1
   

The Media Creation that is Obama

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:27 am
I am not speaking for other voters. I am simply stating my perception of what voters know about him, which is precious little. I have asked several people what they knew about him, and none could tell me hardly anything at all, actually nothing, except he was running against Clinton, and he seemed to be a nice guy, and they don't want another Clinton. These are Democrats, some of them, and some Republicans.

Okay, on immigration last night, what does he specifically propose to do, except listen to people and do something, but what is it? I heard him say for border policy, we should listen to people along the border and he criticized Bush for not doing this. What he said of course was nothing but pandering to certain voters in Texas, but what he never stated a specific policy that I heard. If you heard one, please tell us. I will need to take off so don't expect a response soon. I will check in later.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:40 am
okie wrote:

Okay, on immigration last night, what does he specifically propose to do, except listen to people and do something, but what is it? I heard him say for border policy, we should listen to people along the border and he criticized Bush for not doing this. What he said of course was nothing but pandering to certain voters in Texas, but what he never stated a specific policy that I heard. If you heard one, please tell us. I will need to take off so don't expect a response soon. I will check in later.


http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/

Key points:
Quote:
Barack Obama's Plan
Create Secure Borders

Obama wants to preserve the integrity of our borders. He supports additional personnel, infrastructure and technology on the border and at our ports of entry.
Improve Our Immigration System

Obama believes we must fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.
Remove Incentives to Enter Illegally

Obama will remove incentives to enter the country illegally by cracking down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.
Bring People Out of the Shadows

Obama supports a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.
Work with Mexico

Obama believes we need to do more to promote economic development in Mexico to decrease illegal immigration.


There's a pdf on that page with the whole plan that you can look at that has more details.
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:52 am
okie wrote:
I am not speaking for other voters. I am simply stating my perception of what voters know about him, which is precious little. I have asked several people what they knew about him, and none could tell me hardly anything at all, actually nothing, except he was running against Clinton, and he seemed to be a nice guy, and they don't want another Clinton. These are Democrats, some of them, and some Republicans.

Okay, on immigration last night, what does he specifically propose to do, except listen to people and do something, but what is it? I heard him say for border policy, we should listen to people along the border and he criticized Bush for not doing this. What he said of course was nothing but pandering to certain voters in Texas, but what he never stated a specific policy that I heard. If you heard one, please tell us. I will need to take off so don't expect a response soon. I will check in later.


Name specific policies McCain or Hillary have articulated in a debate or in a campaign speech this late in the primaries. Specificity, unfortunately, is not a succesful rhetorical strategy at this point in the game. Remember the Bush/Kerry debates? How Kerry was criticized for using a full thirty seconds to answer a question, whereas Bush prevailed for saying "freedom" and "evildoers" fifteen times per sentence?

Barack is for allocating money to improve the technology of border patrols over an unimitigated "fencing" strategy. He introduced the Citizen Promotion Act. But do you really excpect him to, in preparation for debates, script a bill that encompasses every aspect of immigration, then give a Power Point presentation on air?

It's pretty arrogant and condescending to assume that voters aren't educating themselves. And again, please try to pay closer attention to context: what is a campagin strategy vs. what a candidate specfically proposes and has done to support those ideas in the past.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 12:49 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
There's a pdf on that page with the whole plan that you can look at that has more details.


That's just too much damn trouble, FreeDuck. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 03:48 pm
Forget it Okie. All these people know is that he is the second coming of Christ. He dosent have to be specific. All he has to do is parrot the words change, change and they fall to their knees and worship him. I have been to forams that are not Obama supporters, unlike these people and find he docent deal in specifics. Like Bush change is the magic word.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 04:01 pm
this morning on the diane Reams show one of the pundits referred to "We educated class support Obama." Two words. elitisit c**t.

I watched the debate today and Obama is likable enough and seems a serious guy. It's his elitist wanna be supporters that I really can't stomach.

Hillary btw, brought down the house with her closing remark. It was the highlight of the debate and of course was either glossed over or reported as a sign that Hillary has conceded the election. :roll
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 04:09 pm
So which is it? Are we educated and elitist or ignorant and emotional?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 05:22 pm
how about just a pain in the ass ? Laughing
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 05:28 pm
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 09:51 pm
Gargamel wrote:
okie wrote:
I am not speaking for other voters. I am simply stating my perception of what voters know about him, which is precious little. I have asked several people what they knew about him, and none could tell me hardly anything at all, actually nothing, except he was running against Clinton, and he seemed to be a nice guy, and they don't want another Clinton. These are Democrats, some of them, and some Republicans.

Okay, on immigration last night, what does he specifically propose to do, except listen to people and do something, but what is it? I heard him say for border policy, we should listen to people along the border and he criticized Bush for not doing this. What he said of course was nothing but pandering to certain voters in Texas, but what he never stated a specific policy that I heard. If you heard one, please tell us. I will need to take off so don't expect a response soon. I will check in later.


