AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@ican711nm,

You only say that because you have no idea what 'leftist' means. The current Dem party supports a wide variety of Centrist positions, and progressive taxation is one of them.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

You only say that because you have no idea what 'leftist' means. The current Dem party supports a wide variety of Leftist positions, and progressive taxation is one of them.

A group is Leftist if it seeks to secure their right to steal wealth others earn.

A group is Rightist if seeks to secure their right to retain wealth they earn.

A group is Leftist if it seeks to interpret the Constitution as Amended according to the values of the left -- change its interpretation according to judicial fiat.

A group is Rightist if seeks to interpret the Constitution as Amended according to the values of the right -- change its interpretation only when amended in accord with its Article V.

A group is Centrist if it adopts some of these Leftist positions and some of these Rightist positions.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Why don't you cut off your left hand and leg as the left is sooooo bad?

1 Reply

@JamesMorrison,

Quote:

Is this your adopted attitude when your children ask you simple questions to which you may not have an immediate answer?

So you do compare yourself to a child? That speaks a lot. This is an adult site for intelligent adults.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclops, you should know and admit that progressive is another term for an extreme liberal or leftist, perhaps even communist. Communists know they can't win elections or gain support by being honest and openly admitting they are communists or Marxists, so they have found the term "progressive" to sound better to people, so that is the preferred term they choose.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

I asked you:

Quote:

Are you saying that of all the political parties in Europe the furthest any such entity might come to embody the principles of individual liberty/responsibility and small un-intrusive government that the American Democratic Party would be the best example of European conservatisim?

To which you responded:

Quote:

I'm not saying such.

The (US) Democratic Party would be a centrist party, with a lot of ideas in common what conservative parties represent.

This, I feel, is good news but indicative of what most American conservatives believe of Europe which is that Europeans are way too dependent on their government. However, it must be remembered that recently when it came to governmental spending the EU leaders actually chastised the Obama administration for its excess governmental spending and counseled him to decrease it (government spending). To us conservatives here having an EU telling an American government that its spending is excessive is a national embarrassment. This is not meant as a criticism towards Europeans. They are free to choose their way of life and how they want to pay for it. This is more to address the profligacy of the current U.S. administration.

Quote:

There are only a (some conservative) US-Americans who don't see Hitler on the extreme right and Stalin on the opposite side.

OK. This statement is unclear to me but perhaps we can clear it up. So let me ask the following question: As you and Europeans in general view it (you can qualify this differently if you wish), on the overall scale of European political thought is Fascism on the right and Communism on the left? I'm just trying to understand this. If not, are these two ideologies merely on a much larger scale? If so, may I assume that they would occupy one end of that scale where American conservatism might be on the opposite side? Would that be your assessment? Or do Europeans view us American conservatives as more Fascist then Communist or, even, socialist? I am sorry for all the questions but it is important to me to understand all points of opinion.

Thanks for your reply.

JM

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

OK, Walter thanks for the links! Much appreciated.

JM

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Sorry, just notoced this:

Quote:

I suppose, however, it's very difficult for someone, who is fixed on a more or less strict two-parties-system to understand any different approach, especially, of such is different in different countries ...

Agreed, it is different in other countries. Iraq just broke the record for the length of time in forming a (parlimentary) government, was it the Netherlands that held the previous record?
As you mentioned, America's system is a bit different in that the primary system tends to consolidate parties before a general election. This foregoes the need for runoff elections in the general elections. I know, six of one and half a dozen of the other!

JM

0 Replies

@talk72000,

Why don't you cut off your leftist rhetoric as leftist rhetoric is sooooo bad?

0 Replies

@Advocate,

Thumbs up!

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

No, you did not use my words. Your total lack of comprehension and your game-playing mark you as a ten year old. The problem is that you fail to see yourself. Bother? Bore is more accurate.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

So in Europe, do you have to be 100% communist, or Marxist, to be left wing

If you think the left is limited to either communists or Marxists, then you have no business making an assessment.

Quote:

And yes, I have made it clear all along here that my assessment of right vs left has been according to how we now understand it in America, and I believe that is entirely reasonable and sensible. After all, we need a credible or stable yardstick to use for measurement that represents some semblance of reality to today's world, instead of a measure that is different and changing depending upon time and place.

