55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 08:26 pm
WORDS OF WISDOM FROM OUR FOUNDING FATHERS
Quote:
“If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men should possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.” -- Samuel Adams

“The powers of the federal government are enumerated; it can only operate in certain cases; it has legislative powers on defined and limited objects, beyond which it cannot extend its jurisdiction.” – James Madison

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” -- Benjamin Franklin

They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.” -- Benjamin Franklin

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” -- John Adams

“To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.” -- George Washington


Remember, the USA is not a democracy in which a majority of the citizens governed by the federal government can dictate to the minority. The USA is a representative, constitutional republic in which the powers of the majority of the citizens governed by the federal government are strictly limited.

okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 08:30 pm
@ican711nm,
Great post, with great quotes, ican. Thanks!
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 11:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
For the same reason you get upset when you get lumped into a category that you dont think you fit in.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 01:27 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Great post, with great quotes, ican. Thanks!


Ehem, okie, can't you get access to wikipedia?

Here's another link from that side, same article:
http://i56.tinypic.com/20ztx5h.jpg
http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=5&FirstYear=2009&LastYear=2010&Freq=Qtr
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 10:49 am
@mysteryman,
Yes, but that's after I've repeatedly posted the same position many times on a2k, and they still get it wrong. I have no patience for stupidity.

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 02:05 pm
RIGHTIST LIBERAL REALISTIC ANALYSIS
Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=20020&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
When the Doctor Has a Boss

The traditional model of doctors hanging up their own shingles is fading fast, as more go to work directly for hospitals that are building themselves into consolidated health care providers, says the Wall Street Journal.
• The latest sign of the continued shift comes from a large Medical Group Management Association survey, which found that the share of responding practices that were hospital-owned last year hit 55 percent, up from 50 percent in 2008 and around 30 percent five years earlier.
• The biggest U.S. physician-recruiting firm, Merritt Hawkins, said the share of its doctor searches that were for positions with hospitals hit 51 percent for the 12 months ended in March, up from 45 percent a year earlier and 19 percent five years ago.

The trend is tied to the needs of both doctors and hospitals, as well as to emerging changes in how insurers and government programs pay for care.
• Many doctors have become frustrated with the duties involved in practice ownership, including wrangling with insurers, dunning patients for their out-of-pocket fees and acquiring new technology.
• Some young physicians are choosing to avoid such issues altogether and seeking the sometimes more regular hours of salaried positions.
• Hospitals are also seeking to position themselves for new methods of payment, including an emerging model known as accountable care organizations that is encouraged by the new federal health care law.

The consolidation wave is raising red flags among some regulators, researchers and health insurers, who warn that bigger health systems can use their leverage to push for higher rates.

Source: Anna Wilde Mathews, "When the Doctor Has a Boss," Wall Street Journal, November 8, 2010.


Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=20021&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
Taxpayers' Bill on Freddie, Fannie Foreclosures: $2B

Taxpayer-funded Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have spent more than $2 billion this year on foreclosed property expenses after acquiring tens of thousands of homes through foreclosures, says USA Today.
• The mortgage giants owned more than 240,000 foreclosed homes on September 30, they reported last week.
• That's about 25 percent of all lender-owned homes in the United States, according to RealtyTrac.

Fannie and Freddie, which buy mortgages from lenders and package them into securities to sell to investors, own or guarantee half of all U.S. mortgages. Together, they have more than twice as many foreclosed homes now as they did this time last year, with a combined value of $24 billion.
• The U.S. Treasury has invested $148 billion in preferred stock in Fannie and Freddie -- and received almost $17 billion in dividends -- since taking them over two years ago.
• Their losses have narrowed, but further Treasury investments are expected.
• Excluding dividends, the government's cumulative cost could range from $142 billion to $259 billion by December 2013, estimates their regulator, the Federal Housing Finance Agency.
The longer foreclosed homes stay on their books, the larger taxpayers' expenses will be, says USA Today.
• As of September 30, Freddie Mac owned 74,897 foreclosed single-family homes, up 82 percent from a year ago, according to its third-quarter financial report.
• From January through September, Freddie spent $842 million -- vs. $480 million in the same time last year -- on properties acquired in foreclosures.
• Fannie owned 166,787 foreclosed single-family homes on September 30.
• Its foreclosed property expenses approached $1.3 billion from January through September.

