Quadraplegic Thrown From Wheelchair by Deputy

JLN- I think that one of the difficulties here, is that there is a tendency to categorize people by race, gender, ethnicity, religion, disability, etc. That, in a way, is a form of racism in and of itself. What the deputy's motivation for what she did is, IMO, besides the point.

Whatever factor such as racism, sexism, etc. really need not be emphasized, although it might very well have been a factor. We will never know what was going through her mind, as she upended the man.

To me, the important thing was that a person abused her authority, and treated another human being inhumanely.

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I wonder if she can even explain it (if she were willing to be honest about it) Confused

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vikorr wrote:

I wonder if she can even explain it (if she were willing to be honest about it)

I think that what bothers me, even more than what she did, was the fact that there were other people around who did nothing. I would suspect that this lack of concern by the other officers would indicate that inhumane treatment was standard operating procedure in that facility.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Amigo- I noticed what you did too, but I kept my mouth shut, until you brought it up. What crossed my mind was what the reaction would have been if the deputies were white, and the man in the wheelchair black. I think that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been on the first plane out to Tampa. So far, I have heard not a peep from either of them.

JLN- What is interesting is that the man in the wheelchair thought in terms of his disability, not race.

If you look at this dispassionately though, what we have is a person in a position of power, using that power in an unconscionable way.

If the cops were white and the disabled guy was black and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson came down whos knows what could happen. Full scale race riot ??

I read all the post. yes, if we can look at this, black and white together, and ask ourselves what all the possibilities are and speak freely even though it is touchy and awkward then we are the people that carry the torch against racism otherwise we will still talk about it only the white people will talk about it in groups of white people and the black people will talk about it in groups of black people.

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Quote:

I think that what bothers me, even more than what she did, was the fact that there were other people around who did nothing. I would suspect that this lack of concern by the other officers would indicate that inhumane treatment was standard operating procedure in that facility.

Most likely.

It could also indicate that :
-the prisoner had been any of : playing up/difficult/unco-operative/abusive, prior to the video starting (it did show only the moments before the tip over, and nothing prior to that)
-unco-operative and difficult prisoners are the norm, and/or
-there may be a culture of non-interference in other deputies work practices, and/or
-it was something they felt needed to be addressed by the boss, not them

That said - let me make it clear what I think - If the deputy said 'stand up' and then did what she did on no provocation at all, then it is truly a low thing to do.

What bothers me as much as the video, is that people here are willing to judge the motives of a person without even hearing the person speak, and are apparently completely willing to believe every word of the story of the paraplegic (ex)prisoner. No one is doubting the actual dumping of him...it is the surrounding 'facts' that judgement should be withheld from. He does have reason to lie - possibilities include : money, fame, anger, indignation, revenge.

Of course, as said previously - the deputy hasn't helped herself, and added credibility to the victims statement, and whatever previously happened or was said, there still appears a case for a trial.

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I found this to be quite disturbing as well. When I saw the story on cnn.com I decided not to click on the video, later that night I had the news on but had the sound off because I was chatting on the phone, then the story came on and I saw the video. It totally disgusted me.

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Phoenix, I agree that categorizing people by race is itself a form of racism--even if you say positive things about their "race." Race does not exist, as I've noted before (even the American Anthropological Association rejects the concept as having no scientific value or empirical reality). I'm not sure the same principle applies to ethnicity (which pertains not only what we call other people but how they define themselves as well), gender and the handicapped.

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vikorr Thats true. So you pick the uncoropritive paraplegic up and search him so he can't sue the $hit out of the state that we have to pay for.

That is what the job of being a cop is. Holding your temper and following procedure so you don't abuse people or waste tax money because, "They were asking for it"or "They just pushed me to far".

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JLNobody wrote:

Phoenix, I agree that categorizing people by race is itself a form of racism--even if you say positive things about their "race." Race does not exist, as I've noted before (even the American Anthropological Association rejects the concept as having no scientific value or empirical reality). I'm not sure the same principle applies to ethnicity (which pertains not only what we call other people but how they define themselves as well), gender and the handicapped.

I think the word is divisionism or something like that that really incompasses everything religion, race, nationalism. I don't know but I would really like to know the exact word.

No I tried to look it up thats not it. But I seen it somewhere. I wish I knew.

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Quote:

vikorr Thats true. So you pick the uncoropritive paraplegic up and search him so he can't sue the $hit out of the state that we have to pay for.

I agree.

Most of my comments have been in relation to the judgemental attitude of people exhibited whilst hearing (and believing) only one side of the story ("Stand Up!"), and hearing virtually none of the contributing circumstances .

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vikorr wrote:

What bothers me as much as the video, is that people here are willing to judge the motives of a person without even hearing the person speak, and are apparently completely willing to believe every word of the story of the paraplegic (ex)prisoner. No one is doubting the actual dumping of him...it is the surrounding 'facts' that judgement should be withheld from. He does have reason to lie - possibilities include : money, fame, anger, indignation, revenge.

For argument's sake, let's assume that the man in the wheelchair had been totally obnoxious, aggressive and belligerent before the incident. Would that have given the deputy the right to dump a quadraplegic on the floor, possibly causing injury?

