@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
mm, Most people - who are honest - pay the income tax liability that is calculated from their income and deductions.
What you people are arguing is that taxing the wealthy more is tantamount to transferring wealth from the rich to the poor; that's bull **** number one.
Put your thinking cap on, ci, along with some intellectual honesty. It is totally obvious that if the rich are paying the vast majority of all taxes, and that if the poor are receiving more from the government in proportion to what they pay, that they are receiving redistributed wealth from the government. In fact, if you are a family of four earning about 20 grand, you will receive several thousand over and above what you pay in taxes back from the government. Now, that money certainly cannot be the same money that you paid in, so it must be money from the more wealthy that did, which obviously indicates the money was redistributed. Even if you don't receive money back from the IRS, but you pay no tax or very little tax, you are receiving services that cost money, that money being paid by higher earners, which essentially is redistribution of wealth.
Quote:Your argument number two is that the wealthy already pay their "fair share" in taxes. That's bull **** number two. When the government continues to run deficits and increases the national debt, those "loans" must be paid sooner or later. They will be transferred to our children and grandchildren. That's transferring wealth to the current people with wealth, and leaving the debt for our children. That's not logical or ethical.
Again, if the top 50% of income people in this country are paying more than 97% of the income tax collected in this country, then the top earners are in fact paying more than their fair share. Nobody in their right mind would claim that the top 50% are consuming more than half of what government spends. Are you in your right mind, ci? Try to be intellectually honest, okay? Here is the link, ci:
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
Quote:Now, you say, the rich should pay more by "volunteering" to pay more in taxes. That's bull **** number three.
mm's point is a good one. If you feel that strongly that you are not paying your fair share, you can volunteer to pay more. That is not BS as you label it. Here is the proof of that:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm
In fact this year, people have apparently already contributed 2.8 million voluntarily. It is obvious however that 2.8 million is only a drop in the bucket, in fact it is less than 1% of 1 billion, which is still only a drop in the bucket. Besides that, I would suggest that if that 2.8 million was contributed to a private charity, it might accomplish more than what it will by being given to the government.
Quote:Your last question,
Quote:do they, or do you, willingly pay more then you have to?
The answer is "yes," and several of us on these threads have said as much. I believe even Cyclo said it. Your accusation is also bull ****; that's number four.
I voted for all the propositions during the last election to a) help pay to upgrade our schools, b) maintain health insurance for all of our children, c) Establishes $18 Annual Vehicle License Surcharge to Help Fund State Parks and Wildlife Programs, and d) and prop 26 that requires a 2/3 vote to do away with hidden feess.
Most of the propositions passed; that means more Americans feel these services are justified, and we are willing to pay more in taxes to pay for them.
To clarify what you have said, do you voluntarily pay more tax, or are you volunteering all of us to pay more tax? It seems it must be the latter, as you speak of voting for higher taxes for everyone. And you speak of voting for the government to do more and to spend more, even though the debt is already astronomical. As mm has pointed out, you are free to voluntarily pay more tax. If you feel that the government should spend more, then you should be trying to help pay for it. Some of us feel that the government is already spending too much money and should cut spending, okay?
Again, here is the information about voluntary contributions, ci. Let us know how much you are going to contribute. Some of us are interested to see if you will put your money where your mouth is.
Let me guess, ci, I am guessing you will respond to this very logical post of mine, that contains useful and pertinent information for you, with name calling and ridicule of my character. Instead, how about trying to refute the numbers and the facts that I have posted, with facts of your own. That is if you think the numbers and facts are wrong. Example, if you do not believe voluntary contributions can be made, or if you do not think that the top 5% income people pay over 95% or so of the income tax. In other words, I would like to see some civil discourse out of you here, backed up by facts and figures.
