All one has to do when someone is talking about Jesus is walk away or ask them to stop. They should stop and I know that doesn't always happen. It's not that anyone is trying to decide what is best for anyone, not in my case anyway, it's just a matter of me wanting to share what I have found in the love of Christ.
dlowan wrote:Arella Mae wrote:Oh you said they're the ones that want to have the conversation. Guess I misunderstood. Seek the guidance of a non-believer? Why would we do that? Not trying to be offensive, but seriously, why?
I can understand where you were coming from if you were young.
Indeed, and why would a non-believer seek the guidance of a born again?
Happens all the time, dlowan.
Many Christians that I know could tell you the same thing. Friends, family members, co-workers often seek out people that they know are Christians when they need guidance or assistance or comfort.
Deny it if you wish.
Maybe you'd never.
But many others do.
dagmaraka wrote:AM, with all due respect, it does tend to be offensive if someone thinks they know whats best for someone else.
So, why are you often found telling others what they should do or how they should think? Why don't you simply keep your mouth shut? You know, practice what you preach?
real life wrote:dagmaraka wrote:AM, with all due respect, it does tend to be offensive if someone thinks they know whats best for someone else.
So, why are you often found telling others what they should do or how they should think? Why don't you simply keep your mouth shut? You know, practice what you preach?
Civility and common decency get rubbed out again...yippee
Could you explain that further, hawkeye?
real life wrote:dlowan wrote:Arella Mae wrote:Oh you said they're the ones that want to have the conversation. Guess I misunderstood. Seek the guidance of a non-believer? Why would we do that? Not trying to be offensive, but seriously, why?
I can understand where you were coming from if you were young.
Indeed, and why would a non-believer seek the guidance of a born again?
Happens all the time, dlowan.
Many Christians that I know could tell you the same thing. Friends, family members, co-workers often seek out people that they know are Christians when they need guidance or assistance or comfort.
Deny it if you wish.
Maybe you'd never.
But many others do.
Lol...but in your arrogance you seriously believe born-agains seek no advice from non-believers.
You people........pathetic.
dlowan wrote:Lol...but in your arrogance you seriously believe born-agains seek no advice from non-believers.
That's not what was said. Is that honestly how you read it? The issue was whether a born-again sought "guidance" from non-believers. MA wondered why one would do that.
Advice? Sure. Non-believers can help you do your taxes, or recommend a good restaurant, etc. But "guidance" to help a Christian in a desperate attempt to "escape" Christianity? That's a bizarre thought.
Quote:You people........pathetic.
I really try to be nice on these S&R threads, but you make it difficult, rabbit.
ossobuco wrote:Could you explain that further, hawkeye?
I suppose....real life is telling dagmaraka to shut up because she supposedly is a hippocrate if she participates in the market place of ideas, this being because she thinks that know-it-alls butting into other's lives is offensive. Having something to say at able2know has no relationship to butting into other people's lives. All who enter the intellectual arena do so willingly and agree to have their views poked, prodded and questioned by the rest. It is not possible to butt into someone else's life here, any who speak invite others to point out the flaws in thinking, to question the statements made. Real life knows this unless they are an idiot, so I take the comment as rudeness.
Considering that I also feel that butting into others lives is rude, and I also am mouthy around here, I take umbrage to Real Life's comment as if it were directed to me as well.
Arella Mae wrote:All one has to do when someone is talking about Jesus is walk away or ask them to stop. They should stop and I know that doesn't always happen. It's not that anyone is trying to decide what is best for anyone, not in my case anyway, it's just a matter of me wanting to share what I have found in the love of Christ.
Hmm... I'm going to disagree. I don't think that the Christian shoudl say anything without being asked specifically.
It makes people feel uncomfortable to have someone around who could at any moment make unsolicited advance.
Would you give the same advice to a person who wants to kiss someone. Go for it. If they don't want it, they will tell you and then you shoudl stop. No matter what, after that it's uncomfortable.
T
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That helps, thanks.
I see the question as related to Kicky going to visit his family and finding a barrage, which, if not precisely on this thread, he's talked about on one or two others with some perplexity, which I can imagine, though from a background of somewhat different if evocative stuff, mostly from the silent Irish myself.
I guess I frame this kind of thing as related to simple courtesy - and there is even courtesy here on a2k, a floating ambience that most breach at some point, but most long timers try not to breach routinely, as being non courteous is on the face of it sort of weak. Courteous, of course, as described by all of us, might not fit with Webster. Civil might be a better word.
So, re pushing past when someone says no, I don't want to hear it ... basically, it is not civil.
Ticomaya wrote:dlowan wrote:Lol...but in your arrogance you seriously believe born-agains seek no advice from non-believers.
That's not what was said. Is that honestly how you read it? The issue was whether a born-again sought "guidance" from non-believers. MA wondered why one would do that.
Advice? Sure. Non-believers can help you do your taxes, or recommend a good restaurant, etc. But "guidance" to help a Christian in a desperate attempt to "escape" Christianity? That's a bizarre thought.
Quote:You people........pathetic.
