Born-Again Christians: Most annoying people on the planet?

Ticomaya wrote:

I think you may be mislabeling as arrogance what is simply an intense desire to share the Gospel of Christ with others.

The idea that someone needs to alter their life by itself is not arrogant. However the idea that someone else needs to alter their life to your standard of morality etc is pure arrogance.

Many Christians may think that an "intense desire to share" makes for a forgiveable trespass, but it's not.

T
K
O

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Haven't read Deist yet.

Need to correct...

A friend of my ex's family (both my ex and his brother liked her and her sister as teens) - well that person's family is still mourning her move to the Children of God cult probably 40 years on. The parents may be dead by now, as I haven't asked lately and it's been a long time.

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Diest TKO wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
I think you may be mislabeling as arrogance what is simply an intense desire to share the Gospel of Christ with others.

The idea that someone needs to alter their life by itself is not arrogant. However the idea that someone else needs to alter their life to your standard of morality etc is pure arrogance.

Many Christians may think that an "intense desire to share" makes for a forgiveable trespass, but it's not.

T
K
O

Not to "your standard of morality" ... to God's standard. And there's the trick: You don't believe in God, so you attribute this as merely the nonsensical arrogance of the Christian.

I don't mean, again, to imply there are no arrogant Christians. Merely to articulate there may be a misunderstanding of intentions by persons such as yourself who don't believe there is a higher power involved in the process.

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Ticomaya wrote:

I don't mean, again, to imply there are no arrogant Christians. Merely to articulate there may be a misunderstanding of intentions by persons such as yourself who don't believe there is a higher power involved in the process.

Having good motives does not make trespass allowable. Good is also in they eye of the beholder, Eco terrorists and abortion terrorists are sure that they are trying to save the planet and human life respectively, this does not make their acts legal or right.

I can understand a Christian wanting to share their joy of finding something, of wanting others to enjoy what they enjoy, but when others say they are not interested keeping on pushing is trespassing.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I think you may be mislabeling as arrogance what is simply an intense desire to share the Gospel of Christ with others.

The idea that someone needs to alter their life by itself is not arrogant. However the idea that someone else needs to alter their life to your standard of morality etc is pure arrogance.

Many Christians may think that an "intense desire to share" makes for a forgiveable trespass, but it's not.

T
K
O

Not to "your standard of morality" ... to God's standard. And there's the trick: You don't believe in God, so you attribute this as merely the nonsensical arrogance of the Christian.

I don't mean, again, to imply there are no arrogant Christians. Merely to articulate there may be a misunderstanding of intentions by persons such as yourself who don't believe there is a higher power involved in the process.

Say what you like, but saying your choice of moral standards is God's and therefore perfect is arrogant.

I'm not concerned with the intentions of Christians. I think it's disrespectful unless someone specifically asks to learn about Christianity. Even then I think it there are degrees of interest. I may be interested in learning about a part of Christian mythology, but that is a different thing from wanting to know how tobecome a part of it etc.

I think intent is irrelavant. I see it as impulsive behavior which these individuals have been conditioned to believe is socially acceptable.

T
K
O

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Diest wrote:

Quote:

I think intent is irrelavant. I see it as impulsive behavior which these individuals have been conditioned to believe is socially acceptable.

But it's also a test for the believer, Diest, I could be wrong but I think that's what you were referring to when you make the comment about believers asking questions of others. Every once in awhile the faithful have to see just how thin the ice that they are standing on is, they want to make sure that their safety net is in place. And, of course, having a belief is not good at all if it never gets challenged.

Believers ask me questions all the time and not just Christians. Being an old hippie has made me friends with a wide variety of people, I have friends who really believe in spirits, evil and otherwise, friends who meet weekly to discuss Jewish mysticism, a couple of Muslims, devote and not-so-much, one truly bizarre, gentle soul who immerses herself in Numerology and Horoscopes and any number of family who range from actually being a member of the clergy (Brother 1) to being the founder of a church where glossolalia was a twice a week normal state of affairs (Crazy Aunt, now deceased).

After I fired God for incompetence and absenteeism, (There's a link somewhere.), lots of them wanted to talk to me about it. Not so much to bring me back, but to see where they were standing. I told them I wasn't afraid to be working without a net. That life was better, less filled with fear, more filled with humanity and kindness and a sense that life was good.

If you are going to be on the high wire, I said, which is where all humans are, it's better to be there without a net below. The idea that this is it, that you only get this one shot, brings about an incredible clarity to life. I don't feel safe, I'm just not afraid.

Joe("Oh", they said, looking down to make sure their net was in place.)Nation

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I have known some very fine people who happen to be Christians. Some I've admired enormously because of their compassion & decency, in line with their Christian values. But none of them had ever "done a number" on me. (Tried to convert me to their beliefs) Nor felt they had to enlighten me (unasked) about the importance of their faith. And why would they? I'd lose all respect for anyone who attempted to do that. If I ever want to be converted I'll ask!

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Spiritual awareness is the most important thing a human can seek. What we do with this awareness is where good and evil come into play.

Christians do not have a monopoly on matters of the soul. Belief that they do is flat world thinking.

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I am not one to stand on street corners shouting "Repent! Be Saved!" Neither do I go around asking people if they know Jesus or not. I do talk about God a lot throughout the day, whether it be relating something God has done for me or just saying Thank you Jesus! Then, if someone wants to discuss it we do. If they say nothing about it, neither do I.

