AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2008/pdf/hist.pdf
TABLE 1.1 SUMMARY OF BUDGET RECEIPTS OUTLAYS SURPLUSES OR DEFICITS 1789-2012

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Employment & Unemployment Tables 1970 to 2008

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/lf/aat1.txt
Unemployed 1942 to 2008

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Somebody let me know if any of the conservatives posting in this thread answer the question I posed in my last post!

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@ican711nm,

http://kclibrary.nhmccd.edu/decade30.html
Unemployment 1930 to 1939

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

If Obama were to triple the national debt during his eight years...what would the REAL CONSERVATIVES have to say about him???

What's a real conservative?

What MACs would say is exactly what they are saying now about MALs & RINOs & CINOS.

MACs VERSUS MALs & RINOs & CINOs

The Republican congressional majority 2001 to 2007, and the Democrat congressional majority 2007 to 2009 were the principal causers of the fall of the USA's economy into a recession. Those Republicans are RINOs (i.e., Republicans In Name Only) and CINOs (i.e., Conservative in Name Only). Those Democrats are MALs (i.e., Modern American Liberals).

The MALs are currently in charge of rescuing the USA from past RINO, CINO, and MAL mistakes. But the MALs are expanding the mistakes previously made in their alleged attempt to rescue the USA's economy from its recession.

The MALs are advocating expansion of the illegal give-aways of tax dollars to private individuals and organizations by the previous Congress and President. The MALs are also advocating that the current illegal non-uniform and discriminatory rates of income taxation be expanded. Repeating the errors of the past to allegedly correct the current results of the same errors is insanity, or stupidity, or fraud. The MALs are also advocating further limititation of our ability to become independent of foreign oil, instead of advocating expansion of our own domestic drilling for domestic oil.

MAC (i.e., Modern American Conservatism) is one way to stop repeating those past errors. MAC will greatly reduce the illegal give-aways of tax dollars to private individuals and organizations. MAC will greatly reduce the current illegal non-uniform and discriminatory rates of income taxation. MACs will greatly expand our ability to become independent of foreign oil by removing current limitations on our own domestic drilling for domestic oil.

The job of MACs now is to convince American voters that MALs will take us to worse than what we are now experiencing and the eventual replacement of our constitutional republic with a socialist dictatorship. The additional job of MACs is to help elect MAC members to congress and to the presidency. If MACs do that job, MAL will be dramatically curtailed in the USA.

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@ican711nm,

Nice way to absolve yourself from the faults of the GOP. LOL So, what does the GOP actually provide the conservatives in their own party?

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So according to Ican...the "real conservatives" would avoid the question and continue down the path of accusing Democrats, liberals, and conservatives who are not "real" conservatives...for the problems of the world...and hold themselves blameless.

Yeah...that's pretty much what I figured.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Quote:

The job of MACs now is to convince American voters that MALs will take us to worse than what we are now experiencing and the eventual replacement of our constitutional republic with a socialist dictatorship. The additional job of MACs is to help elect MAC members to congress and to the presidency. If MACs do that job, MAL will be dramatically curtailed in the USA.

Good luck with that.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

How can they do that when they themselves can't explain who they represent?
ROFL

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

So according to Ican...the "real conservatives" would avoid the question and continue down the path of accusing Democrats, liberals, and conservatives who are not "real" conservatives...for the problems of the world...and hold themselves blameless.

Yeah...that's pretty much what I figured.

Conservative financial management, personally, virtually always works, Frank, so it would work if applied to government. Basically, conservatism says, do not spend more then your income. Pretty simple concept, and it works if applied every time.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

So according to Ican...the "real conservatives" would avoid the question and continue down the path of accusing Democrats, liberals, and conservatives who are not "real" conservatives...for the problems of the world...and hold themselves blameless.

Yeah...that's pretty much what I figured.

Conservative financial management, personally, virtually always works,

Except for when it doesn't, such as our current problems.

Quote:

Frank, so it would work if applied to government.

But, Reagan tripled the debt. And he is held up as the God of modern Conservatism. How do you square this? That's what Frank was asking.

Quote:

Basically, conservatism says, do not spend more then your income. Pretty simple concept, and it works if applied every time.

Then why do Republicans fight against the PAYGO rule? Why are they such fans of deficit spending?

Your rhetoric does not match the actuality of Republican or Conservative governance. While your ideas sound nice, every one of your elected leaders apparently forgets all about those principles the minute they take office, because the track record of the last 3o years of Republican leadership is spending, spending, spending, cutting taxes, and generally increasing the debt by a tremendous amount.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Good luck with that.

As I said earlier...the people gullible enough to buy into American conservative propaganda...are already conservatives.