Name specific policies McCain or Hillary have articulated in a debate or in a campaign speech this late in the primaries. Specificity, unfortunately, is not a succesful rhetorical strategy at this point in the game. Remember the Bush/Kerry debates? How Kerry was criticized for using a full thirty seconds to answer a question, whereas Bush prevailed for saying "freedom" and "evildoers" fifteen times per sentence?

It is a problem, and that is why I haven't supported McCain, Clinton, or Obama, all of them have given conflicting messages in regard to policy, in an effort to not alienate voters. Sorry, that isn't good enough.

Quote:
Barack is for allocating money to improve the technology of border patrols over an unimitigated "fencing" strategy. He introduced the Citizen Promotion Act. But do you really excpect him to, in preparation for debates, script a bill that encompasses every aspect of immigration, then give a Power Point presentation on air?
No bills are required, but clearly stating proposed policies instead of conflicting messages would be nice.

Quote:
It's pretty arrogant and condescending to assume that voters aren't educating themselves. And again, please try to pay closer attention to context: what is a campagin strategy vs. what a candidate specfically proposes and has done to support those ideas in the past.
Arrogant and condescending, nonsense, it is reality and you know it. I am paying attention and that is why I point out the obvious.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 09:54 pm
rabel22 wrote:
Forget it Okie. All these people know is that he is the second coming of Christ. He dosent have to be specific. All he has to do is parrot the words change, change and they fall to their knees and worship him. I have been to forams that are not Obama supporters, unlike these people and find he docent deal in specifics. Like Bush change is the magic word.

You said it in more eloquent words that I have, but yes, you point out the obvious problem. You misspelled a few words, but I think most people can figure out what they were supposed to be.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 11:14 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/21/AR2008022102826_pf.html



There's the Beef

By Steven Pearlstein
Friday, February 22, 2008; D01



During the course of our endless presidential campaigns, lots of silly things are said by the candidates and the press. But few are more ridiculous than the idea that Barack Obama is just an empty suit.

We're talking here about a former president of the Harvard Law Review. Have you ever met the people who get into Harvard Law School? You might not choose them as friends or lovers or godparents to your children, but -- trust me on this -- there aren't many lightweights there. And Obama was chosen by all the other overachievers as top dog. Compared with the current leader of the free world, this guy is Albert Einstein.

Given his youth and relatively short time in government, it's fair to ask if Obama has the wisdom and experience to be president. But it's quite another to suggest that he has no vision, no program, no specifics.

Let's begin with the fact that he has written two books (all by himself, unlike a certain other candidate). The first offers a compelling personal narrative that, for some reason, is dismissed as puffery by a presumptive Republican nominee who first ran for office on the strength of his compelling personal narrative. The second book is a thoroughly readable, intelligent and well-reasoned discourse on politics and policy that offers a fresh perspective on a wide range of issues.

Obama has participated in 18 televised presidential debates in which he has managed to hold his own not only with Hillary the Wonkette, but also with the Senate's leading light on foreign affairs, a former United Nations ambassador and a former vice presidential candidate who was a skilled trial lawyer. I watched most of the debates, and while I didn't agree with everything he said, I don't recall thinking that Obama was in over his head.

Now that Obama is sprinting toward the finish line in the Democratic marathon, his opponents are suddenly asking, "Where's the beef?"

If it's beef you like, all you have to do is go to http://barackobama.com, where you will find a refrigerator case packed with prime policy meat. That may come as something of a surprise to you, considering how utterly lacking in substance the reporting and analysis has been over the last year. But it's all there -- as much as or more than is offered by other candidates and certainly as much as any voter would require.

There is, for example, the 11-page, single-spaced energy plan that features a cap-and-trade system that would require businesses to purchase credits for 100 percent of their carbon emissions, along with a requirement that all electric companies produce a quarter of their juice from renewable resources. Obama would also invest $15 billion annually -- a big chunk of change, even by federal standards -- in biofuels and other forms of clean energy. He wants to change the way electricity rates are set to give utilities more incentives to save power rather than produce it.

Those aren't uniquely Obama's ideas -- in one form or another, they've been part of the Democratic congressional agenda for years. And considering how fiercely they are opposed by industry and free-market Republicans, they aren't going to produce the kind of across-the-aisle compromise that Obama promises to deliver. But it's hardly like there's nothing there.

Or perhaps you'd like to curl up with a copy of Obama's 15-page, single-spaced health-care plan, including 65 footnotes. You'll find a cogent analysis of what ails the health-care system, along with the best thinking of Democratic health-care reformers on how to fix it: disease management, computerized medical records, radical reforms of the insurance market, tax subsidies for low-income families and federal reinsurance for catastrophic illness. There's even a requirement that businesses either offer health insurance to their workers or pay into a universal health-care fund.

The plan would be expensive and involve a major federal intrusion into the marketplace, and there is a legitimate question as to whether the plan would work better if everyone were required by law to buy health insurance. But by any measure it is a serious plan that would win the support not only of labor but also of major parts of the business community, including hospitals and health insurers.

