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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 08:57 pm
@okie,
Quote:

I have no clue what the Southern Strategy is, who devised it, what it consists of, and who came up with it, or is it merely a figment of somebody's imagination


A self-imposed limitation: willful ignorance.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 03:34 pm
Wow! Wouldn't it be meritoriously revolutionary if the principles of all K thru 12 schools conformed to these policies?
Quote:
School assembly for a new principal

To the students and faculty of our high school:

I am your new principal, and honored to be so. There is no greater calling than to teach young people.

I would like to apprise you of some important changes coming to our school. I am making these changes because I am convinced that most of the ideas that have dominated public education in America have worked against you, against your teachers, and against our country.

First, this school will no longer honor race or ethnicity. I could not care less if your racial makeup is black, brown, red, yellow, or white. I could not care less if your origins are African, Latin American, Asian, or European, or if your ancestors arrived here on the Mayflower or on slave ships.

The only identity I care about, the only one this school will recognize, is your individual identity - your character, your scholarship, your humanity. And the only national identity this school will care about is American. This is an American public school, and American public schools were created to make better Americans.

If you wish to affirm an ethnic, racial, or religious identity through school, you will have to go elsewhere. We will end all ethnicity-, race-, and non-American- nationality- based celebrations. They undermine the motto of America , one of its three central values -- e pluribus unum, "from many, one." And this school will be guided by America's values.

That includes all after-school clubs. I will not authorize clubs that divide students based on any identities. This includes race, language, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever else may become in vogue in a society divided by political correctness.

Your clubs will be based on interests and passions, not blood, ethnic, racial, or other physically defined ties. Those clubs just cultivate narcissism -- an unhealthy preoccupation with the self -- while the purpose of education is to get you to think beyond yourself. So we will have clubs that transport you to the wonders and glories of art, music, astronomy, languages you do not already speak, carpentry, and more. If the only extracurricular activities you can imagine being interested in are those based on ethnic or racial or sexual identity, that means that little outside of yourself really interests you.

Second, I am uninterested in whether English is your native language. My only interest in terms of language is that you leave this school speaking and writing English as fluently as possible. The English language has united America's citizens for more than 200 years, and it will unite us at this school. It is one of the indispensable reasons this country of immigrants has always come to be one country. And if you leave this school without excellent English-language skills, I will have been remiss in my duty to ensure that you are prepared to compete successfully in the American job market. We will learn other languages here -- it is deplorable that most Americans only speak English -- but if you want classes taught in your native language rather than in English, this is not your school.

Third, because I regard learning as a sacred endeavor, everything in this school will reflect learning's elevated status. This means, among other things, that you and your teachers will dress accordingly. Many people in our society dress more formally for a meal at a nice restaurant than they do for church or school. These people have their priorities backwards. Therefore, there will be a formal dress code at this school.

Fourth, no obscene language will be tolerated anywhere on this school's property-- whether in class, in the hallways, or at athletic events. If you can't speak without using the F-word, you can't speak at all. By obscene language I mean the words banned for radio and TV by the Federal Communications Commission plus epithets such as the N-word, even when used by one black student to address another, or 'bitch,' even when addressed by a girl to a girlfriend. It is my intent that by the time you leave this school, you will be among the few of your age to distinguish instinctively between the elevated and the degraded, the respectful and the obscene.

Fifth, we will end all self-esteem programs. In this school self-esteem will be attained in only one way (the way people attained it until the state of California decided otherwise a generation ago) by earning it. One immediate consequence is that there will be one valedictorian, not eight.

Sixth, and last, I am reorienting the school toward academics and away from politics and propaganda. No more time will be devoted to scaring you about smoking and caffeine, or terrifying you about sexual harassment or global warming. No more semesters will be devoted to condom-wearing and teaching you to regard sexual relations as only or primarily a health issue.