I really try to be nice on these S&R threads, but you make it difficult, rabbit.
What the hell is the difference between "guidance" and advice, pray tell.
When I see born again parents with traumatized kids, for instance, what do they want from this miserable non-believer?
real life - at least i don't tell anyone to "keep their mouth shut" and i try not to be otherwise rude to people, even if i disagree with them.
AM, it is not just the action that i am talking about. the action of talking to someone about faith because you (or whoever) believes that's what's best for them. It's the thought itself that i find problematic - the thought that the person with faith can 'save' others if only s/he can get the to see the 'right way'. Like i said - i don't doubt the best intentions, just telling you what it looks like from the other side of the fence (being an atheist myself). And again, good intentions can have real bad consequences... like Kicky here being all frustrated with his family which is trying to 'save' him.
i feel just as strongly about my 'right way' as any deeply religious Christian feels about their 'right way'... so, like Diest, I prefer if i don't have to 'stop' anyone. Faith is a private matter, I wouldn't discuss love with just anyone either.
Again, this is not about you at all, just theorizin' about what's been hitherto put down.
No....YOu say.
What the hell do you think the fundies are saying that non-believers come to them for? What "guidance" are born agains giving? Advice on some interpretation of god's will? Seriously? So what "guidance" do you think they think THEY can give that differs from any other guidance people might ask for?
How would this differ from serious therapy, for instance, from a non-believer? You think therapy is "advice"????
What crap.
You have the arrogance to think only christians can give "guidance"?
ossobuco wrote:Courteous, of course, as described by all of us, might not fit with Webster. Civil might be a better word.
So, re pushing past when someone says no, I don't want to hear it ... basically, it is not civil.
I wanted to add, going on past when someone says no can be taken as assaultive. I don't know about legalities, re verbal abuse (physical being another bag of worms), et al. Just speaking of ordinary behavior.
Not that Kicky's aunt can be labelled assaultive. Damn, I wish I knew how to spell that. Just that that can be the effect.
ossobuco wrote:ossobuco wrote:Courteous, of course, as described by all of us, might not fit with Webster. Civil might be a better word.
So, re pushing past when someone says no, I don't want to hear it ... basically, it is not civil.
I wanted to add, going on past when someone says no can be taken as assaultive. I don't know about legalities, re verbal abuse (physical being another bag of worms), et al. Just speaking of ordinary behavior.
Not that Kicky's aunt can be labelled assaultive. Damn, I wish I knew how to spell that. Just that can be the effect.
It would be overly broad, I agree, to call it "assaultive".....but arrogant, crass, socially incompetent, disrespectful, un-boundaried etc would all fit.
I think we see in the last few exchanges here what the mind-set is, though....she thinks she has something superior and unmatched, that she must push onto those around her who do not yet drink from the chalice of life....something she has which nobody who does not believe as she does can possibly have.
dlowan wrote:
No....YOu say.
What the hell do you think the fundies are saying that non-believers come to them for? What "guidance" are born agains giving? Advice on some interpretation of god's will? Seriously? So what "guidance" do you think they think THEY can give that differs from any other guidance people might ask for?
How would this differ from serious therapy, for instance, from a non-believer? You think therapy is "advice"????
What crap.
Your statement to RL was: "
in your arrogance you seriously believe born-agains seek no advice from non-believers."
Then you said: "
What the hell is the difference between "guidance" and advice, pray tell."
And finally: "
You think therapy is "advice"????"
You're flipping back and forth between advice and guidance, in a plainly desperate attempt to denigrate Christians. I know you have a serious bee in your bonnet about this, but you are being obtuse here, and intentionally ignoring the context of the discussion.
You added while I was responding ...
dlowan wrote:You have the arrogance to think only christians can give "guidance"?
No, but I suspect you have the arrogance to think only "guidance counselors" can.
dlowan wrote:I think we see in the last few exchanges here what the mind-set is, though....she thinks she has something superior and unmatched, that she must push onto those around her who do not yet drink from the chalice of life....something she has which nobody who does not believe as she does can possibly have.
I think you may be mislabeling as arrogance what is simply an intense desire to share the Gospel of Christ with others. (Although I won't try to read the minds of others or claim to know their intentions, as you do.) You won't find me pushing at all, but if I share it, it's not because I think Christians are superior, and it's not done out of a spirit of arrogance.
I am curious what the genesis of your deep anger towards Christianity is.
But.... Kicky knows his aunt is prone to enthusiasms, a natural cult victim, having gone there before in a serious way.
So, perhaps this brings us to the more common warding off of relatives selling Amway, and so on, or, to take it out of the cult sphere, a major enthusiasm for heritage vegetables. Uh, ok, a penchant for 1950's cars.
Well, pick your enthusiasm.
(I do get it that the things I just mentioned don't involve eternal life.)
I see it as a courtesy monitor awack.
Actually, I forgive the aunt from here (not that anyone asked), she is probably just trying to get along.
I've a friend of my ex whose family is still mourning her move to the Children of God cult probably 40 years on. Well, the parents may be dead by now, as I haven't asked lately and it's been a long time.
