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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
xris
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 01:10 pm
@ican711nm,
Pure rhetoric with no substance or reason to reply...complete propaganda with no relevance to facts. Red and blue wot does it mean to you...little white pills..
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 01:19 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
Pure rhetoric with no substance or reason to reply...complete propaganda with no relevance to facts. ...

………………~~~~~~~~!??!??! ~~~~~~
………………~~~~~~~~
(O|O) ~~~~
………………..~~~~.~~
( ~o~ )
xris
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 01:35 pm
@ican711nm,
See your Doc , you need more little white pills..
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 01:39 pm
Quote:
Drink Your Tea:
How could you not celebrate the spontaneous emergence of a decentralized movement aimed at rolling back big government?

By Matt Kibbe

I can't help but wonder what planet Brink Lindsey has been living on for the last 18 months. Lindsey's harangue against the good men and women who make up the Tea Party movement —utterly dismissive of their important work against an entrenched political establishment—seems disconnected from reality. This massive grassroots revolt against big government is the greatest opportunity that advocates of limited government have seen in generations, yet libertarian intellectuals like Lindsey seem content to sit on the sidelines and nitpick. While the Tea Party builds a whole new infrastructure to house a massive community organized in defense of individual liberty and constitutionally constrained government, Lindsey would rather quibble over the color palette of the wall tiles in the guest bathroom.

His attitude is too typical, I fear. Lindsey views the world from the rarified vantage point of someone perched in a perfectly calibrated, climate-controlled Ivory Tower. From that high up he can't possibly see what is actually happening on the ground.

Casually confusing the terms "conservative," "Republican," and "Tea Party," Lindsey borrows liberally from the left's caricature of knuckle-draggers to knock down one strawman at a time. He's made a hash of the whole thing, but I'll just make a few observations from the vantage point of someone who, as part of FreedomWorks, has been working with the Tea Party movement from its inception.

Lindsey grants some value in our opposition to government-run health care, allowing that "at least some conservatives haven't forgotten their signature move" as the Loyal Opposition to the Democrats' wild expansion of government. But where was he when this movement was being born out of principled disgust with Republican spending, with the corruption of earmarks as a source of campaign financing, and most notably in opposition to the TARP bailout? What is now called the Tea Party was forged during the first bailout, when angry citizens actually killed the first TARP proposal on the House floor by standing up and pushing back against a Republican president. We all could have used more help then, before the bill became law, opposing the most outrageous expansion of government power in my lifetime. That genie's not going back in the bottle. When it mattered most, many think tank intellectuals were scarcely seen or heard from.

Lindsey says that true libertarianism is far more "cosmopolitan" than the rabble-rousers he sees on the streets. That sounds more than a bit like a certain president I could name, a guy who wants America to be more like Europe. Lindsey even ridicules those of us who venerate "the timeless wisdom of America's founding principles." I for one hope we maintain our difference from Europe in continuing to live by the radical principles of individual rights and limits on collective government power. Is that trite? If so, I got my triteness from a guy named Howard Roark: "Our country, the noblest country in the history of men, was based on the principle of individualism, the principle of man's ‘inalienable rights.' It was a country where a man was free to seek his own happiness, to gain and produce, not to give up and renounce; to prosper, not to starve; to achieve, not to plunder; to hold as his highest possession a sense of his personal value, and as his highest virtue his self-respect."

Call me provincial, but I always loved that speech. I suppose fictional characters are not serious intellectual leaders, though.

But who is, exactly? Practicing conservatism in the worst sense of the term, Lindsey pines for the days prior to the Internet and talk radio when network oligarchs and taxpayer-funded television forced the right to rely on a few "intellectual champions" of "sheer brilliance" who covered for the inelegance of the unwashed masses behind them.

Today, Lindsey worries, serious intellectuals "don't call the shots." The best of the bunch, like his friends Bruce Bartlett and David Frum, have been sacked by the enforcers of "intolerant groupthink." Bartlett, a former Reagan official, is quite popular these days in the White House and on the left because of his vocal support for a value added tax, which he defends on grounds that "the U.S. needs a money machine" to fund the spending requirements of big government. Frum, a former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, was particularly outraged by the recent vanquishing of the "perfectly good" conservative Sen. Robert Bennett (R-Utah) by the Tea Party hordes. Anticipating Bennett's defeat, state GOP delegates, mostly new to the political process, chanted "TARP, TARP, TARP!" from the convention floor. The now--lame duck senator had unapologetically voted for the Wall Street bailout, aggressively defended Senate appropriators' culture of earmarks, and introduced health care reform legislation requiring that all Americans buy government-approved health insurance.

