AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

What conservatism does for all of us:

POM, American conservatism allows you to spread all the
lies you want and remain safe in your little bubble world.

@H2O MAN,

plainoldme wrote:

What conservatism does for all of us:
...........

Correction. American conservatism built the most wondrous nation on the face of the earth, a nation that was a shining beacon on a hill, a nation that almost all the world yearned to emulate, go to, and look to as an example of freedom and virtue. Liberalism now attempts to tear it asunder and do to it what liberalism has done all over the world in history, which is to create shared misery, poverty, ruthless dictatorships, and untold amounts of human suffering and destruction.

1 Reply

@okie,

A nation that was fueled by the sweat of slaves. A nation today that interferes in the internal affairs of sovereign states. A nation whose infrastructure is crumbling. A nation whose cities are blighted and decaying.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

And our educational system falls further behind more countries.

3 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

And our educational system falls further behind more countries.

Up through the World War II era, our system of education run more by local authorities produced the most educated and most industrialized and advanced country on the face of the earth. Then schools started to consolidate and the Federal Department of Education was formed by the 1970's, leading to more and more central planning of education, this along wthe the teachers union, the NEA, attempting to call the shots. We turned to schools handing out condoms and political correct teaching, together wth an emphasis on sports, to produce a substandard educational experience.

Of course, I believe the cultural attitudes have greatly hindered how our educational system is doing. Ask a kid now what he or she wants to be, and they say movie star or sports star, perhaps because of the constant blitz of the media from the time they are big enough to watch a boob tube.

We will not recover from our malaise until we recover our cultural framework of sound families and universally held moral principles once again. More broken families, drug use, and social dependence upon government will continue to spiral us into failure.

I am not a total pessimist, as there are millions of good people and great kids still around and to come. I believe the main thing is for the federal government to step aside and say to the people, it is up to you, you can do it, and we will respond to the challenge of responsibility and freedom, as we have always done.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I have been in a state of despair over the reading levels of my students, ENG 101 students as well as the remedial students. However, yesterday, I went to a presentation on Shakespeare and language followed by an acting workshop at Shakespeare and Company in Lenox, MA, where I met a 6 year old who probably reads better than some of my students.

We are still in trouble but that little guy let me know that the problem isn't as severe as I thought it was. Also, two or three weeks ago, my youngest told me how glad he was that my ex and I read to him for so many years. He told me listening to all those books until he was 12 made high school easier for him.

1 Reply

@okie,

You and reality are strangers to each other.

Quote:

Up through the World War II era, our system of education run more by local authorities produced the most educated and most industrialized and advanced country on the face of the earth

I've corrected you on that piece of fiction at least three times. It is stupid parents who run for posts on local boards of education that have done damage to education.

Quote:

Then schools started to consolidate

There were always regional schools, however, after WWII, as the country became increasingly urbanized, it became necessary to consolidate schools further.

Quote:

the Federal Department of Education was formed by the 1970's,

This Department has existed in various forms under different names since 1867.

Quote:

leading to more and more central planning of education,

Support this statement, please.

Quote:

this along wthe the teachers union, the NEA, attempting to call the shots

I have been and am now a member of the NEA and I have yet to see or hear any such thing. What the union has done is protect teachers from people like you who would pay teachers $1.25/hour.

Quote:

together wth an emphasis on sports,

I bet you would be the first to eliminate drama, music and art. Besides, what emphasis on sports? Many people feel there isn't enough attention paid to sports. Weight training for high school football players fell to the bottom line in many schools.

Quote:

We will not recover from our malaise until we recover our cultural framework of sound families and universally held moral principles once again

Do you have the Limbaugh family in mind? It was the left wing women who wanted to stay home, who are more likely to nurse their babies and read to their kids, than the right wing women. I never heard a left wing woman say staying home with a baby is simply custodial care but did hear right wing women complain about the boredom.

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@plainoldme,

I used to read to my kids before they went to sleep, but my two boys don't remember. However, I used to take them to the bookstore regularly, and told them they were allowed to buy any book they wished - including comic books.

My son who works at the University of Texas in Austin also told me that he has met some really brilliant high school kids who have visited the university. When my son tells me that, I know he's expressing what he's observed to be true.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

My mother took us to the bookmobile every week before she learned to drive.

I began reading to my daughter when she was six or seven months old. She taught herself to read at 3 and 1/2. We read to the kids until they were 12. At that time, they decided they could read faster on their own.

When they were teenagers, I started taking them with me when I ushered at American Repertory Theatre in Cambridge, MA. For about 45 minutes worth of work, we could sit in $50 seats and watch everything from The Taming of the Shrew to the late Marcel Marceau.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

And our educational system falls further behind more countries.

As long as our teachers unions remain intact this fall will continue.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I used to read to my kids before they went to sleep, but my two boys don't remember. However, I used to take them to the bookstore regularly, and told them they were allowed to buy any book they wished - including comic books.

My son who works at the University of Texas in Austin also told me that he has met some really brilliant high school kids who have visited the university. When my son tells me that, I know he's expressing what he's observed to be true.

There are some brilliant kids around, ci. My kids, although not rocket scientists, they spent much time reading as they grew up, and they both can read very well and still enjoy it. They can at least keep up with news and figure out how to read directions on maps and how to put things together.

An interesting thing I read in the paper recently, they have kids selected in the high school as student of the month or year, or whatever, so they interview them and ask them what they like to do, their interests and hobbies,etc. This one kid, known as an outstanding kid, instead of saying he likes to play a sport, hike, hang out with his friends, etc., as many of them usually say, he said one of my hobbies is to do Algebra and calculus probems!!. I had to show the article to my wife as I slapped my forehead and proclaimed, yes there is hope afterall!! I think the kid is headed for a prime education in some kind of engineering degree school.