There will be no more attempts to convince you that you are a victim because you are not white, or not male, or not heterosexual, or not Christian. We will have failed if any one of you graduates from this school and does not consider him or herself inordinately lucky -- to be alive and to be an American.

Now, please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of our country. As many of you do not know the words, your teachers will now hand them out to you.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 04:43 pm
@plainoldme,
okie wrote:
Quote:
I have no clue what the Southern Strategy is, who devised it, what it consists of, and who came up with it, or is it merely a figment of somebody's imagination


Replace Southern Strategy with okie, and you'll get a good idea what we think of you!
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 07:04 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Don't be foolish. He specifically states that Blacks aren't fans of the Republican party because of the 40-year long use of the Southern Strategy, namely, the use of race and racial divisions to capture the Conservative south. Are you claiming that such a thing didn't exist, and that Blacks who believe it does are foolish or dumb?

I do find it to be really funny that on one hand, you're holding Steele up as an example of a Black Conservative who you like and respect, and then as soon as you find out that he is giving the game away by being truthful re: race relations and the GOP, you turn right around and start bashing the dude. Laughing

You don't think that's funny?

Cycloptichorn

I like Steele, but that doesn't mean I will agree with everything the man says, cyclops. You are trumping up this crap about a Southern Strategy, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans anymore. According to my search, it was mentioned by a Nixon campaign operative, but I think you will need to actually show that something like that is still being used, cyclops.

It is true that many whites in the south harbor pretty strong conservative views in regard to some issues, such as abortion, gay marriage, strong national defense, fiscal responsibility, and all kinds of conservative principles, and so it makes sense that those people will gravitate to the more conservative party over the radical liberal Democratic party. I would not call that a Southern strategy, I would call it a conservative strategy, and I think it works when it is tried. We saw where McCain tried the "reaching across the aisle" strategy and he fell on his face.

I also do not buy the idea that conservatism only appeals to whites. I believe it appeals to everyone to one extent or another, including blacks, and the extent of that appeal may also vary in the black communities according to their locations or regions, whether urban north or rural south for example.

I can only guess at Steele's real thinking on this. Perhaps he has grown frustrated by his inability to really make big things happen for the Republican Party and maybe irritated by certain elements in the party that are not supporting him. This could cause him to say some things in retaliation or as a result of his frustration. As I said, I can only guess at this point, I am not a mind reader.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 07:06 pm
@okie,
The only people okie believes 100% are on FOX News.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 07:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This may surprise you, but I don't believe anything 100% anymore from political analysts, and that includes Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, Glenn Beck, and all kinds of other people. Just a tip, ci, you need to listen to all the sources, examine them in the light of evidence and logic, and then make up your own mind. You are making a mistake if you swallow everything Obama and the Democrats say.

If you are interested, when the Republicans call for donations, I have been telling most of them that they won't be getting much out of me until I see a solid platform of conservative points that they will be running on.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 07:29 pm
@okie,
okie, I do listen to most credible news media; that's the reason why my opinions are not attacked like your's. I welcome challenges to all my posts. When I ask you to answer some questions concerning your post, you just ignore them. I answer mine.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 07:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, I do listen to most credible news media; that's the reason why my opinions are not attacked like your's.
I disagree. I think the main reason you are not attacked as often is because this forum has more liberals than there are conservatives. Folks like ican and other conservatives rarely attack me, in fact they often defend me and I appreciate that. You are fooling yourself when you think you have to be right by virtue of others agreeing with you.
Quote:
I welcome challenges to all my posts. When I ask you to answer some questions concerning your post, you just ignore them. I answer mine.
I'm sorry, but that hasn't been my experience. Any disagreement with your posts usually brings an onslaught of ridicule and insults, not reasoned debate.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 07:53 pm
@okie,
If that were true, you would have attacked my posts that makes sense, but you don't. You use your own imagination to provide all your responses - and they are 100% wrong. You never provide any evidence by your challenges. Your personal opinion doesn't count - for ****.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 07:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI,
While you do listen to most "credible" news sources, you seem to think that you have the only voice on whats credible.

