AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Obama's idea of spreading the wealth around does not conjure up images of everyone having equal wealth.
Obama's plan is to make everyone but liberal progressive democrat rulers equally poor and dependent on big government.

That must be why he took over all the banks, eh squirt?

When are you gonna short the market? You are losing time because when it crashes, it will be to late to short.

Correct, H2OMAN. If I understand what happens in communist countries, such as the old Soviet Union or Cuba, of course the stated utopian vision of Marxism is to achieve more equalized wealth, such as in "To each according to their need and to each according to their ability," but the utopian vision never occurs in a perfectly mathematical conclusion of equal outcomes. As you have correctly stated, the ruling class ends up being a different set of people, those being government bureaucrats, rulers, and party power brokers, instead of those that work hard and manage their own resources well in an open free market society that allows personal freedom and responsibility.

Another point is obvious here, when I said liberals desire equal outcomes, anyone with common sense knows that this is a general policy of "more equal outcomes" rather than a perfectly equal mathematical outcome of wealth down to exact dollars and cents. It is not surprising that folks like parados would argue the point by niggling over superfluous detail rather than seeing the overall point, which is obviously accurate.

I think the principle tenet of Marxism or communism is what I stated above, "To each according to their need and to each according to their ability," which is in fact one of the arguments in favor of a progressive tax system. cicerone imposter has been in fact just one of many to make that argument here that since rich people are more able to pay more taxes, then they should be paying more, in fact much more than they already are. I would not suggest that the amount of wealth redistribution accomplished by the tax system would ultimately make all citizens equally wealthy, but it does in fact move it toward that direction and if taken to the logical extreme, it might be able to achieve something close to it.

So in regard to George's statement that I overstated it, perhaps I did regarding how it usually happens, but I do not think I overstated it in terms of their intent. Their intent never materializes into actual results, because the ideology is deeply flawed and unworkable. I would argue however that by the time that scenario was achieved, it would be more like equal and universal poverty instead of equal and universal wealth, as leftists seem to think might happen. Of course there is the exception as H2OMAN has pointed out, the ruling governing class typically live far better than average citizens.

okie, How do you suppose Obama will transform the US into a communist country? Do you even understand what communism means? How about democratic republic? Spell capitalism for us.

cice poser is quite the dipshit.

That's better than a water squirt who contributes nothing of value in 100% of what you post.

thanks dipshit.

I see okie. So that makes you in favor of more unequal outcomes. Ok.. We got it.

What kind if inequality are you really looking for okie?

We already know that! Okie wants billionaires to keep their money while our country goes broke. He doesn't understand micro-economics or macro-economics based on his postings. He doesn't understand that many countries that have increased their deficits have gone bankrupt, and their citizens suffer. He wants the same for all Americans.

Without the middle class, the wealthy won't have anything to buy, because nobody will be producing anything of value. Of coarse they can purchase products made in China and other third world countries.

Nice future.

It's funny how you, pom, bvt, cice and the rest of your gang of liberal misfits feel obligated to attack A2K members that you happen disagree with, people that don't think like you. You do this in an effort to run people off and protect your close minded, self absorbed little selves here on A2K. No wonder liberals are so fucked up, you guys are practicing social inbreeding right here on A2K and you are proud of it.

What was the attack squirt? I merely asked okie a question. Because you don't know the difference somehow doesn't surprise me. You claim the economy is going to crash but I'm sure will argue that isn't an attack of any kind but I ask okie a question and it is an attack?

ci, I have never said that I thought Obama would be able to transform the U.S. into a communist country. So it would be nice if you at least would acknowledge that fact. But of course you will not. What I have generally argued is that liberals in general, including Obama, they favor more progressivity in the tax system and otherwise, which essentially uses very socialistic and even Marxist philosophy, which is "To each according to his ability and to each according to his need." You have in fact argued that more wealthy people should pay more tax or most of the taxes, because they are more able to pay it.

Further, there can be no denial by anyone that liberals, including Obama, favor spreading the wealth around. Obama himself stated that, when he was talking to Joe the Plumber. Liberals desire more commonality in outcome instead of promoting common opportunity and allowing people the freedom and equal opportunity to determine their own success or outcome, based upon individual freedom and responsibility, as conservatives favor.

I never said I wanted unequal outcomes. What I favor is equal opportunity. I would love it if every kid legitimately earned an A in class in every school in the country, but I am not unrealistic, I realize there are kids that will not work as hard as others and will probably flunk, so that I do not favor the teachers giving them an A when they do not deserve it. I would rather they flunk, so that they realize they need to study harder next time, so they can improve. The same principle applies to the free market system. Nothing is accomplished when you artificially give people stuff they do not earn, which is what liberals often promote. That policy may have good intentions, but it typically produces the opposite effect of the intentions.

okie, And you believe everybody has "equal opportunity?" How did you arrive at this amazing conclusion?

Pulled it out of his butt!

Experience. Even though I grew up poor on a lonely farm in a state filled with dumb people, "okies," I went to school, with the money I earned, learned something, got a good job, a nice spouse, and a decent family. I am happy with it. What made you into the whiner that you are? Did someone deny you what you think you deserved? And my parents did not even make me start milking cows twice a day from the age of 7, like parados claims he did, imagine that!!!!!!

Just, maybe, I'm beginning to see the inside of okie's brain.

He must believe that all Americans have an IQ of 150, and are capable to become whatever they damn well please. If you are amongst the poor or middle class, it's because you didn't work hard enough or smart enough to accumulate the wealth of the top 1% of Americans who "earned" their wealth.

That's the reason why he doesn't want the wealthy to pay more in taxes, because that would be a "transfer" of their wealth to the lazy poor and middle class.

He continues to advocate for tax cuts for the rich, because okie also belongs in that class. Damn his families and friends who are just regular Americans who earn less than $250,000/year.

They're slaves and should be beholden - bow down slum!

Me, a whiner? Please prove this statement from any place I have posted on a2k; you should be able to find something, because I'm one of the oldest members of a2k. I'll even allow you to go into the archives of Abuzz to look for any of my whining.

You're so dumb, you haven't been reading all the positives in my life over these many years. I wasn't born a okie farmer like you, and thank god for that! You don't have a memory or common sense on anything you post. Evidence for what you claim? I'm still waiting to see one.

You should go back milking those cows, and stay away from civilization where you make yourself look like a fool.

Wrong again as usual. You can't even see inside your own brain, ci. I never made close to 250 grand, not even half that, never. I don't know how you define rich, but if you think it requires a million, I don't have it, ci, and I don't need it or even want it. But at least I am not jealous and envious of millionaires like you are. Maybe you are one, from the way you talk?

I cannot bail out all of your big government boondoggles, and when liberal run California goes totally broke, please do not come whinin to the rest of us in this country to bail you out, okay.