2 Replies

@okie,

Watch out - some of the kids who do stuff like that for fun, grow up to be evil Lefties. I can tell ya.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

I'm not sure, but I think he is also involved in the young Republican movement, cyclops. Part of the reason could be his parents are from more recent European descent, and I know they greatly appreciate the virtues and freedom of America, because we know them personally somewhat.

P.S. Isn't it nice to just share some things like this instead of arguing all the time?

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

I'm not sure, but I think he is also involved in the young Republican movement, cyclops. Part of the reason could be his parents are from more recent European descent, and I know they greatly appreciate the virtues and freedom of America, because we know them personally somewhat.

P.S. Isn't it nice to just share some things like this instead of arguing all the time?

Sure is.

But, I can tell ya: lots of nerdy young kids, who are active in the Young Republicans, grow up to be the evilest of Lefties.

It's certainly exactly what happened to me, I never could have predicted it. But one day, I just grew up emotionally and stopped being such a selfish prick. Same thing happens to a lot of young men.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

I've always had the opposite impression that when young you are liberal to prove you have heart, because of youthful emotion, but when you get older, you begin to think logically and realize that reality trumps emotion. Then you become conservative. That is what happened to me. My mother always told me that the Dems were for the little guy and the Republicans were for big business and the rich, until I grew up and realized it was business that produced and drove the economy into the wonderful machine that it was and is, if run honestly and correctly. I worked for an energy company and met many of the nicest and hardest working people I have every known in my life. Some of them were pioneers in the business not only in this country but worldwide. I realized nobody ever becomes successful by envying the rich or trying to take their stuff. People are successful by being personally responsible and focused upon goals, and that is what freedom affords us in this country. It is far better to teach a man how to fish than give him the fish, or even more extreme - already cooked and on his plate. That is the primary difference between conservatives and liberals.

One other big point. My belief does not preclude or hinder me from helping people personally in different ways. I just believe the best vehicle for this is personal and through charity, not through the almighty government that is riddled with fraud.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

I've always had the opposite impression that when young you are liberal to prove you have heart, because of youthful emotion, but when you get older, you begin to think logically and realize that reality trumps emotion and then you become conservative. That is what happened to me. My mother always told me that the Dems were for the little guy and the Republicans were for big business and the rich, until I grew up and realized it was business that produced and drove the economy into the wonderful machine that it was and is, if run honestly and correctly.

This doesn't disprove what your mom said. You just decided that the Rich were the side to be on.

Quote:

I realized nobody ever becomes successful by envying the rich or trying to take their stuff. One become successful by being personally responsible and focused upon goals, and that is what freedom affords us in this country. It is far better to teach a man how to fish than give him fish after fish. That is the primary difference between conservatives and liberals.

I don't think this is the primary difference between Libs and Conservatives at all. It also doesn't square with the Republican attitude towards education at all. If you think it's far better to educate people, why does your party work its' hardest to raise the cost of education as much as possible??

Quote:

One other big point. My belief does not preclude or hinder me from helping people personally in different ways. I just believe the best vehicle for this is personal and through charity, not through the almighty government that is riddled with fraud.

Charity is at least as riddled with fraud as the gov't. If not more so.

Anyway. Glad the kid is into math and science.

Cycloptichorn

3 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

My kids, although not rocket scientists, they spent much time reading as they grew up, and they both can read very well and still enjoy it

You've written here that you have three kids.

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@Cycloptichorn,

One of my college classmates -- a woman obsessed with her own looks -- used to organize man hunting missions (it was a woman's college). She highly recommended attending meetings of the Young Republicans because the boys were so eager to meet girls. I would have substituted another verbal for meet.

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@okie,

I became a liberal because I read history and saw how the conservative position caused problems in both domestic and foreign policy.

Then I looked at the world and saw the contradictions in the right wing position.

Then I tried to weigh the ethics of the right and could not find any.

okie wrote

Quote:

I've always had the opposite impression that when young you are liberal to prove you have heart, because of youthful emotion, but when you get older, you begin to think logically and realize that reality trumps emotion. Then you become conservative.

which is the opposite of both logic and reality.

He continued with this

Quote:

I realized nobody ever becomes successful by envying the rich or trying to take their stuff.

I find that statement strange because okie and his alter-ego ego ican vigorously support the robber barons which is, to me, nothing but me-tooism, a form of envy.

Quote:

It is far better to teach a man how to fish than give him fish after fish. That is the primary difference between conservatives and liberals.

The right would withhold all knowledge and make everyone dumb. Read Nineteen Eighty-four and Brave New World which, as ican, you tout as the sources of your conservatism.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

This doesn't disprove what your mom said. You just decided that the Rich were the side to be on.

I did not pick sides between rich and poor. I picked responsibility over irresponsibility. My mom also taught me the difference between those two things. My mom had compassion for the poor, but she also recognized that sometimes irresponsibility in people caused them to be poor, so she did not blame everyone else for their problems. My parents had both poor and rich friends and acquaintances. We ourselves were relatively poor, cyclops. I earned every dollar to go through school and my parents never shoved me out the door with a blank checkbook or credit cards. In fact, my parents never had a credit card, and their house and cars were always paid for. If they did not have the money, they didn't buy it. That is the tradition I learned, and I am eternally grateful to them for it.

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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