It may be intolerant to say so, but these are all intolerable policy ideas, and the Tea Party movement isn't tolerating them.

Down here on terra firma, things look dramatically different from what Lindsey so dislikes. From my perspective, the Tea Party movement is a beautiful chaos, or as F.A. Hayek would put it, a spontaneous order. Ours is a leaderless, decentralized grassroots movement made up of people who believe in freedom, in the government not spending money it does not have, and in the specialness of our constitutional republic. They have arisen from their couches and kitchen tables and self-organized a potent countervailing force to the cozy collusion of political expediency, big government, and special interests.

One of the virtues of this decentralized world today is that citizens are no longer dependent on old-school institutions such as Congress, television networks, and even think tanks for information and good ideas. Like the Tea Party movement itself, access to information is completely decentralized by infinite sources online. Like the discovery process that determines prices in unfettered markets, these informal networks take advantage of what the philosopher Michael Polanyi called "personal knowledge." Bloggers and citizen activists on the Internet now gather these bits of knowledge and serve as the clearinghouse for the veracity of facts and the salience of good ideas.

Do Tea Partiers read? You bet they do, and with a focus and discipline fitting a peoples' paradigm shift away from big-government conservatism. One woman who marched in D.C. on September 12, 2009, had draped a big white banner, almost as big as she was, over the crowd control barricade. It stated, succinctly: "Read Thomas Sowell." They listen to Glenn Beck and study Saul Alinsky. They also read Rand, Friedman, and Mises. They even read the Constitution of the United States, as timeless as it is, risking the erudite wrath of their cosmopolitan betters.

The Tea Party movement, if sustained, has the potential to take America back from an entrenched establishment of big spenders, political careerists, and rent-seeking corporations. The values that animate us all—lower taxes, less government, and more freedom—is a big philosophical tent set at the very center of American politics.

Brink, you should come on down and join us. You might get your hands dirty, but the good people of the Tea Party could sure use the help.

Matt Kibbe is president of FreedomWorks and co-author, with Dick Armey, of Give Us Liberty: A Tea Party Manifesto, to be published by HarperCollins in August.
xris
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 01:44 pm
@ican711nm,
so much better in blue and red..but then I did not read it..I wonder how many did?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 02:25 pm
@mysteryman,
I hope this little diversion doesnt bother anyone, and if it does to bad.
But as a proud grandparent, and since I cinsider many of you my friends (even you cyclo), may I introduce my grandson Alex to the world.

He was born yesterday (July 12, 2010) and weighed 4 pounds 12 ounces and was 19 inches long.

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt273/mysteryman841/New%20Grandson%20Alex/alexafewminutesold.jpg

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt273/mysteryman841/New%20Grandson%20Alex/Alex15minutesold.jpg

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt273/mysteryman841/New%20Grandson%20Alex/alex1dayold.jpg

You can now all go back to your regularly scheduled arguing.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 02:36 pm
awwwwlll.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 02:57 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
From cyclops post #4281871
Quote:
Judge Napalitano, frequent Fox News contributor and Conservative legal scholar, discusses his belief below that Bush and Cheney should both have been indicted for multiple violations of the law and civil rights of Americans:


Quote:
NADER: What’s the sanction for President Bush and Vice President Cheney? [...]

NAPOLITANO: They should have been indicted. They absolutely should have been indicted for torturing, for spying, for arresting without warrants. I’d like to say they should be indicted for lying but believe it or not, unless you’re under oath, lying is not a crime. At least not an indictable crime. It’s a moral crime.

NADER: So you think George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should even though they’ve left office, they haven’t escaped the criminal laws, they should be indicted and prosecuted?

NAPOLITANO: The evidence in this book and in others, our colleague the great Vincent Bugliosi has amassed an incredible amount of evidence. The purpose of this book was not to amass that evidence but I do discuss it, is overwhelming when you compare it to the level of evidence required for a normal indictment that George W. Bush as President and Dick Cheney as Vice President participated in criminal conspiracies to violate the federal law and the guaranteed civil liberties of hundreds, maybe thousands of human beings.