I would expect that in a facility such as this, there are many people who behave inappropriately. For Pete's sake, it's a jail. I would expect that if staff were trained properly, they would have strategies and procedures in place for dealing with difficult people, without having to resort to bullying. The culture of the facility has to come from the "top down", and staff needs to be called into account when they behave inhumanely.

For many years, I supervised and then directed programs for the severely mentally ill. From time to time we got into situations that were hairy, to say the least. My staff knew that inappropriate behavior by the staff would not be tolerated.

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And they were not tolerated because they were--in addition to other reasons cited here--unnecessary?

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JLNobody wrote:

And they were not tolerated because they were--in addition to other reasons cited here--unnecessary?

JLN- I don't understand what you are driving at. Please explain.

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Phoenix, I have already said that the dumping is enough to send the deputy to trial (in my view - from the little I've seen)...hmmm, though with extenuating circumstances (if there are any) and particular use of force laws (if they exist), there wouldn't be.

As for proper training - one would expect such, but that doesn't mean it's received - some places run on tight budgets.

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You know, The way I see it the sheriff is more handicapped then the quadriplegic. He is one of those everyday heros. Choosing to be a hero out of being a victim of circumstance.

(this is not a word for word quote)

"After about a week or so of sitting by myself I decided I'm not going to take this anymore I thought I could use this to help people that are down pressed by the system by the system. It is not about race or handicap."

He goes on to say,

"it's this negative way way we deal with life and people"

and

"It's not about one deputy or a sheriff or a Govoner it's about this ridiculous, RIDICULOUS downpression of people around the world everyday economically or whatever"

Hes says alot more worth listening to that I didn't put. I wrote some of it down and put it here. I really don't see a handicapped guy. His message is very deep. listening to him makes me think that there are everyday people that are deeply enlightened wating for something to happen that will spring them into action or give them a platform. he says,

"maybe everyone will get involved"

Whatta a man! Brian Sterner, Great job standing up. there are plenty of others with perfectly good legs that stay seated every day.

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Phoenix, I was just expressing the assumption that your low tolerance of "inappropriate" behavior was for aggressive action on the part of your staff that was not necessary for the running of the operation. Bullying is gratuitous coercion. But I also assume there must times when coercive force (e.g. restraint) is justified by necessity.

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JLNobody wrote:

Phoenix, I was just expressing the assumption that your low tolerance of "inappropriate" behavior was for aggressive action on the part of your staff that was not necessary for the running of the operation. Bullying is gratuitous coercion. But I also assume there must times when coercive force (e.g. restraint) is justified by necessity.

Yes, sometimes force was necessary, and appropriate. It was not the fact of the force, but the manner with which the force was administrated. I will give you an example from my work. If a person was decompensating, it would have been rather easy simply to call the police, and have the person taken out in cuffs, in front of the rest of the population.

I believed, that unless it was absolutely necessary, that I would have no one committed involuntarily. I believed that it was a traumatic event for the person involved, and wanted to avoid it at all costs. I made it a point of pride, that unless there was physical danger to me or my staff, that we would attempt to persuade the person to commit himself voluntarily.

Did that take up more staff time than just making a phone call? Sure it did. It was an emotionally draining experience for both me and the staff. Sometimes I would sit for hours with someone to convince him that he was better off in a hospital setting at that point in time.

Am I glad that I spent the time, and trained the staff to do the same? Absolutely. The client walked out, in dignity, grateful to go to a place where he would be helped with his problem.

Did we ever have to commit someone? Sure. Many of the people who suffered from the paranoid type of schizophrenia could never acknowledge that anything was wrong with them. In those cases, we had to wait until that person was deemed "dangerous to himself or others", and then we called the police.

BTW, our program fround that the police had pitifully little expertise in dealing with emotionally disturbed persons. One of the things that we did was hold seminars with the local police to inform them about mental illness, and dealing with people who suffered from it.

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Phoenix, glad to hear about your experiences in the mental health system. If I were mentally ill, the only way I'd want to go voluntarily is if someone took the time to show they actually cared - I mean, what's the point of going to a place for treatment if they don't care?

I would think it likely that police have little expertise dealing with mentally ill people. Sounds good that your department took time to train them, though I would doubt the effectiveness unless it was run on a regular basis. As for other differences - I also doubt that they have the same time to deal with them as as mental health professionals. Nor would they have the same priorities.

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I posted the idea of racism on the utube clip and people dont seem to like it.
They also dont seem to get it.

But.. eh.. oh well.

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Wonderful professional attitude, Phoenix. I also think that it's important to enable people to exercise as much control over their lives as possible. And your effort to persuade individuals that it's in their interest to commit themselves is also an effort to induce them to CHOOSE to be committed. And in so doing exercise, or at least feel that they are exercising, a degree of autonomy.
One of the things I've noticed with people in "rest homes" is a kind of low-grade paranoia wherein they suspect everyone of stealing from them. On those occasions when I could determine that this was not so, I concluded that such efforts were actually efforts to retain a sense of one's autonomy and power. Does that sound possible to you?

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Quadraplegic Thrown From Wheelchair by Deputy

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