AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@old europe,

If I can find it I won't withhold it. You just can't STAND the idea that somebody besides us rabid conservatives might be getting a little nervous about President Obama though, can you. It seems to just disturb the liberal mind terribly to believe that their announced devils might exhibit a virtue or two and that their gods might have a wart or a flaw.

And wow did we EVER win the debate with Cyclop. He's getting almost frantic to come up with new biting insults to spread out there. I love that about liberals too. They aren't the least bit creative, but they predictably do a great liberal dance. And in their mind it's great entertainment too. Smile

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

I turn to ad hominems when idiots like you think you're offering some evidence when in fact you dance all around it with something not even remotely related.

You are an idiot, and that's an ad hominem. But it's backed by evidence from your stupid posts.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

If I can find it I won't withhold it.

Do.

Foxfyre wrote:

You just can't STAND the idea that somebody besides us rabid conservatives might be getting a little nervous about President Obama though, can you.

Not at all. I'm fairly confident that, during the next couple of years, quite a few people will disagree with the policies of the Obama administration. However, the topic you were purportedly discussing was the economic policies of the Obama administration. To me, the nervousness of Poland or the Czech Republic over future foreign policy decisions by the Obama administration seem completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

Foxfyre wrote:

It just so disturbs the liberal mind to believe that their announced devils might exhibit a virtue or two and that their gods might have warts and flaws.

By "virtues" of "their announced devils", I assume you're still referring to the idea of building missile-defense shield bases in Eastern European countries, right?

1 Reply

@old europe,

I appreciate that you connected economics and people wanting George Bush. I didn't necessarily mean to connect the two as I didn't read the article carefully but just read the first couple of paragraphs and moved on. The headline was what I based my comment on. The comments re concern with President Obama's economic policy was interposed in an article I read earlier discussing European bank problems and frozen credit when I was looking for a connection of that to ours. And because I've read so many articles on the current economic crisis in the last two or three weeks, I honestly don't know where I saw the concerns some Europeans are having with the Obama administration. Personally I thihk if ALL of you aren't having at least some problems with his economic policy so far, you're idiots, but that is a subject for another discussion.

Actually I had President Bush in mind for the 'devil' in the European mind.

(And I'm just noting for the record that I am not calling you an idiot or anybody else an idiot, but making note that C.I. doesn't know the difference between prsonal insult and ad hominem.)

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

The headline was what I based my comment on.

I see.

Yeah, sometimes I only the headlines, too.

Foxfyre wrote:

The comments re concern with President Obama's economic policy was interposed in an article I read earlier discussing European bank problems and frozen credit when I was looking for a connection of that to ours. And because I've read so many the last two or three days, I honestly don't know where I saw the concerns some Europeans are having with the Obama administration.

I'm sure you know Rule #12 of posting on an internet forum: If You Can't Provide A Link, You've Made It Up.

Foxfyre wrote:

Personally I thihk if ALL of you aren't having problems with his economic policy so far, you're idiots, but that is a subject for another discussion.

Depends whether the problems somebody has with the economic policy is hinged upon made-up facts or not....

Foxfyre wrote:

Actually I had President Bush in mind for the 'devil' in the European mind.

Bush, neocons, rabid conservatives, whatever....

That's all blue potatoes to me.

1 Reply

@old europe,

I only make it up if I make it up, but I try very hard not to do that. I did provide a link; it was YOU who made the wrong inference re what I intended with the remark. I tried to give you benefit of the doubt for the wrong inference when I saw your inference as a logical inference, but you chose to be insulting anyway. Oh well. I'm so used to that coming from liberals, that I'm pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen. Oh wait. You made up Rule #12. A joke? Good one. Smile

I think only those who are making up facts would not have a problem with Obama's economic policy.

But you did relate those blue potatoes to a missile defense system. That just goes to show how these things get so twisted sometimes. Everybody is trying to oneup the other guy instead of just having a discussion between friends.

I really REALLY prefer just having a discussion between friends.

2 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

I only make it up if I make it up, but I try very hard not to do that. I did provide a link; it was YOU who made the wrong inference re what I intended with the remark. I tried to give you benefit of the doubt for the wrong inference that I saw your inference as a logical inference, but you chose to be insulting anyway. Oh well. I'm so used to that coming from liberals, that I'm pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen. Oh wait. You made up Rule #12. A joke? Good one.

I think only those who are making up facts would not have a problem with Obama's economic policy.

But you did relate those blue potatoes to a missile defense system. That just goes to show how these things get so twisted sometimes. Everybody is trying to oneup the other guy instead of just having a discussion between friends.

I really REALLY prefer just having a discussion between friends

Un-******* believable.

See, OE, it's your fault that Fox didn't read the whole article, yet linked to it as evidence. It's your mistake that she changed topics in the middle of a paragraph with no warning. It's probably also my fault that she's too stupid to understand causality and responsibility as it relates to our financial system.

