AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@okie,

Quote:

Again demagoguery at your finest, cyclops, but of course that is what you do. Anti terrorist is what we are.

You truly are blind to it, Okie. Truly.

What do you think of someone who refuses to see any fault in anything they or their party does, and simply blames everyone else for the problems? Do you normally consider that to be an accurate view of any situation?

I think a more realistic assessment of your party's relations with minorities would include an admission that there have been a wide variety of problematic statements in the past by many members who are still in good standing. And this is one of the things that has directly lead to failures amongst your party in these groups.

But why take my word for it? Let's just ask.... Michael Steele, who agrees completely with me and disagrees with YOU, Okie.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/22/michael-steele-for-decade_n_547702.html

Quote:

Earlier this week, RNC Chairman Michael Steele told a group of 200 students at DePaul University that African-Americans "don't have a reason" to vote for Republican candidates.

During his remarks he also acknowledged that for decades the GOP pursued "'Southern Strategy' that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South."

Steele was asked to explain why an African-American should vote Republican at a university-sponsored discussion on the conservative movement. The RNC chairman's response: "You really don't have a reason to, to be honest -- we haven't done a very good job of really giving you one. True? True."

Steele also discussed with students his own experience being the victim of racial discrimination -- a subject that the he has openly addressed in the past. Steele told TV One's Roland Martin in November that even some of his fellow Republicans are "scared" of him because of his race.

Steele acknowledged his party's failure to reach out and connect with African-Americans and other marginalized communities. "We have lost sight of the historic, integral link between the party and African-Americans," he explained.

Steele went on to make a candid statement about how the disconnect between Republicans and minorities is not new and has been a part of the party's strategy for years. The Chicago-Sun Times reports on what the RNC Chairman had to say:

Quote:
For the last 40-plus years we had a 'Southern Strategy' that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South. Well, guess what happened in 1992, folks, 'Bubba' went back home to the Democratic Party and voted for Bill Clinton.

To pretend that the GOP didn't use racism and bigotry as a prime tool for getting elected, Okie, is to be completely ignorant of modern political history. And what more, you also obviously believe that most Blacks are too stupid to get what your side is constantly getting at. It's ridiculous.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

You truly are blind to it, Okie. Truly.

What do you think of someone who refuses to see any fault in anything they or their party does, and simply blames everyone else for the problems? Do you normally consider that to be an accurate view of any situation?

I think a more realistic assessment of your party's relations with minorities would include an admission that there have been a wide variety of problematic statements in the past by many members who are still in good standing. And this is one of the things that has directly lead to failures amongst your party in these groups.
Cycloptichorn

Look, I am not goofy enough to think that I always agree with anything and everything the Republican Party does. From my observation, it seems you are the one most prone to defend your Democratic Party, no matter what it does. I am a conservative first, and a Republican down the line a ways, mostly because the Republicans are closer to my views than any other party. The Democrats are now completely off the reservation as far as I am concerned.

Speaking of problematic statements, what about problematic associations which are more serious than statements in my opinion. What about KKK Byrd, he was treated as royalty to his last day in Congress by your party. And your party circles the wagons to defend any of your corrupt officials and members, and of late it seems the members of the Black Caucus are really having problems. Do we hear your party asking for them to step down? Of course not.

You can do the searching, cyclops, there is plenty more besides what my link talks about.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/41953.html

1 Reply

@okie,

Are you not going to discuss at all, the fact that the leader of your party specifically disagrees with you, and agrees with me?

You can't just not respond to points other people make and hope that they will go away, Okie. This is a guy who you say you like and respect. Do you agree with him on this issue or not?

Trying to shift to an attack on the Democrats isn't going to work.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

But why take my word for it? Let's just ask.... Michael Steele, who agrees completely with me and disagrees with YOU, Okie.Cycloptichorn

I haven't been aware of some of Steele's statements, cyclops. Who knows what his motivations and thinking might be. Perhaps there is much going on behind the scenes, for example I have heard that some factions of the party want him replaced, I think primarily for some of his controversial statements, and maybe they disagree with his strategies for the party.

If Steele is implying blacks don't have a reason to vote Republican because Republicans are not pandering enough or offering more favors, then I disagree with the man. Until shown more information however, I have been a Steele supporter. I think he has definite opinions, and he should be commended for that, but in his position perhaps he needs to use more discretion to do a good job of chairing the party?