As retired Justice Stevens pointed out in his interview with NPR earlier this week, the entire nation has changed.

Do you understand that in each nation on earth, there are people who maintain what they themselves call an independent frame of mind, who vote "for the candidate, not the party," who sway elections and create trends? Do you understand that as technology develops, society changes? That as society changes, what is left and right changes as well?

Quote:

perhaps that is why you and other libs are so confused about the political leanings of Hitler, it is perhaps because you use different units of measure depending upon the result you desire?

We are not confused. As I have told you, my first degree was in political science. I studied government as well as political philosophy. You did not. You also seem not to read anything of substance. Your section on a reasonable measurement demonstrates your complete inability to understand human nature and society. Your efforts at quantifying are naive and simplistic.

Quote:

Obama is one of the most liberal or leftist presidents in history, if not the most liberal

Obama is a centrist, as was Bill Clinton. In total, Obama's cabinet is probably to his right. Jimmy Carter was left of Obama. Franklin Roosevelt was probably left of Obama. His cousin Teddy was probably left of Obama in several aspects.

1 Reply

@okie,

I think this is worth another attempt to try to get Walter to answer this question I posed to him.

okie wrote:

So if Hitler was on the extreme right, where does that place a very conservative free market, individual liberty and responsibility, smaller government proponent, such as Ronald Reagan? Where do they fall on some kind of a scale from left to right, Walter? Was Hitler to the right of Reagan or to the Left? And how about Mussolini? And Obama?

I sympathize with James Morrison in his attempt to find out what Walter and other Europeans actually think about what defines left vs right, and I think my questions above might help us figure this out.

0 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

it appears that folks like Walter may consider forms of what we would consider to be very socialistic

Although this was addressed to JamesMorrison, you would have been better served to have written, "you and I," and not, "we."

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

True, the Democrats are a centrist party in the US. In fact, real leftists in the US are rare birds indeed.

0 Replies

@ican711nm,

Quote:

We conservatives are working on it. First we are working to elect people who truly want to take and will take the necessary action to rescue and conserve the rule of law in the USA's Constitutional Republic.

Like the bimbos named o'donnell, angle and palin? And that cowardly girl in Arizona?

1 Reply

@JamesMorrison,

If the pledge was intentionally vague, it is perhaps that the Republicans are attempting to seduce before they rape.

0 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
So in Europe, do you have to be 100% communist, or Marxist, to be left wing

If you think the left is limited to either communists or Marxists, then you have no business making an assessment.

Maybe you need to tell Walter that, pom? It seems to me that one of the biggest arguments used by Walter and the left, to prove Hitler was a right wing whacko was because he opposed the international brand of communism as practiced by Stalin, and also because he went to war with them, thus supposedly placing Nazis on an opposite idealogical side to Communists.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

So in Europe, do you have to be 100% communist, or Marxist, to be left wing? After all, I guess you consider the Fascists and Nazis which were somewhere between capitalist and communist as ultra right wing.

No. There are 'left wings' in many parties. And generally, parties left of the centre are left wing.

You guessed wrongly: while Nazis are qua definionem extreme rights while you have left-wing Fascists. [Well, of course only, if you use "Nazi" as the German word and the German/European definition of it.]

0 Replies

@plainoldme,

I didnt use your words?
Again you claim you were misquoted.
Tell me, if these arent your words...

Quote:

Then, I think of teenaged girls from families of drug addicts, becoming pregnant and raising their babies in less than laudable family situations. I think of a young woman I once worked with who became pregnant by a man she hated but had the child. Why anyone with reason would raise the child of a man she hated is beyond me.

Then who wrote them?
And since I was responding to this part alone...
.

Quote:

I think of a young woman I once worked with who became pregnant by a man she hated but had the child. Why anyone with reason would raise the child of a man she hated is beyond me.

My questions are legitimate.

You are saying that you would not have raised that child if the father had been someone you hated.
Apparently, this woman did raise the child, according to you.
So, does that make her a better person then you, or does that make her a better parent?

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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