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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 01:51 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
okie wrote:
As I've also used the analogy, if you cross a donkey with a horse, the result is a mule, not a horse.
Which might certainly be a hinny - depending on ....
Interesting point, Walter. Nobody has suggested this yet, but one could argue over whether a mule or a hinny is more similar to a horse or a donkey. Before starting that debate however, I think a mule or a hinney is not at all similar to an ultra-horse, or perhaps a wild stallion, which would be the analogy of Hitler's Nazism being ultra right wing extremist, as claimed by liberals. The mule / hinny analogy supports the obvious fact that Fascism is to the left of conservatism, not to the right. Obviously Fascism incorporates some socialism and leftist ideals, so it is obviously to the left of anything purely conservative.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Dec, 2010 01:47 pm
"As President, I will reach across party lines to strengthen and save Social Security."

http://i54.tinypic.com/14o4mbk.jpg http://i55.tinypic.com/29yp3rd.jpg

Not too expensive: Estimate $ 6,000-8,000
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 14 Dec, 2010 02:10 pm
Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=20119&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
How to Balance the Budget without Raising Taxes

Our post-World War II experience shows that if the government is going to live within its means, it can't spend much more than 18 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). The current budget situation is a bipartisan disaster that requires immediate action, according to Nick Gillespie, editor in chief of Reason.tv and Reason.com, and Veronique de Rugy, an economist at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University.

Since Bill Clinton left the White House in 2001, total federal spending has increased by a massive 60 percent in inflation-adjusted 2010 dollars.

In fiscal year 2010, the federal government spent $3.6 trillion, or 25 percent of GDP -- that's the most spending, in terms of percentage of GDP, since 1946.

Likewise, last year's $1.5 trillion deficit, as a percentage of GDP, was the largest deficit since 1945.

Most economists talk about a debt-to-GDP ratio of 60 percent as a trigger point that makes investors very nervous about a country's ability to pay its obligations. The debt to GDP ratio was 63 percent this year and the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects it will be 87 percent in 2020. Just three years ago, it was 36.5 percent.

So, what would it take to bring federal spending into line with plausible levels of revenue?

A balanced budget in 2020 based on 19 percent of GDP (based on the long-term CBO budget outlook) would mean $1.3 trillion in cuts over the next decade, or about $129 billion annually out of budgets averaging around $4.1 trillion.

The specific cuts should be open to negotiation, but the historical record shows that the available level of government revenue is fixed, say Gillespie and de Rugy.

Source: Nick Gillespie and Veronique de Rugy, "How to Balance the Budget without Raising Taxes," Reason Magazine, December 5, 2010.

Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 14 Dec, 2010 02:12 pm
@ican711nm,
Or, you raise taxes 1% on everyone. Then you have to cut nothing, and nobody feels any real pain because of it.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 14 Dec, 2010 03:09 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Or, you cut spending and entitlements by 2%. Cut taxes, and everybody is happy.

Why should any American be forced to contribute any additional money to this liberal spending binge?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 14 Dec, 2010 04:09 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Or, you raise taxes 1% on everyone. Then you have to cut nothing, and nobody feels any real pain because of it.

Cycloptichorn


Are you basing that on eliminating the current deficit or paying down the Federal debt to managable levels (~ 50% of GDP) ? The latter gets very tough if you include the present value of entitlements and the debt of Fannie & Freddy.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Dec, 2010 04:19 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Or, you raise taxes 1% on everyone. Then you have to cut nothing, and nobody feels any real pain because of it.

Cycloptichorn


Are you basing that on eliminating the current deficit or paying down the Federal debt to managable levels (~ 50% of GDP) ? The latter gets very tough if you include the present value of entitlements and the debt of Fannie & Freddy.


Well, that was just to balance the budget.

To pay down the debt, I would recommend a series of spending cuts - with emphasis towards the DoD's bloated budget, but with some taken to social programs and the DoE too - and a series of tax increases, with the creation of a NEW top tax bracket - 55%, that phases in at 10 million in income per year. Decrease SS payouts by 1% per decade and increase the retirement age by 1 year every 25 years and SS never has a problem again, and boom - there you are.

Of course, adopting Single-payer health care would basically eliminate our long-term deficit projections as well. But I don't expect people to go the sensible route on that.

Cycloptichorn
BillW
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Dec, 2010 04:26 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I don't expect people to go the sensible route
period!

Oh, and stay away from raising retirement age - retire early, it puts more kids to work. One retirement can put 2-3 kids to work. Or better, retire Wall Streeters and high management. One will put a whole bunch to work.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 14 Dec, 2010 06:55 pm
The DoD's budget needs to be increased.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Dec, 2010 07:19 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
How to Balance the Budget without Raising Taxes

Except if you are spending 19% and don't raise taxes you haven't balanced the budget. At no time after the Bush tax cuts have the receipts equaled 19% of GDP. 6 of the last 8 years receipts have been less than 17.5% of GDP.

Of course if you let the Bust tax cuts expire, then you could reach that 19% threshold.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Dec, 2010 09:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Well, that was just to balance the budget.

To pay down the debt, I would recommend a series of spending cuts - with emphasis towards the DoD's bloated budget, but with some taken to social programs and the DoE too - and a series of tax increases, with the creation of a NEW top tax bracket - 55%, that phases in at 10 million in income per year. Decrease SS payouts by 1% per decade and increase the retirement age by 1 year every 25 years and SS never has a problem again, and boom - there you are.

Of course, adopting Single-payer health care would basically eliminate our long-term deficit projections as well. But I don't expect people to go the sensible route on that.