We aren't supposed to go around sounding like we are nuts! Rarely, in my experience, has the shouting "Repent and be saved" attitude garnered anything more than looks of disgust or shock.

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Diest TKO wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I think you may be mislabeling as arrogance what is simply an intense desire to share the Gospel of Christ with others.

The idea that someone needs to alter their life by itself is not arrogant. However the idea that someone else needs to alter their life to your standard of morality etc is pure arrogance.

Many Christians may think that an "intense desire to share" makes for a forgiveable trespass, but it's not.

T
K
O

Not to "your standard of morality" ... to God's standard. And there's the trick: You don't believe in God, so you attribute this as merely the nonsensical arrogance of the Christian.

I don't mean, again, to imply there are no arrogant Christians. Merely to articulate there may be a misunderstanding of intentions by persons such as yourself who don't believe there is a higher power involved in the process.

Say what you like, but saying your choice of moral standards is God's and therefore perfect is arrogant.

I'm not concerned with the intentions of Christians. I think it's disrespectful unless someone specifically asks to learn about Christianity. Even then I think it there are degrees of interest. I may be interested in learning about a part of Christian mythology, but that is a different thing from wanting to know how tobecome a part of it etc.

I think intent is irrelavant. I see it as impulsive behavior which these individuals have been conditioned to believe is socially acceptable.

T
K
O

What is socially acceptable is a thing called 'free speech'.

Other people don't need your permission to speak their mind.

And they don't need your approval of the content , nor your guidance on what is respectful.

If you really believed in the moral relativism you espouse, you'd let them decide these things for themselves without input from you.

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Your freedom of speech re: religion stops at the start of my earshot. Remember that I am also guaranteed "freedom from religion".

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real life wrote:

What is socially acceptable is a thing called 'free speech'.

Other people don't need your permission to speak their mind.

And they don't need your approval of the content , nor your guidance on what is respectful.

If you really believed in the moral relativism you espouse, you'd let them decide these things for themselves without input from you.

There may be something called "free speech", but that doesn't mean a person has to sit and listen to it if they don't want to.

And no, they don't need his approval or guidance, but if respect him at all, they'd stop it when he said he didn't like it. That's just common courtesy.

And I totally disagree with your last comment. If I don't like to hear smut, I have a right to ask someone not to talk that way around me. If I don't want to hear preaching, I can likewise ask them to refrain from it around me. If we can't agree, one of us will inevitably leave the room.

Free speech doesn't give a body the right to offend someone else, and if anyone finds that topic offensive, the offender should shut up, again, just as a matter of courtesy.

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I wonder how god-believers would react if they were to pull up to a red light and have some stranger approach them with atheist propaganda.
I get accosted like this by Christians all the time. They act surprised if I give them any attitude. (What do they expect?)

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That's what I was alluding to before echi.

Not atheist propoganda, but anything someone feels strongly about.

What if a person DID feel very strongly about, as I used as an example, S&M?

They wouldn't have to use profanity or pictures, but what if they were considered themselves so lucky to have found S&M, that it saved their life, made it worthwhile, brought them more happiness they could ever have believed possible? And they felt so wonderful and good about it, they had every faith that people in general, the world at large, would be a better place, if everyone practiced S&M, and used every opportunity to tell others how they felt?

What if some, or most, or even just a few of the people he was telling told him they did not believe as he did, thought he shouldn't be "pushing" his beliefs on them, and politely told him they don't want to continue this conversation?

Yet, he continues, sure if you were open to this, their life could not possibly get better.

But of course, no one any of us knows would ever to that, even though it happens to us at least once in a while.

It's as simple as replacing the words S&M with "vegetarian" "Jesus" "sports fanatic", "God" or "heavy metal music lover"

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I had a friend who would answer the door naked, on all fours, barking. Word gets around about which doors not to knock on.

There was a time in Oz when the JW's took to bringing their children on their door knockings, so as to avoid the usual blunt Australian response to their refusal to leave after a polite request (F*** OFF!). Yet another creative friend's response was to lean conspiratorially into the JW and ask 'How much for the little boy?'

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farmerman wrote:

Your freedom of speech re: religion stops at the start of my earshot. Remember that I am also guaranteed "freedom from religion".

You are 'guaranteed' no such thing.

Nowhere in law or in the Constitution does it limit my freedom of speech in the manner you describe.

Stick to rocks, fm.

You apparently know nothing of law, history or the concept of freedom as embodied in the Constitution.

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hingehead wrote:

Yet another creative friend's response was to lean conspiratorially into the JW and ask 'How much for the little boy?'

OH! That is good! Shocked

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Re: Born-Again Christians: Most annoying people on the plane

kickycan wrote:

I'm thinking of sending my aunt a link to the Sam Harris book, "The End of Faith" along with a note that says, "I'll read the book you sent me as soon as you finish this one."

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Re: Born-Again Christians: Most annoying people on the plane

Joeblow wrote:

kickycan wrote:

I'm thinking of sending my aunt a link to the Sam Harris book, "The End of Faith" along with a note that says, "I'll read the book you sent me as soon as you finish this one."

She may take you up on that

I would. I could use a good laugh, but I'd never pay for Harris' book.

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Born-Again Christians: Most annoying people on the planet?

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