Fox, we're not your friends. At all. B/c friends don't act in the fashion that you do.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

See OE? Even when I'm making nice, Cyclop has his shorts in such a twist to be hateful and prove what a big BIG man he is, he's gonna make something out of a post that even YOU didn't make.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Quote:

And here is the really important point to remember. Competition keeps greed to an acceptable level. If business becomes too greedy, you can simply not buy from that business, go buy it somewhere else, or do without it altogether, or find an alternative product, there are lots of possibilities. At least there is a check and balance on greed. Not so with bigger government, as there is no alternative, you are forced to be subject to their greed for more power and money

Good point. As you well know the GSE 's Fan and Fred had, initially, implicit government backing which created an imbalance in competition in the market place. I read some where, maybe on these threads, that between these two entities they had over 60% of the sub prime market at the end times. Add in the accounting scandals and government lobbying that were overlooked by Barney and Chris (so much for 'government regulation') and their competitors were at a distinct advantage. This situation also gives other cautions that are still being ignored by the present administration.

As far as greed goes, sans government "best of intentions" actions, it takes care of itself. Look at PC's (as opposed to the Apple Mac), Atari's and TRS-80's not withstanding IBM opened up this market and found a gold mine with an Intel 8088 (essentially an i8806 ready to connect to hardware already on the market ) based computer system complete with disc storage. It sold for about $4000 of 1980 dollars. Just 6 months ago I bought a laptop for 800 (cheaper) 2009 dollars with vastly more power and storage capacity than an 80's IBM 360/370 Main frame room sized computer, and I can hold the damn thing with one hand!. IBM's mark up on its popular 0riginal PC was extremely profitable, today you have to buy China's Lenovo to even get close to IBM ancestry. The beauty of the market is that it works this way automatically "greedy" entrepranaurs are checked by their own kind. The result: balanced competition forcing increased innovation with better and less expensive produtcs for all--isn't that what we all want? Isn't that "fair"?

Quote:

How many peoples lives, how much work, how many life's savings, how many people will have to be abused and ruined before we see the error of bigger and bigger government?

With liberals in charge it doesn't matter, after all, the ends justify the means. Again, the Republican challange is to point this out, show positive examples, but in a way that is perceived as "kind and gentle" by the general thinking public. Ann Coulter and Rush are tough love and what they speak is true but, their pronouncements become lighten rods and excellent sources for classic sound bites taken out of context that liberals love. Perhaps more Mike Steele may be wiser.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

See OE? Even when I'm making nice, Cyclop has his shorts in such a twist to be hateful and prove what a big BIG man he is, he's gonna make something out of a post that even YOU didn't make.

You call that 'making nice?' You blamed everything on him instead of taking personal responsibility for screwing your post up.

You're a twisted person, Fox

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Keep them coming Cyclop. I didn't realize just how badly you had been beaten in our little debate. I'm copying and saving every single post though for evidence. Smile

2 Replies

@JamesMorrison,

JM, Most of the Mae and Mac problems originated during BUSH's term. Aint' that somet'n? FACT: All eight years.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Keep them coming Cyclop. I didn't realize just how badly you had been beaten in our little debate. I'm copying and saving every single post though for evidence.

Evidence for what?

And you cannot seriously think that you did anything but embarrass yourself in our earlier back-and-forth. Honestly. Do you think you presented a coherent picture of how our financial institutions got into trouble? No, you do not think this. You merely managed to obfuscate to the point where I lost my patience with your mendacity. And to you, that = winning. B/c the point isn't to display knowledge of the situation, but to frustrate those who do have knowledge into shutting up. That's what stubborn idiots such as yourself do, Fox.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

I only make it up if I make it up, but I try very hard not to do that. I did provide a link; it was YOU who made the wrong inference re what I intended with the remark.

Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. That is incredibly magnanimous of you. I mean, sure, when somebody writes something like this...

Foxfyre wrote:

As inept and incompetent and big government as President Bush could be, he was far too much a man of principle to intentionally take us down this road headlong into full Marxist-tinged socialism. I read this morning that some of the more financially stable European nations are wanting President Bush back.

... where the first sentence is referring to economic policies, it's completely self-evident and logical that the second sentence would refer to foreign policy. Anybody would have noted that. My mistake. I made the wrong inference, as you say.

Foxfyre wrote:

I tried to give you benefit of the doubt for the wrong inference when I saw your inference as a logical inference, but you chose to be insulting anyway. Oh well.

Yeah, sure. Thank you very much. It's not the fact that you change from economic policies to foreign policy from one sentence to the next, it's my decision to be insulted. That makes a lot of sense! Thanks for explaining this to me!

Foxfyre wrote:

I'm so used to that coming from liberals, that I'm pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen.

Well, you changed the topic, or rather, posted a link to an article that didn't support what you had said and that you hadn't even read to start with. All of this, however, is the fault of the poster you're having a discussion with.

I see how this works.

