickbacks/print
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 09:08 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Mark to market, I believe, means to revalue the assets on their books to current market value. However, that's an impossibility in today's market, because most values are headed downwards, and different areas suffer greater decrease in value. There's no practical way to do that with so much flux in the market.

As long as the loans are being serviced, that seems to be more important in my opinion. If applied to car loans, half the loans or more would never be made, which might be advisable actually. How many people in the country are upside down on car loans? I bet a ton.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 09:10 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Mark to market, I believe, means to revalue the assets on their books to current market value. However, that's an impossibility in today's market, because most values are headed downwards, and different areas suffer greater decrease in value. There's no practical way to do that with so much flux in the market.

As long as the loans are being serviced, that seems to be more important in my opinion. If applied to car loans, half the loans or more would never be made, which might be advisable actually. How many people in the country are upside down on car loans? I bet a ton.


Mark to market is a good rule when things are going well, but when combined with Naked shorting of stocks and no Uptick rule - what the HELL was the SEC thinking?!?!!?!! - it can destroy a company quick in a bad situation.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 09:33 am
@okie,
According to Forbes, that is the problem. Banks are awash in cash but are afraid to lend it because of the mark to market requirements. And that is the large reason that credit is frozen while banks and insurance companies like AIG continue to post huge losses that don't really exist but affect their credit ratings.

(I said that like I fully understand how it works, and I don't, but I'm beginning to learn a bit.)

Now here's a NPR piece that appears to somewhat rebut Steve Forbes' position on it:

Quote:
Firms Blame Financial Woes On Accounting Rule
by David Kestenbaum
http://media.npr.org/blogs/globalpoolofmoney/images/2008/10/kestenbaum_standard.jpg
Mark-to-market accounting sets the value of an asset according to how much it would sell for today.

Morning Edition, October 29, 2008 ยท

American banks are filing their quarterly financial statements this month, a process that normally draws little attention from the general public. But these days, a lot of banks are in trouble. Wachovia's newest financial statement includes a loss of $24 billion.

Some banks insist the situation isn't as dire as their balance sheets suggest. They blame a bookkeeping rule known as mark-to-market accounting " a rule that regulators may soon change.

The issue came up again when Martin Sullivan, former president and CEO of the insurance giant AIG, testified before Congress about his company's collapse. AIG had just received an emergency loan for $85 billion, with more to come, from the Federal Reserve. Sullivan could have blamed the housing market or poor choices by management, but he trained his sights elsewhere.

"To assist the committee, I would like to focus on one particular factor, the role played by one accounting rule applied to corporations," Sullivan told lawmakers. The rule requires companies to value any given asset according to what they believe someone else would pay for it. They then record, or "market," this "market value" on their financial statements.

The problem, Sullivan explained was that some of AIG's assets simply were no longer trading. AIG sold credit default swaps, for instance, basically insurance policies on bonds. In September, when the credit crisis struck, no one wanted to own a credit default swap. It would have been like insuring beachfront houses as a hurricane bore down.

If AIG had been forced to sell its credit default swaps then, Sullivan said, the price would have been artificially low. With the market value plummeting, he argued, mark-to-market accounting turned AIG's balance sheet into a nightmare. Suddenly, a company with $1 trillion of assets was reporting tens of billions in unrealized losses.

As part of the $700 billion bailout, Congress ordered the Securities and Exchange Commission to review the requirement for mark-to-market accounting. The language in the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, gives the SEC the authority to suspend the rule.

Not everyone thinks that would be a good idea. "It would be a terrible mistake that would make the current crisis worse, rather than better," says Barbara Roper, director of investor protection at the Consumer Federation of America.

Roper says mark-to-market accounting makes it possible for investors to trust what companies report about themselves. "If people don't trust financial statements " and today, people do not trust financial statements " they're not willing to invest and not willing to lend," Roper says. "Part of the reason banks haven't been lending to each other is they don't know who the next to fail is, and they don't trust the information they're getting on bank balance sheets."

She has a name for the alternative to mark-to-market. She calls it "mark-to-myth."

In an odd twist, the current regulation doesn't require mark-to-market accounting in every situation. Banks are allowed some leeway to use computer models in gauging the real value of assets that, for whatever reason, aren't trading. The question is when they can exercise that leeway, and when they can't.

Some bankers insist that occasionally varying from the normal practice makes sense.

"I think the people that think mark-to-market accounting is the end-all and be-all have never tried to run a financial services company," says Sarah Moore, chief financial officer of Alabama-based Colonial Bank. "Banks have to use their own judgment about when to use mark-to-market."

Moore says that strict mark-to-market accounting tends to make balance sheets look overly rosy in good times, when the market overvalues things. In bad times, she says, the rule sends balance sheets into an overly steep decline.

Like a lot of banks, Colonial Bank holds some mortgage-backed securities " the kind of assets that investors are fleeing. Moore says Colonial doesn't plan to sell those securities right away. She plans to keep holding them in the hopes that the market will recover and their value will rise. Why be tied to what the market thinks at the moment, she asks?

"Say you're a dentist, and you have a building that you're running your dentist office [out of], using that building," Moore hypothesizes. "You have no intent to sell that building. That building is housing your practice " you don't intend to move. But if you had to mark that building based on what you could receive for it, the financials of your dentist practice would look a lot worse."

The government may be as divided on the issue as bankers and watchdogs. Within the past few weeks, two government agencies issued competing "clarifications" of the mark-to-market rule. The American Bankers Association liked one but thought the second made things more confusing.

As the debate over mark-to-market accounting continues, investors wanting to know how bad a bank's losses really are will have to consider the very fine print in the latest financial filings.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96229610
 

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