You attack any attempt to use FoxNews, or CNS news, or any other news source that you consider "right wing".

So it does seem that you have decided what is credible and whats not.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 08:25 pm
@mysteryman,
I never claimed to be the only voice; that's your perception which is 180 degrees off.

All I've said is "all are welcome to challenge my opinions." Simple.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 08:56 pm
@ican711nm,
While some . . . please note that I said some . . . of the things this person (if it is a principal, which I doubt because ican is likely to have picked this up from some right wing hack who puts out lies and propaganda on the internet to send old people into a tizzy) writes are fine as actions and/or policies, the manner in which the statements are made is offensive.

I suggest this was written by someone lacking a formal education and without any administrative experience.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 09:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
My point is that you and others seem to always attack and condemn almost any news source that is used by a conservative as being "right wing", especially if those sources disagree with you.
You claim those sources are biased and not credible, therefore not worthy of consideration.
Yet you insist that your sources are all credible, above reproach, and completely honest.

While I am not taking sides in your argument with okie, I find it interesting that you (and others) seem to think that only your sources are credible.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 09:35 pm
@mysteryman,
I attack the content of their empty opinions that are without fact or evidence.

When okie continues to provide us with his nonsensical opinion about Obama, the constitution, and other matters that he thinks he has knowledge about, I will challenge them. When I challenge okie, he doesn't respond to the many questions I have asked. Most of his responses are of his own imagination without the support of outside, credible, evidence.

I have also welcomed anyone who reads my opinions to challenge me.

Who said only our sources are credible. If you don't agree with the source information I provide, provide your own credible source to counter them.

Do you understand anything about debate?
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:13 pm
@okie,

From okie:

Quote:
It is true that many whites in the south harbor pretty strong conservative views in regard to some issues, such as abortion, gay marriage, strong national defense, fiscal responsibility, and all kinds of conservative principles, and so it makes sense that those people will gravitate to the more conservative party over the radical liberal Democratic party. I would not call that a Southern strategy, I would call it a conservative strategy, and I think it works when it is tried.



From wiki:
Quote:
In American politics, the Southern strategy refers to a Republican Party (GOP) method of winning Southern states in the years after the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by exploiting opposition to the cultural upheaval of the 1960s/70s and in reaction to the changing economics of the South. . . While Phillips (Nixon campaign strategist) sought to polarize ethnic voting in general, and not just to win the white South, the South was by far the biggest prize yielded by his approach. . .In 1980 Republican candidate Ronald Reagan's proclaiming support for "states' rights" at his first Southern campaign stop was cited as evidence that the Republican Party was building upon the Southern Strategy again.


Five months ago, Michael Steele acknowledged the existence of the Southern Strategy and analyst Greg Sargent noted:

A lot of people are pointing to a new set of remarks Michael Steele made about the Republican Party and race, in which Steele acknowledged that the GOP hasn’t given African Americans a reason to support the party.

But I think folks are missing the real news in what Steele said. The RNC chairman also appeared to acknowledge that the GOP has had a race-based “southern strategy” for four decades, which is decidedly not a historical interpretation many Republicans agree with.

Steele made his remarks at DePaul University on Tuesday night. He acknowledged that “we haven’t done a very good job” of giving African Americans a reason to vote Republican. That’s actually unremarkable. But here’s what he also said:

“We have lost sight of the historic, integral link between the party and African-Americans,” Steele said. “This party was co-founded by blacks, among them Frederick Douglass. The Republican Party had a hand in forming the NAACP, and yet we have mistreated that relationship. People don’t walk away from parties. Their parties walk away from them.

“For the last 40-plus years we had a ‘Southern Strategy’ that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South. Well, guess what happened in 1992, folks, ‘Bubba’ went back home to the Democratic Party and voted for Bill Clinton.”