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@okie,

Okie wrote:

Quote:

Conservative financial management, personally, virtually always works, Frank, so it would work if applied to government. Basically, conservatism says, do not spend more then your income. Pretty simple concept, and it works if applied every time.

How do you know that, Okie?

Ronald Reagan is considered the quintessential American conservative...and the only way he got things done was to triple our national debt.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Republican does not equal conservative, cyclops. You have been told that dozens of times. When Reagan was in office, tax revenues ballooned, but one problem, government spending grew even faster. We had a Democratic congress, remember?

The only reason I vote Republican most of the time is that they are closer to sensible government, because Democrats are completely off the reservation. I have told some people about the only time Congress ever did anything worthwhile in my memory was the Republican congress of the 90's, including welfare reform. At least they stipulated that somebody on welfare had to come in for an interview, and as predicted, a significant number never showed up because they were duplicates, phonies, illegals, etc. That is one little example, but yes, that is about the only time in my memory that a government program was ever reigned in or rolled back.

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@okie,

If republicanism doesn't represent conservatives, who do they represent? Some imagined party that only exists in your brain?

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Republican does not equal conservative, cyclops. You have been told that dozens of times. When Reagan was in office, tax revenues ballooned, but one problem, government spending grew even faster. We had a Democratic congress, remember?

Yeah, but surely REAGAN = Conservative. And who cares if we had a Dem Congress? Reagan signed the bills. He is responsible for authorizing the spending. Therefore, he is responsible for the debts incurred. This fact is inconvenient for your case, but true.

I would also note that Reagan presided over 7 or 8 tax increases, which were responsible for the majority of the increase in tax revenues during his time in office. I know you Conservatives have edited that inconvenient fact out of your minds, but it is true.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Okie wrote:
Quote:
Conservative financial management, personally, virtually always works, Frank, so it would work if applied to government. Basically, conservatism says, do not spend more then your income. Pretty simple concept, and it works if applied every time.

How do you know that, Okie?

Ronald Reagan is considered the quintessential American conservative...and the only way he got things done was to triple our national debt.

If you spend less than you make, it works, Frank. If you have any more questions, go to math class.

Problem with Reagan presidency, he was unable to roll back government, they laughed at him for example when he suggested eliminating certain departments, and the Democratic congress went on spending. Plus Reagan wanted to spend plenty as well, so both of their wants became the way things were done. But the fact remains, true conservatism when applied to budgeting, it works. We have not had true conservatism tried in a long time, with both congress and the presidency, and we won't because too many people will never vote for anyone that won't give them money.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

Republican does not equal conservative, cyclops. You have been told that dozens of times. When Reagan was in office, tax revenues ballooned, but one problem, government spending grew even faster. We had a Democratic congress, remember?

As a matter of fact, Reagan had a Republican majority in the Senate for 6 of his 8 years!

He could have vetoed any spending bill he wanted...and been upheld

HE TRIPLED THE NATIONAL DEBT...and unless you are saying that he was not legitimately a conservatives...that speaks more to the efficacy of conservative practices than what you are saying.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Yeah, but surely REAGAN = Conservative. And who cares if we had a Dem Congress? Reagan signed the bills. He is responsible for authorizing the spending. Therefore, he is responsible for the debts incurred. This fact is inconvenient for your case, but true.

As I mentioned, Reagan had a Republicans in control of the Senate for 6 of his 8 years.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
Yeah, but surely REAGAN = Conservative. And who cares if we had a Dem Congress? Reagan signed the bills. He is responsible for authorizing the spending. Therefore, he is responsible for the debts incurred. This fact is inconvenient for your case, but true.

As I mentioned, Reagan had a Republicans in control of the Senate for 6 of his 8 years.

Really? Didn't know that.

Man, that's even worse for the Conservative's case.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

If you spend less than you make, it works, Frank. If you have any more questions, go to math class.

Problem with Reagan presidency, he was unable to roll back government, they laughed at him for example when he suggested eliminating certain departments, and the Democratic congress went on spending. Plus Reagan wanted to spend plenty as well, so both of their wants became the way things were done. But the fact remains, true conservatism when applied to budgeting, it works. We have not had true conservatism tried in a long time, with both congress and the presidency, and we won't because too many people will never vote for anyone that won't give them money.

The problem, Okie, is that conservatives are full of soup on this issue. Reagan did not spend less because he couldn't. And the Democratic congress bullshit is just that...bullshit.

He could have vetoed anything he wanted to veto...and he had a Republican majority for 6 of his 8 years in office....and during the other 2 years, the Dems did NOT have a veto proof majoritiy.

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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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