AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

I am just curious how a given US debt with a given interest rate on the majority of that debt can suddenly require 20% less money to pay the interest on that debt. The only way I can see it happening is magic. It certainly can't be done by using real numbers.

By the way, your 2 schools of thought are pretty simplistic in that you assume it can only be one or the other. It will require both to balance the budget. There is no other way.

Sure, and they are suggesting that now but as we see with the Price budget, they don't have a viable solution that could work at all because it doesn't face reality.

SATURDAY, JUL 17, 2010 14:50 ET

Neo-Nazi Minuteman hunts Arizona immigrants
Jason "J.T." Ready identifies with the National Socialist Movement, alerts authorities to border crossings

BY MICHELLE PRICE, ASSOCIATED PRESS

Minutemen groups, a surge in Border Patrol agents, and a tough new immigration law aren't enough for a reputed neo-Nazi who's now leading a militia in the Arizona desert.

Jason "J.T." Ready is taking matters into his own hands, declaring war on "narco-terrorists" and keeping an eye out for illegal immigrants. So far, he says his patrols have only found a few border crossers who were given water and handed over to the Border Patrol. Once, they also found a decaying body in a wash, and alerted authorities.

But local law enforcement are nervous given that Ready's group is heavily armed and identifies with the National Socialist Movement, an organization that believes only non-Jewish, white heterosexuals should be American citizens and that everyone who isn't white should leave the country "peacefully or by force."

"We're not going to sit around and wait for the government anymore," Ready said. "This is what our founding fathers did."

An escalation of civilian border watches have taken root in Arizona in recent years, including the Minutemen movement. Various groups patrol the desert on foot, horseback and in airplanes and report suspicious activity to the Border Patrol, and generally, they have not caused problems for law enforcement.

But Ready, a 37-year-old ex-Marine, is different. He and his friends are outfitted with military fatigues, body armor and gas masks, and carry assault rifles. Ready takes offense at the term "neo-Nazi," but admits he identifies with the National Socialist Movement.

"These are explicit Nazis," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project. "These are people who wear swastikas on their sleeves."

Ready is a reflection of the anger over illegal immigration in Arizona. Gov. Jan Brewer signed a controversial new immigration law in April, which requires police, while enforcing other laws, to question a person's immigration status if officers have a reasonable suspicion that the person is in the country illegally.

But Brewer hasn't done enough, Ready said, and he's not satisfied with President Barack Obama's decision to beef up security at the border.

Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu said there haven't been any incidents with the group as they patrol his jurisdiction, which includes several busy immigrant smuggling corridors. But Babeu is concerned because an untrained group acting without the authority of the law could cause "extreme problems," and put themselves and others in danger.

"I'm not inviting them. And in fact, I'd rather they not come," Babeu said. "Especially those who espouse hatred or bigotry such as his."

Law enforcement officials said patrols like Ready's could undercut the work of the thousands of officers on duty every day across the border, especially if they try to enforce the law themselves in carrying out vigilante justice.

Ready said his group has been patrolling in the desert about 50 miles south of Phoenix, in an area where a Pinal County Sheriff's deputy reported he was shot by drug smugglers in April.

Bureau of Land Management rangers met Ready's group during one patrol, and they weren't violating any laws or looking for a confrontation, said spokesman Dennis Godfrey.

The patrols have been occurring on public land, and militia members have no real restrictions on their weaponry because of Arizona's loose gun laws.

The militia is an outgrowth of border watch groups that have been part of the immigration debate in Arizona. Patrols in the Arizona desert by Minutemen organizations brought national attention to illegal immigration in 2004 and 2005.

Such groups continue to operate in Arizona, and law enforcement officials generally don't take issue with them as long as they don't take matters into their own hands.

Border Patrol spokesman Omar Candelaria said the agency appreciates the extra eyes and ears but they would prefer actual law enforcement be left to professionals.

Former Minutemen leader Al Garza recently created the Patriot's Coalition, which uses scouts and search-and-rescue teams to alert the Border Patrol and provide first aid to illegal immigrants.

Depending on the availability of volunteers and the scouts' evidence of border crossers, patrols can vary from several times a week to once a month, Garza said. The operation is about 500 people, and includes a neighborhood watch program, legislative advisers and a horseback patrol, he said.

Technology, rather than manpower, is the focus of Glenn Spencer's American Border Patrol. The group is based at his ranch near the border. The five-man operation flies three small airplanes to ensure that the Border Patrol is present and visible along the international line.

Spencer also uses Internet-controlled cameras and works with a group called Border Invasion Pics, which posts photos of people they suspect are crossing illegally.