Source: Julie Schmit and Stephanie Armour, "Taxpayers' Bill on Freddie, Fannie Foreclosures: $2B," USA Today, November 8, 2010.


Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=20023&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
Review of Prostate Cancer Drug Provenge Renews Medical Cost-Benefit Debate

Federal officials are conducting an unusual review to determine whether the government should pay for an expensive new vaccine for treating prostate cancer, rekindling debate over whether some therapies are too costly, says the Washington Post.
• The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services is running a "national coverage analysis" of Provenge, the first vaccine approved for treating any cancer.
• The treatment costs $93,000 a patient and has been shown to extend patients' lives by about four months.

Although Medicare is not supposed to take cost into consideration when making such rulings, the decision to launch a formal examination has raised concerns among cancer experts, drug companies, lawmakers, prostate cancer patients and advocacy groups.

"If the cost wasn't a consideration, this wouldn't even be under discussion," says Skip Lockwood, who heads Zero - the Project to End Prostate Cancer, a Washington-based lobbying group.
• Prostate cancer strikes 192,000 men in the United States each year and kills about 27,000.
• The only therapies are surgery, radiation, hormones and the chemotherapy drug Taxotere.

"To charge $90,000 for four months, which comes out to $270,000 for a year of life, I think that's too expensive," said Tito Fojo of the National Cancer Institute. "A lot of people will say, 'It's my $100,000, and it's my four months.' Absolutely: A day is worth $1 million to some people. Unfortunately, we can't afford it as a society."

Company officials say the cost is not out of line with that of other cancer drugs. Each treatment with Provenge, which the company estimates cost nearly $1 billion to develop, is tailored to each patient, says the Post.

Source: Rob Stein, "Review of Prostate Cancer Drug Provenge Renews Medical Cost-Benefit Debate," Washington Post, November 8, 2010.

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 07:18 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Ehem, okie, can't you get access to wikipedia?
Here's another link from that side, same article:
And your point is what, Walter?
talk72000
 
  4  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 07:18 pm
@okie,
Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 07:24 pm
@talk72000,
It would have been nice of Walter to at least mention why he posted the link.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 07:28 pm
@okie,
They compute GDP by the value of all goods and services produce for the year. For as long as I can remember, the economy in the US was produced by consumption that made up 70% of our GDP.

parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 08:16 pm
@okie,
You were confused about what makes up the GDP numbers okie. Did you forget already?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 08:18 pm
@parados,
Forget? I don't think he ever knew. That's based on how his opinions about economics never makes sense.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 01:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
They compute GDP by the value of all goods and services produce for the year. For as long as I can remember, the economy in the US was produced by consumption that made up 70% of our GDP.

Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product
...
The gross domestic product (GDP) or gross domestic income (GDI) is the amount of goods and services produced in a year, in a country. It is the market value of all final goods and services made within the borders of a country in a year. It is often positively correlated with the standard of living.
...
GDP can be determined in three ways, all of which should in principle give the same result. They are the product (or output) approach, the income approach, and the expenditure approach.

The most direct of the three is the product approach, which sums the outputs of every class of enterprise to arrive at the total. The expenditure approach works on the principle that all of the product must be bought by somebody, therefore the value of the total product must be equal to people's total expenditures in buying things. The income approach works on the principle that the incomes of the productive factors ("producers," colloquially) must be equal to the value of their product, and determines GDP by finding the sum of all producers' incomes.[3]
...

Production (i.e., how much is produced) is not directly correlatable with consumption (i.e., how much is consumed), or with either TOTAL US CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT or with PERCENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATION EMPLOYED.

Both TOTAL US CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT and PERCENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATION EMPLOYED are far better measures of both how well the economy of the USA is doing, and how well the American population is doing.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 02:01 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
Both TOTAL US CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT and PERCENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATION EMPLOYED are far better measures of both how well the economy of the USA is doing, and how well the American population is doing.

Sure it is ican.. And the USSR did so well because everyone was employed and it didn't matter what the GDP was.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 08:25 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Okie, I hope this helps you more than it helps me. I don't understand why employment can decrease while GDP increases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

Thanks, ican. It helps a little, but I think it stimulates more questions in my mind as well, than it answers. GDP as described is pretty much what I have always understood it to be, but I have never really tried to understand in great detail how it is calculated by various methods. I hope all do not mind if I attempt to summarize them here, and others can correct me if I am off track on any of this. Perhaps the Economy Thread would have been a better place to mention this subject, but since the issue is here, pardon me for posting this.

Here is what I gleaned from it. There are perhaps 3 different methods of determining GDP, or Gross Domestic Output. One would be the PRODUCT APPROACH, which sums the outputs of every class of enterprise to arrive at the total. I could not find any elaboration about this approach in the link, so I am unsure just how the data would be collected, and also how anything produced by the government would be included, if it is?

Another would be that of what is purchased or consumed is the "EXPENDITURE APPROACH," calculated as follows:
GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)
I immediately have some questions about the validity of this method, principally in regard to government spending. Government consumption or spending does not seem to be a good measure of anything valuable being produced and consumed. For example, we all know there is a tremendous amount of waste in how the government spends its money. And would the bailout of GM be included as part of this calculation for example? In contrast, private consumption seems like it would be a good measure of products and services having been produced that were consumed, but the purchasing of goods and services by government seems to me to be a very poor measure of the value of goods and services.

A third method in your link, for calculating GDP is apparently the "INCOME APPROACH." This approach apparently adds the following forms of income
1.Wages, salaries, and supplementary labour income
2.Corporate profits
3.Interest and miscellaneous investment income
4.Farmers’ income
5.Income from non-farm unincorporated businesses
These five income components sum to net domestic income at factor cost.
Two adjustments must be made to get GDP:
1.Indirect taxes minus subsidies are added to get from factor cost to market prices.
2.Depreciation (or capital consumption) is added to get from net domestic product to gross domestic product.

Similar questions as in the first approach would arise in my mind about this one. For example, how are social security benefits and taxes factored into this equation? Also, is government income or tax revenues factored in? They do not appear to, but I am not sure.

Obviously, this is a very complex subject, and one that a person could study in great depth for years and not completely be able to understand it thoroughly. I get the feeling that the result of any GDP calculation could be subject to at least some minor manipulation, and even perhaps major manipulation. And I was not even able to find in the article which method is used by our government to calculate GDP. It has to be in there somewhere I would think? I just hope the government has adequate control and monitor of the people involved in calculating all of this?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 09:09 pm
@okie,
okie, You answered your own question; if they measure all income from goods and services, you should be able to see why GDP grows - even at a very low rate. Most people's income increases even during this Great Recession, and if you've been keeping up with the news, inventories have been increasing (more manufacturing hours), and car sales were pretty good last month.

It's not the easiest thing to measure, because even the government revises their GDP numbers.

okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:15 am
@cicerone imposter,
I agree with what you are saying, except that I think GDP is adjusted for inflation. So only the natural growth of income from goods and services as a result of population growth would cause the number to grow slowly all the time, right?

I surely would agree it is not an easy thing to measure. And do you agree the process would lend itself to manipulation for political purposes? Of course anyone trying to to do that would risk being ratted on and that would carry much risk as well. I am making no accusation here at all, I just think the numbers could be changed by simply instituting / changing the rules of the calculation slightly.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:03 am
@okie,
okie, When we say GDP is the measure of all goods and services, that includes whatever inflation happened during that year.

Economists worry about deflation where all goods and services produced show a decline. That means all production are shrinking, and a real danger to the economy.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Economists will tell you that any deflation will be followed quickly by inflation and possibly hyper-inflation.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 01:13 pm
@okie,
Of course okie could just be a pedophile. I'm not making any accusation but I just think there is that possibility.

Aren't baseless accusations that you don't really make fun?

The manipulation of GDP data by an administration would be difficult to do and impossible to hide because the next administration would reveal it. People accused Clinton of it but nothing came of it when Bush took office. I'm sure some accused Bush of it but nothing changed when Obama came to office.


The way the numbers are calculated have changed. When a change is made, it is announced and the chart will have a note stating you can't compare that number with previous numbers. Ican ignores those notes all the time when he makes claims about the numbers.
 

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