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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:09 pm
NOTICE TO ANY WILLING TO BE HONEST: One must put Rush's words into context--the context that he hopes Obama will fail should Obama initiate a hardline socialist agenda--in order to make an honest post about that. There are at least a couple of active threads out there that fully explain that if anybody is willing to read and understand the full context which is not what some hateful idiot writes about it. Meanwhile, let's don't hijack this thread with this nonsense. Take it to those other threads please.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:17 pm
@Foxfyre,
I post anything on this thread that has relevance to this topic.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:26 pm
@Foxfyre,
Hannity's insight had absolutely nothing to do with Rush's recent comments.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:38 pm
@blatham,
MALs support what?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:40 pm
@blatham,
You're the one who brought Hannity into it. Not me.

But you're right that Hannity was not involved in the original statement but did follow up with Rush about it. Rush did say in his radio monologue, did post on his website, and did follow up in an interview with Hannity that if Obama attempts to push a far left agenda and expand socialism in America, he hopes Obama fails in that. He also said he will support Obama in any good policy that he proposes.

That is 100% a MAC sentiment and one that would be shared by everybody who agrees with all or most of the MAC definition as it has been posted in this thread.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:56 pm
@Foxfyre,
Irrelevant.

The claim/argument/viewpoint forwarded by Hannity which I quoted is that Limbaugh represents American conservatism.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:57 pm
@blatham,
Yes, and I responded to that. Did you miss it?
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 05:29 pm
@Foxfyre,
Yes, I did. Thank you. And I think you and Hannity have it right.

Colin Powell, on the other hand, would not so appropriately represent modern American conservatism. Would that be accurate?

Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 06:21 pm
@blatham,
I honestly don't know what General Powell's views are on much of anything as I have never had to evaluate him for any elected office. He's a likeable fellow and the few times I've heard him speak he seemed to be on the MAC side of the spectrum, but issue by issue I don't honestly know where he stands.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 07:09 pm
@Foxfyre,
General Powell's political views from Wiki:

Quote:
A moderate Republican, Powell is well known for his willingness to support liberal or centrist causes.[45] He is pro-choice regarding abortion, and in favor of "reasonable" gun control.[45] He stated in his autobiography that he supports affirmative action that levels the playing field, without giving a leg up to undeserving persons because of racial issues. Powell was also instrumental in the implementation of the military's Don't ask, don't tell policy.[45]

The Vietnam War had a profound effect on Powell's views of the proper use of military force. These views are described in detail in the autobiography My American Journey. The Powell Doctrine, as the views became known, was a central component of US policy in the Gulf War (the first U.S. war in Iraq) and U.S. invasion of Afghanistan (the overthrow of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan following the events of 9/11). The hallmark of both operations was strong international cooperation, and the use of overwhelming military force.

Powell was the subject of controversy in 2004 when, in a conversation with British Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, he reportedly referred to neoconservatives within the Bush administration as "******* crazies."[46] In addition to being reported in the press (though generally, the expletive was censored in the U.S. press), the quote was used by James Naughtie in his book, The Accidental American: Tony Blair and the Presidency, and by Chris Patten in his book, Cousins and Strangers: America, Britain, and Europe in a New Century.

In a letter to Sen. John McCain, General Powell expressed opposition to President Bush's push for military tribunals of those formerly and currently classified as enemy combatants. Specifically, he expressed concern of Bush's plan to "amend the interpretation of Article III of the Geneva Conventions." He also pointed out that perception of the War on Terror may be losing moral support saying, "The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism."[47]
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 08:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
He also pointed out that perception of the War on Terror may be losing moral support saying, "The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism."


"moral basis", such unmitigated claptrap from a war criminal. What he means is that the US must do a better job of hiding their terrorist actions.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 08:26 pm
@JTT,
He's only trying to protect his behind; he's already lost his good name working with Bushie.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 07:10 am
Speaking about American Conservatism today: there are some ideas than posted here kindly by Foxfyre and ican because some think that the Republican Party is at the threshold of an historic renaissance that will build a better future for all.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 08:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Speaking about American Conservatism today: there are some ideas than posted here kindly by Foxfyre and ican because some think that the Republican Party is at the threshold of an historic renaissance that will build a better future for all.


By losing power and support, the American conservative agenda is doing just that. They help build a better world by keeping the hell out of the way.

The Republican Party and American conservative ideology have had almost unquestioned power in America for the last three decades...and what they've done with all that power is to bring America to the brink of ruin.

