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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 11:54 am
@ican711nm,
ican, Show me where I've misquoted recent or past history. You still haven't provided a list of things that you claimed I said were wrong.

Please provide me a list of recent or past history where I was wrong.

Can you do that, okie? Please!

As for your misquotes of history or economics, one need only read all those who disagree with you on history and economics.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 12:00 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Gee, part of the impetus for my decision to become a leftie were the books Brave New World, 1984, On the Beach, Animal Farm and The Hills WEre Liars.

AH HA! .... HMM! ... NAAA! ....

Sigh! I don't really believe you are that dumb! In fact I don't believe you are dumb enough to believe much of what you claim to believe.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 12:04 pm
@ican711nm,
Look who's using "dumb and believe" in the same post; mr ignoramus.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 12:06 pm
Here's evidence of you accusing others of what you do!
cicerone imposter wrote:
Face it, okie, GW Bush sent in war machines into Iraq when the UN Inspectors were there to look for WMDs, and he chased them out to start his war. We ended up killing hundreds of innocent Iraqis, and increasing the number of al Qaida around the world with this decision.

Let's face it, okie, you have no perspective of history, or even have the memory to remember it correctly.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 12:10 pm
@ican711nm,
They are factual accusations. You haven't shown me where I have misstated history or lied about any issue. Please provide me with a list of my lies.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 12:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Cicerone imposter, I am not accusing YOU of lying. I'm accusing you of being what you accuse others of being--what amounts to being ignorant.

You claimed:
GW Bush sent in war machines into Iraq when the UN Inspectors were there to look for WMDs, and he chased them out to start his war. We ended up killing hundreds of innocent Iraqis, and increasing the number of al Qaida around the world with this decision.

You did not provide any evidence to support these claims of yours. Your claims absent evidence are your responsibility to show why you think them true, not mine to show why I think them false.

After you provide evidence to support your claims, I will review it and decide whether or not I think your evidence valid or invalid.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 12:29 pm
@ican711nm,
I accuse people of making erroneous statements concerning politics or economics.

On the same token, I'm asking you to list for me where I have made erroneous statements about politics or economics.

I have seen many posters on a2k challenge your statements; and most of the time I agree with them. How many have you seen agreeing with your statements - with the exception of okie?
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 02:22 pm
Well we all know that Dodd-Frank did not address Fan and Fred, but they are back in the news. Congressman Hensarling (R-TX) has proposed a plan to deal with the GSEs while President Obama will be coming out with his plan soon. I expect noticible differences between the plans. But here is a short video that explains what happened with the two by a guy who worked for them with some down in the weeds details. Notice how the government's social engineers, and not greedy Wall Street types, steered the housing market with the hoped for outcome of 'greater equality'. Compare this with the results of said social engineering experiment.

JM
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 02:27 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Two Republicans standing around blaming problems on the Government, and not on greedy and foolish investors?

Shocking!

Cycloptichorn
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 02:31 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Here is GWB on social engineering i.e. Home Ownership Program.





JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 03:05 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
Here is GWB on social engineering i.e. Home Ownership Program.


I am uncertain as to your point here. Is it that Democratic party social engineers employed by the government are no better than those belonging to the GOP? If so, I agree. But the point we should take is that we might all be better off with less government intervention into free markets no matter what party they hail from.

But since you opened the Blame Bush door, I do remember his attempt to rein in Fan and Fred sometime before the debacle.

JM
talk72000
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 03:11 pm
@JamesMorrison,
GWB started the Home Ownership in 2002 as shown which was used to economically cover up the disaster of the Gulf War which was sucking $4 billion a month from taxpayers for his personal/family vendetta.
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 03:23 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Two Republicans standing around blaming problems on the Government, and not on greedy and foolish investors?


How do you know they are Republicans?

Greed is a subjective judgement. It is used by the left as an effective disparagement to cow those who would ask for analytical truth backed by empirical data which then might discredit leftist or statist programs. The term 'Greed's general and effective use may very well diminish (as has the racist epithet) through overuse and the desire of increasing numbers of voters who seek objective truths. These truths would allow us all to make better political and financial decisions about the future.

JM
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 03:29 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JamesMorrison wrote:

Quote:
Two Republicans standing around blaming problems on the Government, and not on greedy and foolish investors?