Well, the DOJ should seek indictments! What is wrong with this DOJ? It has dissmissed a case it won against the racist hate group and some of its members now known as NBPP (National Black Panther Party--even disavowed by the Original Black Panther Party) on election intimidation charges ( http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/06/ex-official-accuses-justice-department-racial-bias-black-panther-case/ ) the details of which are here at: http://article.nationalreview.com/438019/unequal-justice/deroy-murdock. Indeed the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights felt strongly enough against the DOJ action (or lack thereof) that it "...voted on Aug. 7 to send a letter to Justice expanding its own investigation and demanding more complete answers. "We believe the Department's defense of its actions thus far undermines respect for rule of law," its letter stated. It noted "the peculiar logic" of one Justice argument, that defendants' failure to show up in court was a reason for dismissing the case: "Such an argument sends a perverse message to wrongdoers—that attempts at voter suppression will be tolerated so long as the persons who engage in them are careful not to appear in court to answer the government's complaint." " ( http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574361071968458430.html ) Now, we find another case the DOJ shys away from which supposedly involves lying, torture, and the suspension of habeus corpus. What are they thinking?

Did the, well respected judge, offer any advice on how the shrub and Cheney might defend their executive actions? Did Nader ask? For a precedent that might hold legal water see Okie's observation here: http://able2know.org/topic/113196-1009#post-4282050 and Lincoln's suspension (of Habeus Corpus) here: http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=425

I always like the judge's interviews. It would be great to hear the whole interview or see the transcript of it. Do you have a link?

JM
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 03:37 pm
@mysteryman,
congrats MM.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 03:56 pm
@mysteryman,
Congrats, MM. Don't indoctrinate him with politics until he's at least 30 Laughing
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 04:02 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Why did you change the subject to something else completely? What you wrote about the New Black Panther Party, while perhaps exciting to you, wasn't relevant to the topic.

I don't believe that either FDR's actions, nor Lincolns, justify breaking of the law by current presidents - and what more, lying about it. One would think that if the Bush admin had nothing to hide in this area, they would have been much more straight-up about their actions.

Cycloptichorn
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 05:43 pm
@mysteryman,
Hey MM in that first photo, how did you get him to stand up against that wall with the RED, White, and Blue stripes? Wink

JM
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 08:27 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
We all know that some of the Founding Fathers had no need to pay for sex as they were slave owners.
mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 09:14 pm
@plainoldme,
Then you are admitting that they were all "right wing", because you have said that only the right believed in or owned slaves.
And if they were all "right wing", how do you match that to the principles they established in the Constitution and Bill of Rights?
Because you have said that the "right wing" doesnt believe in the Constitution.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 09:19 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Why did you change the subject to something else completely? What you wrote about the New Black Panther Party, while perhaps exciting to you, wasn't relevant to the topic.

I don't believe that either FDR's actions, nor Lincolns, justify breaking of the law by current presidents - and what more, lying about it. One would think that if the Bush admin had nothing to hide in this area, they would have been much more straight-up about their actions.

Cycloptichorn

James Morrison did not change the subject. He merely placed your point into context, that context including other issues both in history and currently with the current DOJ. The sad truth is the current DOJ is a complete flop and is failing to do its job, as exemplified by not prosecuting those people that were actively threatening voters. If there is anything that should be prosecuted, that should have been, to the full extent of the law.

And in regard to Bush, nothing, absolutely nothing ever approached the seriousness of what other presidents have done, and FDR's actions were a good example. In order to have a reasonable conversation about presidential powers and actions, it needs some historical context, and you guys on the left simply are not willing to discuss the subject in that manner, in a reasonable manner, because of your hatred for Bush has blinded you to reason.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 03:06 am
@mysteryman,
You mean that bill that only referred to white men and was completely useless if you were red yellow or black?.Just club membership rules.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 03:15 am
@okie,
I don't hate Bushy baby I laugh at him and recognise his inability demonstrated the republicans ignorance on so many subjects. Him and our so called socialist leader led us into so many crap situations without thought or concern and yet you still admire him. I think the reality is you just have to, what else could you do. But please just think what he did before you decry Obama's efforts.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 08:49 am
@djjd62,
I suspect your wit flew over some heads.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 10:57 am
Ican, please stop spamming the threads with repetitions of the same post.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2010 10:57 am
i must have missed all the stories of mass murder since obabma took office, gee, you'd think they'd put that kind if stuff in the papers Shocked

pay your taxes you tightwad Wink

love less corruption of government, vote for us we won't eliminate corruption but you'll get less Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
 

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