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

But why take my word for it? Let's just ask.... Michael Steele, who agrees completely with me and disagrees with YOU, Okie.Cycloptichorn

I haven't been aware of some of Steele's statements, cyclops. Who knows what his motivations and thinking might be. Perhaps there is much going on behind the scenes, for example I have heard that some factions of the party want him replaced, I think primarily for some of his controversial statements, and maybe they disagree with his strategies for the party.

If Steele is implying blacks don't have a reason to vote Republican because Republicans are not pandering enough or offering more favors, then I disagree with the man.

Don't be foolish. He specifically states that Blacks aren't fans of the Republican party because of the 40-year long use of the Southern Strategy, namely, the use of race and racial divisions to capture the Conservative south. Are you claiming that such a thing didn't exist, and that Blacks who believe it does are foolish or dumb?

I do find it to be really funny that on one hand, you're holding Steele up as an example of a Black Conservative who you like and respect, and then as soon as you find out that he is giving the game away by being truthful re: race relations and the GOP, you turn right around and start bashing the dude. Laughing

You don't think that's funny?

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

When has okie ever been consistent?

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

You can't just not respond to points other people make and hope that they will go away, Okie. This is a guy who you say you like and respect. Do you agree with him on this issue or not?

Cycloptichorn

I will need to learn more about specific issues he is talking about, cyclops. He can't just make a statement without examples and then expect everyone to nod their heads in agreement.

In reference to the GOP using racial politics in the south to win the white vote, that seems highly questionable statement to make, cyclops, no party is going to purposely do that. Perhaps some people have that impression, but we need to examine where that impression derives from. In other words, I need more evidence than what Steele said.

2 Replies

@okie,

Is that anything like your posts on a2k? LOL

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
You can't just not respond to points other people make and hope that they will go away, Okie. This is a guy who you say you like and respect. Do you agree with him on this issue or not?

Cycloptichorn

I will need to learn more about specific issues he is talking about, cyclops. He can't just make a statement without examples and then expect everyone to nod their heads in agreement.

In reference to the GOP using racial politics in the south to win the white vote, that seems highly questionable statement to make, cyclops, no party is going to purposely do that. Perhaps some people have that impression, but we need to examine where that impression derives from. In other words, I need more evidence than what Steele said.

Wow. I'm starting to think that maybe you really are ignorant of the fact that the GOP used exactly this strategy after the Civil Rights act passed. And it's not a matter of impressions or perceptions, Okie. It's a fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Quote:

In American politics, the Southern strategy refers to a Republican Party (GOP) method of winning Southern states in the years after the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by exploiting opposition to the cultural upheaval of the 1960s/70s and in reaction to the changing economics of the South.

This is exactly what Republicans do. They are doing it today, with the anti-Muslim sentiment issues being whipped up by your politicians and pundits: using racism and fear to scare whites into voting Republican. And Steele accurately recognized this as a major reason why modern Blacks have very little reason to vote for the GOP, even if they are Conservative.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Excellent article below: That includes you, cyclops, that keeps the racist stuff alive with your "shameless and frankly repulsive mantra."

http://www.examiner.com/civil-rights-in-portland/the-tea-party-civil-rights-and-racism

"....
It is nothing short of staggering, that those on the left who claim to be the champions of down trodden minorities (Black and Hispanic Americans), could so viciously and unjustly accuse the right of racism as it has been doing with such astounding venom in the past year. ‘All we see are images of white tea partiers, “they must be racists!”’ is their cry. One has to wonder why such personalities as Alfonzo Rachel are not being interviewed for their beliefs on CNBC.

This is categorically false. While there are racists left in America, by and large they are not found in the tea party. Conservative Black leaders are not only welcomed, they are welcomed as kindred spirits, brothers and sisters, fellow Americans.

Indeed, the tea partiers are not waiting around for a government handout, and this seems to be their real crime against the left. Skin color has nothing to do with it. “Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom” is their blunt rallying call, and they could care less what the color of anyone’s skin is. It isn’t about race, it is about protesting a government that is taking too much from them, and giving it to those who didn’t do a damned thing to earn it.

The disgusting goad of racism is beyond untrue, it is immoral and fundamentally without any honor whatsoever. Only when the left lets go of its shameless and frankly repulsive mantra, will racism ever end, because it is they who are keeping it alive."

2 Replies

@okie,

I'm not interested in an angry rant of an editorial by some lady in WA. It doesn't provide any real facts for us to discuss or have any relevance to the current conversation, other than the fact that she has gotten pissy that the Tea Partiers are being accurately described.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

It has relevance because it identifies what you are engaged in, cyclops. You should frankly be ashamed of yourself.

