@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:okie wrote:george, I am surprised at your persistance in this. I would like you to address one of your examples that you have being Napoleon I think. What were Napoleon's policies regarding property rights and capitalism? What about other authoritarian regimes or monarchies? I think it boils down to whether they allowed individual rights and expression or whether everybody marched to their orders with little or no individual rights or property. For example, if a monarchy collected all of the fruits of his subjects only to dole out as he pleased, how is that much different than communism under a dictator?
I'm even more surprised at yours.
Napoleon, Bismark, and most kings were authoritarian capitalists. They protected property rights - except when it didn't suit them. Similarly to varying degrees they protected individual rights - except when it was inconvenient.
Bingo, George. Right there you disagree with your own previous assertions. Conservatives do not do what you just described. In fact, what you just described, protecting property rights and individual rights except when it was not convenient is strikingly close to today's progressives right here in this country, including Obama himself. Would you call that conservative or right wing. I would not.
Quote: They acknowledged no political authority other than their own and did not consider themselves accountable to the people they ruled.
Double bingo. You just described the liberal mindset and way of thinking.
Quote:The French Revolution and the USSR behaved in the same way except that their rhetoric about capitalism was very different.
Need any more be said, george? I believe you have gone a long way to make a good case against your own apparent belief that Hitler, the Nazis, and Fascists were on the political right.
Quote: I won't attempt to categorize Hitler, because you have made such a muddle about it already.
Why not, I thought that was the central point of this entire debate?
Quote:None of the concepts I have indicated here are either difficult or unique - indeed they are fairly commonly understood. You simply refuse to consider any alternative to your own fixed preconceptions. As long as you do that you will be unable to learn or expand your understanding.
I see no point in the endless repetition of these points. Either think about it and deal with the questions I have posed, or keep it to yourself. I have no further interest in the game.
I do refuse to consider any idea of the facts promoting a conclusion that the facts do not promote in reality. Everything posted here indicates that what Hitler and the Nazis believed and did were leaning to the left of the political spectrum when compared to what is considered left or right in this country today. Consider me hard headed, yes, you are correct, I am when it comes to something that I believe to be true. I belive it to be true because of some pretty compelling facts and evidence. One of my favorites of late has been the Time Magazine article about Hitler, declaring him their Man of the Year for 1938. I have posted the article a couple of times already, but I will do it again just to make sure nobody claims I never post evidence. I will also post one key section that pretty much seals the case for me.
If you read the article, it is also striking how Hitler's public works and government programs were not far different than FDR's New Deal or even Obama's big ideas for government projects today. Were FDR's policies or Obama's today conservative? If you think so George, I have some swamp land in Florida for sale. The evidence is real and it is compelling. So far however, you continue to ignore the evidence I have posted here, so this will probably be no different.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,760539-6,00.html
"Most cruel joke of all, however, has been played by Hitler & Co. on those German capitalists and small businessmen who once backed National Socialism as a means of saving Germany's bourgeois economic structure from radicalism. The Nazi credo that the individual belongs to the state also applies to business. Some businesses have been confiscated outright, on others what amounts to a capital tax has been levied. Profits have been strictly controlled. Some idea of the increasing Governmental control and interference in business could be deduced from the fact that 80% of all building and 50% of all industrial orders in Germany originated last year with the Government. Hard-pressed for foodstuffs as well as funds, the Nazi regime has taken over large estates and in many instances collectivized agriculture, a procedure fundamentally similar to Russian Communism."