How do you know they are Republicans?


They are doing a piece for the WSJ, what else do you suspect they are? It is a mouthpiece for Republicans and Conservatives.

Quote:

Greed is a subjective judgement. It is used by the left as an effective disparagement to cow those who would ask for analytical truth backed by empirical data which then might discredit leftist or statist programs.


Bull ****. I normally just ignore most of what you write, because it's clear that ideology trumps reality in your existence most of the time. But this is a pure falsehood. You don't look for 'analytical data' of any type when deciding what is best for the country; you let your ideology drive what you think should be done, and damn the consequences.

Quote:
The term 'Greed's general and effective use may very well diminish (as has the racist epithet) through overuse and the desire of increasing numbers of voters who seek objective truths. These truths would allow us all to make better political and financial decisions about the future.


What truths? Such as the fact that we are paying the lowest historical tax levels of the last 70 years? That taxes, if anything, should go up in order to cover the cheques written by Bush and others for wars? When are you going to face the truth of the situation that we find ourselves in?

I suspect never; instead, you will continually call for lowered taxes and less regulation, and simply not give a **** when reality once again fails to match your projections.

Cycloptichorn
JamesMorrison
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 03:31 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
GWB started the Home Ownership in 2002 as shown which was used to economically cover up the disaster of the Gulf War which was sucking $4 billion a month from taxpayers for his personal/family vendetta.


Oh, I didn't know that. But, apparently it didn't work did it? I mean, you found him out! Smile

JM
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 04:22 pm
@JamesMorrison,
I believe that was $4 billion a week. Might want to research that. GWBush cost this country lot'sa money for an illegal war. He shoved out the UN Weapon's Inspectors to start his war. What was the rush? Saddam didn't have any WMDs.

Edit: From About.com:
Quote:
Iraq War Facts, Results & Statistics at July 27, 2010
4,4136US Soldiers Killed, 31,897 Seriously Wounded

By Deborah White, About.com Guide
See More About:

* iraq war
* iraq war casualties
* iraq war spending
* war spending
* bush failures

Effort!www.Systat.com
Aug 9 2010
For your quick reading, I've listed key statistics about the Iraq War and occupation, taken primarily from data analyzed by various think tanks, including The Brookings Institution's Iraq Index, and from mainstream media sources. Data is presented as of July 27, 2010, except as indicated.

U.S. SPENDING IN IRAQ

Spent & Approved War-Spending - About $900 billion of US taxpayers' funds spent or approved for spending through Sept 2010.

U.S. 2009 Monthly Spending in Iraq - $7.3 billion as of Oct 2009

U.S. 2008 Monthly Spending in Iraq - $12 billion

U.S. Spending per Second - $5,000 in 2008 (per Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on May 5, 2008)

Cost of deploying one U.S. soldier for one year in Iraq - $390,000 (Congressional Research Service)

Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq - $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.

Missing - $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces. (Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq - $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported - $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items - $20 billion

Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 06:20 pm
OK, for the sake of argument, let's all agree Bush WAS no damn good.

Can we all agree Obama IS no damn good?

Further, can we all agree Obama is far worse than Bush?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 06:31 pm
@ican711nm,
We have identified why Bush is no damn good. Please identify for us why Obama is no damn good? Simple, isn't it.
realjohnboy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 06:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You shouldn't have said that, C.I. Ican will now post again all of his cut and paste thingees for us to thumb down because they are (a) very long, (b) repetitive and/or (c) are written with his signature large, muliticolored bold type.

By the way, CI, you and others are invited to drop by my thread called "Oh, No! Election Day Is November 2nd..." It is all about polling in various states for Senate, House and Governors' races. There are very few players but a fair number of folks tell me they view it.
I have invited people to write about things in, for example, in their states. Can you talk about CA?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2010 09:00 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JamesMorrison wrote:

Greed is a subjective judgement. It is used by the left as an effective disparagement to cow those who would ask for analytical truth backed by empirical data which then might discredit leftist or statist programs.
JM


Bingo! Virtually all prominent leftists in history used the subject of greed to demagogue the free market system and freedom. Actually, just listen to Obama friend and spiritual (and I think political) mentor, Jeremiah Wright, and you would hear plenty about the greed of rich whites and Jews, while praising the likes of Hugo Chavez and Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.
0 Replies
 
 

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