AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@Cycloptichorn,

The problem with your assertion, cyclops, is that the man offers sound reasoning and evidence. You would be better served to counter his evidence than you would his character and qualifications. I could attack you in the same manner, cyclops, what qualifications do you have to have any sort of credible opinion about this at all? The truth is, cyclops, history is not the exclusive property of somebody with a PhD after his name, in history or whatever, which merely stands for "Piled higher and Deeper."

Also, this is not Calculus, Geochemistry, or Rocket Science, or something like that, this is politics and history.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Here is a scholar that studied Hitler in pretty good detail and wrote a pretty good summary of the man.

It would be even more interesting if this scholar was actually a historian.

But I understand that you've picked him because you agree with what he says, not because he has any authority in the field.

1 Reply

@okie,

This from a poster who rarely, if ever, provides outside evidence. Most of your opinions are dreamed up in your own head, and that's the reason why there are no sources in support of what you say.

You have the gall to criticize others for the very thing you are guilty of. Let's see you provide more support from credible sources. Also, you continue to ignore my questions directed at your, and I've noticed you do the same to others when you can't answer them.

You are what is known is a loser. Your ability to debate consistently with any standard is missing from you; all we get is personal opinion after personal opinion - and not one credible source in support of what you say.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

The problem with your assertion, cyclops, is that the man offers sound reasoning and evidence.

No, he doesn't. He offers poor reasoning and evidence.

Quote:

You would be better served to counter his evidence than you would his character and qualifications. I could attack you in the same manner, cyclops, what qualifications do you have to have any sort of credible opinion about this at all?

I have 2 degrees in history from the University of Texas. My opinion on matters of history and the study of it is more informed than someone who didn't study history in any manner.

Quote:

The truth is, cyclops, history is not the exclusive property of somebody with a PhD after his name, in history or whatever, which merely stands for "Piled higher and Deeper."

Also, this is not Calculus, Geochemistry, or Rocket Science, or something like that, this is politics and history.

You're right - History is as hard or harder to understand then Calculus, Geochemistry, and Rocket science. The problem with you bunch who haven't been trained in it, is that you jump to conclusions in an entirely unsound and unscientific manner. This is exactly what I have warned you about on multiple occasions, Okie: taking a conclusion (that Hitler was a Leftist) and casting about for evidence to support it. It is the exact opposite of the right way to do things.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@old europe,

oe, of course you won't accept this, but Ray is apparently a scholar in behavioral science, psychology, including social psychology. He also taught social psychology, and his particular interests have been psychological authoritarianism, conservatism, racism and achievement motivation, which have spawned over 250 publications.

Now, I happen to think that the issue of left vs right, or conservative vs liberal, is indeed as much a psychological study as it is anything else, and I also think political movements are rooted in social psychology, or put into different words, it is the study of the moods of cultures and societies. And also face it, Hitler was a psychological anomaly of history, and perhaps a figure that is best analyzed by a social psychologist rather than a historian without the psychological training or understanding of human behaviorial sciences.

So oe, how do you justify your opinions to be as good or better than John Ray's, when you have no credentials in the study of psychology or social psychology, or do you?

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I have 2 degrees in history from the University of Texas. My opinion on matters of history and the study of it is more informed than someone who didn't study history in any manner.
Cycloptichorn

What degrees do you have in behavioral science, psychology, including social psychology, cyclops? Face it, those subjects relate directly to a guy like Hitler.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie, How come you're so stupid? Cyclo just said he has "2 degrees in History." Why are you asking him about other specialties? It's not relevant. Do you always ask a college professor if they have more education in other specialties than what they are teaching? God, you're dumb!

1 Reply

@okie,

What training in history and behavioural psychology do you have, okie, that you are capable of telling us that a behavioural psychologist is better suited to explain history than a historian? Why do you think you're able to determine that J. J. Ray's online postings are a more accurate portrayal than what you can read in actual history books?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

So do you not believe that behavioral science, psychology, including social psychology are applicable to the study of Adolph Hitler and the political movements in Germany during the 20's and 30's? I just want to make sure you actually think that those sciences or studies are not at all relevant?

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I have 2 degrees in history from the University of Texas. My opinion on matters of history and the study of it is more informed than someone who didn't study history in any manner.
Cycloptichorn

What degrees do you have in behavioral science, psychology, including social psychology, cyclops? Face it, those subjects relate directly to a guy like Hitler.

What a crock of ****. Pop psychology isn't a substitute for a proper education in History. And you are now moving the goalposts rather than admit that you were wrong.