I applaud Foxfyre for recognizing that adjustments have to be made to conservative ideology...but neither she not the many others on that same track seem able to deal with the realities of the nature of the adjustments that actually are necessary.

I'm not saying they are a lost cause, like they often have supposed the Democratic Party or liberalism were kaput. They may rise again. The problems the last administration left on the table are daunting...and Obama, like anyone, may prove to be a failure at dealing with them...and that would open the door to a major Republican revival in the near future.

But Walter, make no mistake about it, the only place American conservatism will lead the world is further down into the pit. They have as much chance of being at the forefront of "an historic renaissance that will build a better future for all"...as they have of seeing and acknowledging their complicity in the erosion of America.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 10:44 am
@Frank Apisa,
The proof is in the pudding; conservatives believe Sarah Palin is their new leader.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 11:47 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:


I applaud Foxfyre for recognizing that adjustments have to be made to conservative ideology...but neither she not the many others on that same track seem able to deal with the realities of the nature of the adjustments that actually are necessary.


You've really hit the nail on the head with this comment. I don't see the sort of humility that one would expect after a crushing defeat coming from anyone in the Republican party.

And they need that humility right now. If Obama is successful in his programs and retains public support, the 2010 elections are going to be a nightmare for them and it will take 12-16 years for the Republicans to get back on track in the Senate and House. That's a lot of time for Dems to move this country in a Progressive direction.

Unless the Republicans can learn that the country isn't as Conservative as they seem to think it is, and they can't just offer tax cut after tax cut as legislation, they will continue to suffer setbacks. The Republican 'alternative' to the stimulus is a joke; just more tax cuts for business and rich folks, trickle down to everyone else.

If people wanted that, they would have voted McCain and the Republicans into office in the Senate. Instead, the Dems won both convincingly.

When will there be recognition of the true problem? Fox and Ican seem to think that the Republicans problem is that they aren't conservative enough. It's unbelievable.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 11:48 am
The Republican congressional majority 2001 to 2007, and the Democrat congressional majority 2007 to 2009 were the principal causers of the fall of the USA's economy into a recession. Those Republicans are RINOs (i.e., Republicans In Name Only) and CINOs (i.e., Conservative in Name Only). Those Democrats are MALs (i.e., Modern American Liberals).

The MALs are currently in charge of rescuing the USA from past RINO, CINO, and MAL mistakes. But the MALs are expanding the mistakes previously made in their alleged attempt to rescue the USA's economy from its recession.

The MALs are advocating expansion of the illegal give-aways of tax dollars to private individuals and organizations by the previous Congress and President. The MALs are also advocating that the current illegal non-uniform and discriminatory rates of income taxation be expanded. Repeating the errors of the past to allegedly correct the current results of the same errors is insanity, or stupidity, or fraud. The MALs are also advocating further limititation of our ability to become independent of foreign oil, instead of advocating expansion of our own domestic drilling for domestic oil.

MAC (i.e., Modern American Conservatism) is one way to stop repeating those past errors. MAC will greatly reduce the illegal give-aways of tax dollars to private individuals and organizations. MAC will greatly reduce the current illegal non-uniform and discriminatory rates of income taxation. MACs will greatly expand our ability to become independent of foreign oil by removing current limitations on our own domestic drilling for domestic oil.

The job of MACs now is to convince American voters that MALs will take us to worse than what we are now experiencing and the eventual replacement of our constitutional republic with a socialist dictatorship. The additional job of MACs is to help elect MAC members to congress and to the presidency. If MACs do that job, MAL will be dramatically curtailed in the USA.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 11:52 am
@ican711nm,
Sarah Palin is one very good example of an elected developing MAC.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 11:54 am
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Sarah Palin is one very good example of a developing MAC.


She's a good example of a developing child Laughing

Cyclopticnorn
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 12:08 pm
Amazing!

When their policies are shown to be disasters...they immediately fall on that...”those people were really not conservatives.”

We have a guy out here who writes for New Jersey's largest newspaper...who pulls that **** all the time. Either the liberals, or the Democrats were at fault...or the Republicans/conservatives who obviously were at fault...are not really conservatives.

Amazing how deluded they can be.

Reagan was a REAL conservative.

He TRIPLED the national debt while president!

If Obama were to triple the national debt during his eight years...what would the REAL CONSERVATIVES have to say about him???
 

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