1 Reply

@old europe,

It can drive a sane person batty. LOL

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Quote:

And here is the really important point to remember. Competition keeps greed to an acceptable level. If business becomes too greedy, you can simply not buy from that business, go buy it somewhere else, or do without it altogether, or find an alternative product, there are lots of possibilities. At least there is a check and balance on greed. Not so with bigger government, as there is no alternative, you are forced to be subject to their greed for more power and money

Good point. As you well know the GSE 's Fan and Fred had, initially, implicit government backing which created an imbalance in competition in the market place. I read some where, maybe on these threads, that between these two entities they had over 60% of the sub prime market at the end times. Add in the accounting scandals and government lobbying that were overlooked by Barney and Chris (so much for 'government regulation') and their competitors were at a distinct advantage. This situation also gives other cautions that are still being ignored by the present administration.

As far as greed goes, sans government "best of intentions" actions, it takes care of itself. Look at PC's (as opposed to the Apple Mac), Atari's and TRS-80's not withstanding, IBM opened up this market and found a gold mine with an Intel 8088 (essentially an i8806 ready to connect to hardware already on the market ) based computer system complete with disc storage. It sold for about $4000 of 1980 dollars. Just 6 months ago I bought a laptop for 800 (cheaper) 2009 dollars with vastly more power and storage capacity than an 80's IBM 360/370 Main frame room sized computer, and I can hold the damn thing with one hand!. IBM's mark up on its popular 0riginal PC was extremely profitable, today you have to buy China's Lenovo to even get close to IBM ancestry. The beauty of the market is that it works this way automatically. "Greedy" entrepreneurs are checked by their own kind. The result: balanced competition forcing increased innovation with better and less expensive products for all--isn't that what we all want? Isn't that "fair"?

Quote:

How many peoples lives, how much work, how many life's savings, how many people will have to be abused and ruined before we see the error of bigger and bigger government?

With liberals in charge it doesn't matter, after all, the ends justify the means. Again, the Republican challenge is to point this out, show positive examples, but in a way that is perceived as "kind and gentle" by the general thinking public. Ann Coulter and Rush are tough love and what they speak is true but, their pronouncements become lightening rods and excellent sources for classic sound bites taken out of context that liberals love. Perhaps more Mike Steele may be wiser.

JM

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Keep them coming Cyclop. I didn't realize just how badly you had been beaten in our little debate.

Waitaminute.

Cylco asked you how AIG ended up being involved in the current crisis. This could be done in one or two sentences. You refused to do so, and then posted quite a number ofposts complaining about Cyclo repeating his question, about how you had answered the question earlier, and about how nobody was able to read what you had posted.

All of this in lieu of posting one or two sentences to answer the question.

And that constitutes "beating someone in a debate"?

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I declare you to be ignorant on the subject and unworthy of my further time. Anyone else who would like to address the subject of how the current crisis came about, I am more than happy to discuss this issue with; it is plainly clear that greed and avarice on the part of the Investment industry has led to our economic downfall, far more than any other factor.

I declare you, Cycloptichorn, to be a declarer of falsities out of ignorance and/or fraud.

Sigh! The following is old news.

The crisis came about as a consequence of the government passing laws (e.g., FM&FM) that reduced the risk of lenders lending money to those unlikely or even unable to pay back their loans. These laws guaranteed that lenders who experienced defaults on such loans would be reimbursed for losses on such loans.

That engendered greed among both lenders and borrowers. They thought they could knowingly lend/borrow money on the expectation that they would get bailed out in the event their otherwise risky speculative investments for large profits failed.

Now you will probably demand that I provide evidence to support my allegation here. Foxfyre has already done that several times, and earlier so have I.

You and other MALs (i.e., Modern American Liberals) have frequently retorted that the governemt did not force borrowers and/or lenders to make or get risky loans. Yes, the government did not force those loans to be made. It merely advocated and in some case threatened people or organizations into making those loans. The threat consisted of government (e.g., Barney Frank, Chris Dodd) threatening to legislate penalties on those who did not continue to cooperate by making those loans when requested to do so.

The primary motivation of too many of our elected members of government for this advocating and/or threatening of theirs, was their greed for the power they believe they can obtain from voters highly dependent on them to increase delivery of unearned economic security.

2 Replies

@ican711nm,

Well Ican, that's actually one of your better posts. At least you had the courage to admit that greed was a large factor in the crisis; but, can you continue to be honest?

Perhaps you can answer the question that Fox refuses to/cannot: How did AIG and investment companies get mixed up in the mortgage market?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Keep them coming Cyclop. I didn't realize just how badly you had been beaten in our little debate.

Waitaminute.

Cylco asked you how AIG ended up being involved in the current crisis. This could be done in one or two sentences. You refused to do so, and then posted quite a number ofposts complaining about Cyclo repeating his question, about how you had answered the question earlier, and about how nobody was able to read what you had posted.

All of this in lieu of posting one or two sentences to answer the question.

And that constitutes "beating someone in a debate"?

Thanks, Christ, in the immortal words of the Great Mugatu,

http://bp2.blogger.com/_R7UcruVXzbQ/R_QakFr4q6I/AAAAAAAAAUI/asCHfDdqjZc/s400/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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