I’m not sure this is an interpretation most Republicans would agree with. The standard line is that, yes, Nixon did employ a “southern strategy.” But most Republicans would strongly contest the idea that Reagan tried to use racial division for electoral gain, an idea advanced by liberals who point out that Reagan opened his 1980 presidential campaign in the town where Civil Rights workers were murdered.

Similarly, many Republicans would reject the claim that Republican candidates like George H.W. Bush engaged in a race-based strategy with the Willie Horton ads, or that Bush the Younger or John McCain engaged in subtle race-based appeals.

But here you have the chairman of the Republican National Committee saying, in effect, that liberals are right to have argued that Republicans have used race for political gain for the last four decades. Seems significant.

Finally, just two months ago, Bob Cesca wrote:

Sarah Palin is and was a Southern Strategist.

So it's with considerable hilarity that I read her latest Facebook remarks in which she insisted there isn't a racial component to the various tea party groups.

"I am saddened by the NAACP's claim that patriotic Americans who stand up for the United States of America's Constitutional rights are somehow 'racists,'" Palin wrote in a Facebook note.
"Constitutional" shouldn't be capitalized, but I nitpick Palin's Facebook ghost writer.

Nevertheless, the NAACP was specifically referencing the obviously racist elements of the tea party, whether it's the tea party's use of Southern Strategy dog whistles to rally white support, or the very overt displays of racism, beginning with the screechy Curious George-wielding freaks outside the Palin rallies during the campaign, or the Birthers, whose whole thing is about race, or the (often misspelled) signs at tea party rallies with the president Photoshopped to look like a witch doctor.

The NAACP, with its resolution this week, wasn't even going as far as I am here in suggesting the tea party is built upon Southern Strategy politics. The members were merely requesting that the tea party denounce the racially-motivated characters within its ranks. I don't think that's such a big deal. But Sarah Palin evidently believes that the people who shouted racial epithets at Congressman Lewis are "patriotic Americans" and "somehow" not racists, when, in fact, they clearly are. These are the people the NAACP asked to be denounced. Why would Sarah Palin have a problem with that?

She also wrote, "...it is foreign to us to consider condemning or condoning anyone's actions based on race or gender." And yet she appears to be both condemning the NAACP's resolution, while condoning, by silence, the racially-motivated aspects of the tea party and, by proxy, the Republicans. Weird.

Maybe it's because those people are her people. As I've mentioned here, those lines of angry white people outside of her rallies expressing inchoate rage at the Democratic -- and possibly "Muslim" -- candidate were more or less unique to her campaign events. They're her base. These are the people with whom she's communicating when she talks about "palling around terrorists" or "spreading the wealth around." She's communicating with Americans who are predisposed to believing that poor black people have an unfair economic advantage over whites. Somehow. I'd still like to know how that works.

Just today, CNN analyst and, perhaps, the king of all wingnuts, Erick Erickson wrote an extended blog entry about how the Republicans should exploit this bogus Fox News Channel meme about the New Black Panthers. Erickson wrote that the ads should be the new Willie Horton ads. Put another way, Erick Erickson wants to reboot Willie Horton for an all new generation.

Doesn't Erickson know? Is he really this stupid? Or, more appropriately, does he believe his readers are this stupid? The Willie Horton ad was a high water mark for Southern Strategy -- for racially exploitative GOP politics. Atwater himself apologized on his death bed for using racial tactics like Willie Horton to divide voters by race. And Erickson wants to give it another whirl while insisting there isn't a racial component to the Republican Party.