"Sitting out there with a bunch of volunteers looking for people is generally a tremendous waste of people and time," Spencer said. "And it's also dangerous."

Ready said he's planning patrols throughout the summer.

"If they don't want my people out there, then there's an easy way to send us home: Secure the border," he said. "We'll put our guns back on the shelf, and that'll be the end of that."

While several members of this forum deny that the American right is a kissing cousin of the Nazi Party, these extreme right wing, conservative Americans actively identify with the Nazis and wear that party's regalia.

They also express many beliefs that align the American Right with the German Right of the early to mid-20th Century, that is, the Nazi Party.

You wonder why some people dont take you seriously??

You constantly say "All conservatives" are whatever evil you want them to be.
You have said that only conservatives and the right wing owned slaves, yet you have also said that the founding fathers were men you admired.
How can you then say that this country was not founded on "right wing" principles, when the FF owned slaves.
Doesnt that make them evil right wingers?

Now you are saying that all conservatives identify with the Nazi party.
I dont know how you think that.
There was nothing in the article that even hinted at anybody being a repub, conservative, or anything else.
It mentioned 1 man, and 1 group, and you somehow equate to mean ALL conservatives.

The sad part is that you get angry when anyone says "all liberals" or "all dems" or "all left wingers" are anything.
You fail to see your own hypocrisy and double standard.

The historic figures who showed the advances of their time in many moral actions can not be but also can be compared to the modern right wing attitudes. I admire many historic figures but not in relation to modern morality. I might not admire a slave owner but I could appreciate his relative historic kindness, if he treated them with respect. The right wing choose their bed fellows they are the ones that align themselves to certain political attitudes that on occassions are also expressed by Nazis. Not all right wing views are the same but just like I am constantly reminded that my democratic socialism has communist ethics, so you to must be told you resemble Nazis on occassions.

This is the same man who appears in this thread from ebrown p: http://able2know.org/topic/144249-1

Just think! He's armed . . . with a gun . . . not an intellect.

What a punk! Constantly misquoting me.

A remarkably weak and evasive reply to a factual ans accurate criticism.

Adequate reply considering the distorted post she was replying to. I would have thought bollocks, more appropriate.

Then when I get home from work tonight I will dig up your own words and use them to make my point.
Of course, you then wont be able to deny it, but you will try to anyway.

I guess you read "several" as a synonym for "all."

I think he read this as meaning "all" instead of realizing it referred to the previous post and those specifically wearing Nazy regalia.

I think you are correct.

This 'effect' is nonexistent. It is a fiction designed to justify tax cuts for the rich, but it certainly does not lead to measurable effects.

Cycloptichorn

National socialism was a progressive ideology, and it was considered such at the time. Redefining them as a "right wing" is quite an astounding task of doublethink.
Where to start? Um, how about the nazis were friggin socialists! As in welfare, universal health care, big government spending. Yeah, socialism. You know, the stuff the tea party is protesting against. The nazis were statists, like those who are trying to smear the tea party.
If you exchange "the Jews" for "the rich", the party program of the nazis is practically identical to that of todays left.

Ridiculous idiocy. Why don't you be specific and show us how this is true, instead of using useless assertions?

Cycloptichorn

Both brands of socialism, modern socialism and national socialism, declare a scapegoat group. This scapegoat group allegedly owns a "disproportionate" share of societies wealth due to their unfair tactics and thieving practices. A strong state is required to correct this. The coercive force of the state should be used to expropriate the wealth of that group and distribute it amongst the rest of the population through the state, to create "fairness".
Besides that, both brands of socialism agree about practically all policies. The nazis instated environmental protection laws, animal rights laws, gun control laws, smoking bans. Both disliked Christianity; the nazis broke crosses off churches when they invaded France. Both brands of socialism favor universal health care, public education, state pensions, unemployment benefits, welfare, etc.
Both are collectivist statists. Not to mention the heavy use of propaganda.

Those are all generalities. Why don't you be specific and show both how the Nazi's instituted socialism, and how the modern Democrats are doing the exact same thing?

I think you are falling into the same shallow trap that many right-wingers have, of hearing a few things here and there about the 'Democrats=Socialist=Nazi' line - mostly resurrected by that idiot Jonah Goldberg - and deciding that it was true, without doing much actual scholarship to back it up.

Besides, your comparisons are facile. The Nazi's believed in a strong military, and so do the Republicans, so the Republicans of today are obviously instituting militaristic Nazi policies. Wouldn't you agree?

Cycloptichorn

Read Adolf Hitler's MEIN KAMPF to easily see the parallel between what Hitler advocated and did, and what Obama advocates and does.
http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/index.html
Especially read: