AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Not so fast, parados. I don't think I have ever assumed someone is liberal because they aren't solidly conservative. I have judged them on the positions they take. Let us take ci for an example. I do not judge him liberal because he isn't solidly conservative, I judge him liberal because he argues the liberal viewpoint on a regular basis. For example, he defends Obama and his policies almost without fail, which are clearly liberal in nature. I think he has defended TARP and Obama's overall economic policy, and he still blames Bush for the economic situation today. I will give ci credit on the Obamacare, although I think he was for it, he did express some concerns about funding. I don't know where he stands on it today, but I suspect he is in favor of it. I would actually be interested to know how he feels about it now. I will say this, I don't think ci is as liberal as you or cyclops, and certainly not as liberal as POM, that is a tough standard to exceed.

This really highlights the differences in perception, because I see CI as somewhat more Conservative than I am - his comments certainly make that clear.



You should defend TARP too - it was a successful program which has ended up costing us almost nothing. It is pretty universally agreed now that it was a plan that turned out well. It was actually one of the better decisions Bush made.

You don't have to be Conservative to blame Bush for the economic situation today - the majority of people in this country do.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2010/0421/Who-do-Americans-blame-for-the-economic-recession-Obama-or-Bush



People aren't dumb, Okie. You can't fix a big financial crisis in two years. It takes longer than that for things to get back on track. What's worse is that Obama has had to deal with the Republicans in the Senate blocking almost everything they have tried to do in order to help - we're stuck with half-measures that don't really work, because your bunch prevents full measures from being employed.

Cycloptichorn

okie wrote:

That's an outright lie~! I have criticized Obama on his health care, his expansion of the war in Afghanistan, and how sloppy he was with TARP, and other issues. You not only have a short memory, but lie about people without one iota of evidence.

Get lost, okie. You're lost in your own ****.

Another lie from POM. I doubt I ever wrote that I hated hippies. I was not a hippie and I did not agree with their drug culture, but disagreement does not imply hatred. What is wrong with you, POM? The rest of your post that I did not even include is so bizarre and mostly untrue as to be not worth my time to refute. Your posts are totally garbage, POM.

Nonsense, ci. I am about to give up on this forum completely, the libs have gone mad! I'm at least taking the afternoon off.

Yes, please do give up on this forum; nobody will miss you except ican.

And I didn't assume "doesn't love the country" meant hate without a lot of other evidence from you okie.

You called Obama a traitor. You have called Obama a Marxist. You said Obama is destroying the country. You have claimed he is doing it on purpose. The long list of names and accusations you have thrown out against Obama points to you thinking he hates the country okie. Match all that evidence with your failure to cite any strong emotion that matches your statements leads me to only one concclusion.

Get lost, cice. You're lost in your own ****.

You can also say that becoming a conservative is a sign of early onset Alzheimer's. I would say that is more accurate.

I would guess that you never watched either Roots or Roots II. My ex and I tried to watch Roots II but it was, to borrow his phrase, "mind-numbingly boring." Each show had the same narrative arc: Young rebellious man on the make becomes a success then settles into sour conservatism. Sour at best describes conservatism.

I have written several times that there are no ethics within conservatism.

Can the liberalism and emotionalism thing. Too many people have put too much time, effort and study into liberalism is listen to that ignorance.

Today, Terry Gross featured Princeton history Professor Sean Wilentz on the Tea Totalitarians and how glenn beck, sarah palin, et al., have reached back more than 50 years to retrieve the old John Birch Society.

William F. Buckley feared and loathed the JBS as he saw it as the downfall of conservatism in America. According to Buckley, the JBS lack intellectual perspective and did not realize that it is possible to be a liberal and not be a communist. Both you and ican can not make that distinction although ican is more ignorant than you are in that regard.

Please don't cite any examples because your examples never work and I can not read your material. In fact, my eyes glazed over long before I hit that sentence.

BTW, in addition to having no ethics, the American Right is what it is because it refuses to accept personal responsibility. I have argued that for years, from the abuzz day to today and will continue to argue it for the rest of my life. Why? BEcause it is true.

Has it occurred to you that ci likes to argue liberal positions because he enjoys arguing from that position?

You do not know him. You have never met him. Were you two to meet, it would have to be under your real names or other pseudonyms in order to actually hear each other, but that is beside the point. Really, how can you tell because of how he argues? There are so many other possibilities.

okie wrote before absenting himself:

okie hasn't a clue who is really "mad." He's the liar, can't remember what he reads, and twists everything from his POV which is often wrong.

More than half the hippies I knew . . . the people who wrote poetry, played music, ran small businesses, participated in food co-ops, baked bread, engaged in small scale agriculture, marched with MLK, sometimes worked for organizations like SNCC, created art . . . never touched a drug.

Just as you have no idea what a liberal is, you had no idea what a hippie was. They were all highly productive individuals.

Good riddance to you!

Ever wonder which one is the sock puppet, okie or ican? It would not surprise me to learn that they have the same zip code, nay, the same address.

okie's inability to remember what he writes is significant. Either he is going crackers or he has so many sock puppets bouncing on these boards that he can not remember which post was composed under which name.

If anyone is interested in Professor Wilentz' conversation with Terry Gross, here is the link:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130534982

The segments dealing with glenn beck and william f. buckley are particularly enlighting, while the bit on karl rove warns us that we should all be afraid, be very afraid.

Leftist liberals seek to secure their right to steal wealth others earn.

Rightist liberals seek to secure their right to retain wealth they earn.

You sound like a broken record....eetik eetik eetik...

ican may actually be so left of center that he can't make a right turn. Just think of his obnoxious personality, his continual reposting of the same few things over and over. Turns you to the left? It reaffirms the left side of the spectrum for me. ican is a fifth columnist!

As much as you condemn others for making sweeping generalities, you just did the same thing.

You started this post with the words then you ended it with the quote I started this post with.

So, even if you had known every "hippie" in the country, your two statements would be contradictory.

Having grown up in Southern Ca, I can assure you that not every "hippie" was a "highly productive individual".
Some of them were into drugs heavily, didnt seem to believe in personal hygiene, and generally didnt care about doing or accomplishing anything with their life.

BTW, the manson family were hippies also.