But as I have often pointed out, demagoguery is the Democrats stock and trade.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

It has relevance because it identifies what you are engaged in, cyclops. You should frankly be ashamed of yourself.

You don't have a response to the factual post about the Southern Strategy? You're going to just pretend that it doesn't exist?

There's nothing to respond to in the piece you posted. It has nothing to do with what I'm 'engaged in' at all, other than the fact that this lady, like yourself, is getting really angry instead of addressing the fact that Blacks and other minorities have historically had poor relations with the GOP for reasons that have nothing to do with the Democrats. At all.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@okie,

One article by a conservative who's bias sticks out like his ignorance. His charge that the democrats doing "astounding venom in the past year" shows no proof of it; just his unfounded declarations - like all conservatives who talk without providing any detail - just accusations.

As a matter of fact, okie, he mimics your posts; no evidence, no credibility.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

It has relevance because it identifies what you are engaged in, cyclops. You should frankly be ashamed of yourself.

You don't have a response to the factual post about the Southern Strategy? You're going to just pretend that it doesn't exist?
Cycloptichorn

I have no clue what the Southern Strategy is, who devised it, what it consists of, and who came up with it, or is it merely a figment of somebody's imagination? If you can provide something in black and white that describes what it is and that it is a Republican Party policy, fine, but if its nothing more than somebody's invented opinion, I'm not interested, cyclops.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

It has relevance because it identifies what you are engaged in, cyclops. You should frankly be ashamed of yourself.

You don't have a response to the factual post about the Southern Strategy? You're going to just pretend that it doesn't exist?
Cycloptichorn

I have no clue what the Southern Strategy is, who devised it, what it consists of, and who came up with it, or is it merely a figment of somebody's imagination? If you can provide something in black and white that describes what it is and that it is a Republican Party policy, fine, but if its nothing more than somebody's invented opinion, I'm not interested, cyclops.

I just linked to an extensive Wikipedia article, with hundreds of links and factual attributions, a few posts above. Did you see that post of mine?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

I read part of your article, and I quote a small part of it at the end of my post. I do respect Steele and his opinions, so I will file that away for reference, cyclops. Lets face it though, politicians will pitch for votes in lots of ways, and somewhere in your article was reference to Jimmy Carter doing that very thing as well, similar to what Republicans are accused of. So I wonder if such strategies are used by all politicians. It is called pandering, and the types of pandering varies group by group. The really sad thing as I see it, is the fact that we should all see ourselves as individuals, not as a member of some group. We should make decisions and also vote as individuals, not because some supposed leader of some group told us to vote a certain way. In fact, I have heard many blacks express resentment toward the likes o Jessie Jackson for claiming to speak for all blacks, and I heartily agree with their justification to resent that.

I believe the sooner we quit referring to race, the sooner we will put racism behind us. I am even in favor of scrapping racial classifications and counting by the Census Bureau, as I do not think it is productive at all. For instance, I am half Danish by heritage, but I seldom ever think of myself that way, in fact this statement is one of only a few times that I have even said that to anyone.

Here is the quote from your article, cyclops, which seems to indicate the Southern Strategy is tied to moral values. What is wrong with that? Actually I think that should be part of every political party platform anyway. If it appeals more to certain groups than others, so be it. I would not advocate something that is wrong, such as promoting illegal immigration just to get the illegal vote, cyclops. I think a party should be based upon sound principles that cut across all racial lines, and other superficial types of lines. The principles should appeal to all Americans, or all Americans that have those values, such as conservative and moral values.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

"In recent years, the term "Southern strategy" has been used in a more general sense, referring to the way in which political parties use cultural themes in election campaigns — primarily but not exclusively in the American South. In the past, politicians' highlighting of issues such as busing or states' rights appealed to white angst about integration. More recently, Republican politicians made appeals to "conservative values", and used cultural issues such as gay marriage, abortion, and religion to mobilize their base. This has also been viewed as the Southernization of American politics."

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@Cycloptichorn,

As if anything okie observes is congruent with reality.
Rolling Eyes

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@Cycloptichorn,

okie has no idea how poll questions are constructed: he doesn't realize that Rasmussen et al can and do compose questions so that the only answers given are the ones they want. It's a first cousin to yellow journalism.

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@okie,

Quote:

Unfortunately, it is a fact that the black community has been mostly convinced that their best interests lie with the Democratic Party, and so we see them consistently vote 90% Democrat

Looks like most Black people are smarter than you are.

Ever heard Black people ridicule Black republicans? They become very angry.

0 Replies

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