What more, you don't have a degree in ANY of this ****, so I think it's fair to say that your opinion is not a learned one. Not an informed one on what is and isn't important when it comes to studying history.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@old europe,

I have read history books, and none of what I have read changes my opinion that Ray has it tabbed pretty well. In fact it wasn't long ago, I read the entire Time Life series of World War II, including the prelude to war, which covered the political events in Germany and Europe from World War I on toward the second World War.

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

You can sit in your ivory tower out there in Berkeley and hurl insults all day, but I have yet to read any credible post of yours that offers any link or evidence or even any reasoned logic as to why Hitler was a right winger. All you guys ever offer is that historians say he was, thats all.

1 Reply

@okie,

So the answer is "none"?

1 Reply

@okie,

Okie, I think it would be a mistake to expect Leftist Liberals to ever change their beliefs.--except maybe on their death beds years from now--no matter what facts and logic are supplied to show how much in error their beliefs are.

We should continue to factually and logically make our cases nevertheless in order to provide Rightist Liberals as much information as we can so that they can also show people how wrong the Leftist Liberals are about a great many things.

Also, I recommend that we both now stop responding to Leftist Liberal maligning. All they prove by that is how sick and irrational they are.

2 Replies

@old europe,

The answer is none. I have no degrees in history or psychology. Those were not my interests. I have a degree in geology, and minor in math. It is kind of humorous however, this forum offers as good of a study into liberalism as one could probably find anywhere. I can tell you from observation and my reading of history, oe, Hitler was certainly no conservative or right wing guy, he was a left wing crackpot that thought he had the road to utopia figured out, just like other lefties in history like Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Castro, the list goes on.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

You can sit in your ivory tower out there in Berkeley and hurl insults all day, but I have yet to read any credible post of yours that offers any link or evidence or even any reasoned logic as to why Hitler was a right winger. All you guys ever offer is that historians say he was, thats all.

Ivory tower?

Are YOU sitting in an ivory tower? You went to school just like I did. Does that mean that you don't know **** about your profession, that you are dumber than someone who didn't study it at all? That others should denigrate you for studying?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

Okie, I think it would be a mistake to expect Leftist Liberals to ever change their beliefs.--except maybe on their death beds years from now--no matter what facts and logic are supplied to show how much in error their beliefs are.

ican, I think liberalism, or the belief that big government holds the answers and remedies to all problems, is very much bordering on a religious belief, in fact it may be. In fact, that would match with the seeming fact that the more socialist a country becomes, the less religious it becomes, because the people have switched their religious worship from church to State. They look to State for solving their problems, and it is the State in which they place their faith. Isn't it true that many regimes both now and in history have outlawed religious worship? An exception might be in Islamic dictatorships, wherein the dictators mandate an Islamic State. I was once laughed at on this forum when I opined that such situations were also very socialistic, not only economically but also socially and religiously.

So if liberalism is a religious belief, you are correct, there is little hope in swaying any opinions here, but as you advise, I will keep trying, but maybe more in selective times and ways.

0 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

I can tell you from observation and my reading of history, oe, Hitler was certainly no conservative or right wing guy

You're seeking out people like J.J. Ray or Jonah Goldberg - people who have zero authority as historians, but echo your political views - to tell you a revisionist version of history. Your worldview doesn't allow for anything as ugly as National Socialism being associated with your beloved right-wing policies. Therefore you ignore what historians and even fellow conservatives on this forum - people like High Seas, Asherman or GeorgeOB - tell you and rather rely on revisionist interpretations of history, so you can feel safe in the belief that all evil arises from the political left.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

I guess we are better at your game if you're quitting.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Ivory tower?

Are YOU sitting in an ivory tower? You went to school just like I did. Does that mean that you don't know **** about your profession, that you are dumber than someone who didn't study it at all? That others should denigrate you for studying?

Cycloptichorn

Hey cyclops, face it, politics and history do not have the same complexity as math and science. For example, if politics could not be understood without a degree, then why is everybody allowed to vote? I mean it seems people should at least be able to read to vote, but I don't think that is even a requirement is it? So just because you have a degree in history, that does not mean you can merely say something here as fact without any backup evidence. You will need to post some reasoned evidence along with your opinions. I have seen precious little so far, in fact I do not recall any in regard to Hitler. Meanwhile, I have posted a great deal of backup evidence, which you dismiss with sarcastic comments about the authors but you don't provide meaningful debate of the points made.

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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