Finally, there's the 40-plus-page economic agenda that outlines Obama's proposals for avoiding a recession, helping homeowners avoid foreclosure, restoring the rights of workers to form unions, improving public education, combating poverty and shifting the tax burden from the middle class to the upper class.

Once again, Obama has borrowed liberally from the standard Democratic policy playbook, adding a few twists of his own. He's willing to gently challenge the teachers' unions on merit pay, the trial lawyers on medical malpractice and liberals on raising Social Security taxes rather than pretending there's no problem with the retirement program. But this is hardly the kind of challenge to Democratic interest-group politics that Obama's "change" rhetoric suggests.

Particularly disappointing is his willingness to parrot the labor movement mantra about labor and environmental standards, which is really nothing more than protectionist code. And there's no way Obama can do all that he proposes and get anywhere close to balancing the federal budget.

But such shortcomings are hardly unusual for a political campaign; the Clinton economic program is no better. And as we're all about to find out, it's far better than the thin gruel offered so far by John McCain, who, God help us, plans to bone up on economics by reading Alan Greenspan.

McCain's economic program consists of extending the Bush tax cuts, cutting corporate tax rates and banning taxes on the Internet and cellphones. His "comprehensive" health-care reform program consists of two pages of platitudes with no specifics and no way to pay for itself. And while he calls for "tough choices" in reining in entitlement spending, he still hasn't found one he's willing to share with us.

Barack Obama isn't a saint. He's not a savior. But in substance as well as style, he's the most impressive presidential candidate to come along in quite a while.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 02:32 am
"Those aren't uniquely Obama's ideas -- in one form or another, they've been part of the Democratic congressional agenda for years. And considering how fiercely they are opposed by industry and free-market Republicans, they aren't going to produce the kind of across-the-aisle compromise that Obama promises to deliver. But it's hardly like there's nothing there. "

Sounds like an empty suit to me. As the above says, there is something there alright, but they aren't new and they aren't uniquely Obama's ideas, they are the same old tired ideas borrowed from the Democrat liberal playbook. Nothing new. This is what people are talking about when they compare the so called beef with the mantra, "change," that we get so tired of hearing. Hogwash, butrfly. Read your own posted article, which attempts to make your case, but it is pretty weak when you actually read it.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 02:39 am
FreeDuck wrote:
okie wrote:

Okay, on immigration last night, what does he specifically propose to do, except listen to people and do something, but what is it? I heard him say for border policy, we should listen to people along the border and he criticized Bush for not doing this. What he said of course was nothing but pandering to certain voters in Texas, but what he never stated a specific policy that I heard. If you heard one, please tell us. I will need to take off so don't expect a response soon. I will check in later.


http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/

Key points:
Quote:
Barack Obama's Plan
Create Secure Borders

Obama wants to preserve the integrity of our borders. He supports additional personnel, infrastructure and technology on the border and at our ports of entry.
Improve Our Immigration System

Obama believes we must fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.
Remove Incentives to Enter Illegally

Obama will remove incentives to enter the country illegally by cracking down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.
Bring People Out of the Shadows

Obama supports a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.
Work with Mexico

Obama believes we need to do more to promote economic development in Mexico to decrease illegal immigration.


There's a pdf on that page with the whole plan that you can look at that has more details.


What did Obama do to stem the flux of illegal Mexicans to Illinois?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 05:06 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
this morning on the diane Reams show one of the pundits referred to "We educated class support Obama." Two words. elitisit c**t.

I watched the debate today and Obama is likable enough and seems a serious guy. It's his elitist wanna be supporters that I really can't stomach.

Hillary btw, brought down the house with her closing remark. It was the highlight of the debate and of course was either glossed over or reported as a sign that Hillary has conceded the election. :roll


http://www.darleenclick.com/weblog/archives/sour_grapes.jpg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 10:30 am
Look at all the informed voters reading the signs in regard to Obama's proposals and beliefs. I am sure all of these people can tell you what Obama has accomplished and what he is proposing to do when he becomes president.
Laughing
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l100/iandavis_06/IMG_0333.jpg
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 10:42 am
snood wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
this morning on the diane Reams show one of the pundits referred to "We educated class support Obama." Two words. elitisit c**t.

I watched the debate today and Obama is likable enough and seems a serious guy. It's his elitist wanna be supporters that I really can't stomach.

Hillary btw, brought down the house with her closing remark. It was the highlight of the debate and of course was either glossed over or reported as a sign that Hillary has conceded the election. :roll


http://www.darleenclick.com/weblog/archives/sour_grapes.jpg


I was interested snood, to hear that in the service you're a pharmacist. I guess that's because only men are allowed in combat positions.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 10:46 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:


I was interested snood, to hear that in the service you're a pharmacist. I guess that's because only men are allowed in combat positions.

My guess is Snood makes you look like a midget, in terms of manhood. Get lost, Bi-Polar.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 11:12 am
okie, I'd offer you the same opportunity.... but you're already lost. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 11:20 am
I apologize for taking the bait from miss snood and miss okie.... I should know better.
0 Replies
 
 

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