Erickson wrapped by mixing some actual honesty with some lying and some denial:

The Democrats will scream racism. Let them. Republicans are not going to pick up significant black support anyway. But here's the thing: everyone but the Democrats will understand this is not racism. This isn't even about race. This is about the judgment of an administration that would rather prosecute Arizona for doing what the feds won't do than prosecuting violent thugs who would deny you and me the right to vote while killing our kids.
Once again, the preemptive "Who...? Me?" denial from a Republican who intends to exploit race, and even admits to the advantages of doing so. "Republicans are not going to pick up significant black support anyway," he wrote. Another red flag indicating the Southern Strategy in process. The GOP won't get black support, the strategy goes, so they might as well paint blacks and Mexicans as criminals and baby-killers in order to shore up the frothing, angry, scared, xenophobic white vote.

Remarkably, and despite volumes of documented evidence, including a candid admission by the chairman of the RNC, we constantly hear Sarah Palin, and many other Republicans for that matter, claiming that the Southern Strategy doesn't exist as a central component of the party. The far-right (and not-so-far-right) totally denies the existence of the Southern Strategy in the face of cold, hard historical fact while also embracing its tactics and language. You'll see the denial throughout the comments below this post, I'm sure (along with accusations that I'm somehow a racist against white people even though I'm, you know, white). This is a faction of Americans whose entire strategic foundation, say nothing of its ideological foundation, is based upon deliberate ignorance of empirical reality, so it's no wonder.

Palin and Erickson might not be racists, but it's always a good idea to question with great scrutiny the character of anyone who profits from deliberate ignorance and, likewise, anyone who would freely exploits racial hatred for political gain. Unfortunately, these two units are doing pretty well for themselves by engaging in both.


0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Maybe I am not making myself clear enough.

When someone uses Fox News as a source, you immediately claim its not a credible source and should be ignored.
When someone uses CNS, or any other conservative news source, you claim its not credible and should be ignored.
Yet you seem to believe that all of your sources are credible and should be taken as gospel.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 11:24 pm
okie . . . why did your father leave green and leafy Denmark to live in the Dust Bowl?
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 11:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
okie is clearly operating in the realm of denial here. He would raise himself in our esteem if he faced the issue of the Southern Strategy rather than deny it ever existed.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 10:41 am
@mysteryman,
mm, Why do you lie so much? Is it ingrained or learned it from your parents?

Never heard of CNS, don't know about it, and I do not watch tv all that much.

The reason I know FOX News is bogus, is because of what okie posts from that biased station.

Here's one example of FOX News:
Quote:
Fox News runs with San Bernardino ACORN video without needed fact check
September 16, 2009 7:17 pm ET — 40 Comments

On September 15 and 16, Fox News devoted significant programming to conservative filmmaker James O'Keefe and TownHall.com columnist Hannah Giles' video of their interactions with an ACORN worker, who claimed she murdered her husband and gave advice on how to run a brothel, but stated after the video was released that she had merely been attempting to "shock them as much as they were shocking me." In running with the video, Fox News hosts frequently promoted the fake claim that the ACORN employee killed her husband without fact checking the allegation or indicating that they had contacted ACORN for a response.


It's typical FOX News SOP, run with a story for its shock value without first checking it out.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 01:28 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

okie . . . why did your father leave green and leafy Denmark to live in the Dust Bowl?

I wish my father was here to answer you. From what has been told, he left in search of a better life. He came here before the Dust Bowl years, but even the Dust Bowl was better than the extreme poverty back home. He came through Ellis Island to Chicago first where his uncle sponsored him. He worked for him for a while until the work ran out during the depression. By then, it was the early to mid 30's, and like the current situation, FDR's New Deal was not the magic bullet it was sold as being, so he rode the rails and drifted into Oklahoma where he had heard farm work was available for maybe a dollar a day or so, plus room and board. My grandfather in Denmark was so poor that he could barely afford a bicycle to ride more than 5 or 10 kilometers to work.

Even I worked for a farmer during the summers for still just a few dollars a day plus room and board in the 60's, pom, but it was still enough to save and pay my way through college.

Actually, thanks for asking. I am proud of the legacy of farming and the work ethic it taught us on the plains of Oklahoma.
 

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