Cycloptichorn


While raising the age for social security eligibility makes sense (and would save a lot), decreasing the "SS payouts by 1%/decade" as the baby boom generation reaches eligibility and as our overall demographic continues to age would entail fairly significant reductions in benefits and the more or less complete elimination of cost-of-living increases in benefits - something that could be easier to say than to do (particularly considering the likelihood that we are soon going to see the resumption of fairly high inflation rates).

Reducing the DOD budget by (say) 30% would yield significant savings, but might alter the geopolitical balance in the world in hard to predict ways. The DOE is a fairly dysfunctional component of government involving many disparate parts, the most expensive of which are the Los Alamos, Livermore, Sandia and Berkeley Laboratories as well as the Oak Ridge and Savannah River (SO CA) facilities as well as Harry Reid's much loved Nevada Test Site. That would entail shutting down our nuclear weapons complex - all together saving about the annual cost of the recently extended unemployment benefits. This too would have interesting geopolitical side effects.

I think you are being rather fanciful in assuming that going to a single payer, government operated health care system would eliminate our deficit in view of the fact that all of the (very substantial) existing government health care systems (MEDICARE, MEDICAID and TRICARE) have ended up costing large multiples of the government forecasts made when they were enacted. The example of Europe in which we can see the intensity of public reactions to reductions in public benefits once enacted should give us pause in considering enacting even more.

What do you suppose would be the effect on economic growth of the new taxes? The combination of high inflation and no growth ("stagflation" was the word used to describe this reality during the Jimmy Carter years) proved to be politically unsustainable and induced the Reagan revolution.

In any event it will be interesting to observe what emerges on the political scene. Left wing Democrats are expressing disappointment (rage in some cases) with Obama's politically necessary compromises. The new Republican power in the Congress is as yet untested, and almost anything could happen in the next two years as we approach the next election cycle. It is likely that the Republicans in the House will themselves propose some spending cuts (that is where spending bills must originate), but I wouldn't guess how bold (or timid) they might be. The opportunity for political partisanship and game-playing on both sides of the aisle appears to be very great. I don't hope for much.
Brand WTF
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 06:24 am
Quote:
Of course if you let the Bust tax cuts expire, then you could reach that 19% threshold.


They are now the Obama tax cuts.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 06:27 am
@Brand WTF,
This is now the Obama recession.

If we stick with Obamanomics by raising taxes and continued uncontrolled spending it will be Obama's double dip recession ~ or worse.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 06:30 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:


Reducing the DOD budget by (say) 30% would yield significant savings, but might alter the geopolitical balance in the world in hard to predict ways.


That's putting it lightly.

The DOD budget should be increased.
0 Replies
 
Brand WTF
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 06:42 am
Quote:
If we stick with Obamanomics by raising taxes and continued uncontrolled spending it will be Obama's double dip recession ~ or worse.


You have to be out of the 'dip' before you can have a 'double dip'.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 06:50 am
@Brand WTF,
Brand WTF wrote:

Quote:
If we stick with Obamanomics by raising taxes and continued uncontrolled spending it will be Obama's double dip recession ~ or worse.


You have to be out of the 'dip' before you can have a 'double dip'.


According PrezBO and VP bite-me, we just experienced the summer of recovery that brought us out of the 'dip'.
0 Replies
 
Brand WTF
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 06:51 am
Get out of Afghanistan...the war to nowhere....that's 100 billion/yr.

Don't do the ethanol subsidies...since ethanol is MANDATORY...that's 7 billion next year and 6-7 billion/yr the last three years or so.

Those are two easy cuts right there.

We all know the gov't is bloated as hell, waste everywhere that could be cut if there was any effort at all.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 07:21 am
@Brand WTF,
Brand WTF wrote:

Get out of Afghanistan...the war to nowhere....that's 100 billion/yr.


Killing radical Muslims in large numbers is easily worth 100 billion/yr.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 09:43 am
@georgeob1,
Well, I'll respond in further depth today, buy let me point out that:

- 30% is actually higher than I was envisioning for the DoD cuts - more like 20%. Not only that, but I envision the cuts in different areas than you seem to - we don't have to shut down our nuclear program.

Quote:
The example of Europe in which we can see the intensity of public reactions to reductions in public benefits once enacted should give us pause in considering enacting even more.


Your reflexive Europe-bashing aside, the truth is that the example we see from Europe is STILL one in which they pay far less for HC than we do, with equal or superior results. No matter what you think about Gov't-ran HC, it is far cheaper than our current system in terms of cost per person. You can't get around the facts by tossing out bromides.

Quote:

What do you suppose would be the effect on economic growth of the new taxes? The combination of high inflation and no growth ("stagflation" was the word used to describe this reality during the Jimmy Carter years) proved to be politically unsustainable and induced the Reagan revolution.


I don't think they would be a problem at all. I think this is a line typically thrown out by those who don't want to see their taxes go up. Not only that, but we have seen zero inflation over the last several years, and you are simply assuming that we will have 'no growth.' Due to the new taxes?

This is overblown rhetoric on your part. Taxes are at their current historical lows; raising them a few points off of this level will cause nobody to panic, George. But it does fix our financial situation nicely.

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:58 am
@H2O MAN,
This said by a man that has obviously never been there.
Killing ANYONE is not worth any amount of money.

Yes, there are times when it is neccessary to kill in war, but that still doesnt mean that it isnt without cost.
There is a lot more then a monetary cost involved.
Killing someone always leaves a amrk on a persons psyche, and no amount of money will erase that.
 

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