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"The Mindless Menace of Violence"

 
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 02:04 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
What is the English vu
of the American Revolution, Rebecca ?

Did u teach that in school ?

R thay still in a state of denial ?


No, but it is very interesting talking about it - talk about differing perceptions. Laughing
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 02:05 pm
Rebecca,
What moved u to return to America ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 02:06 pm
aidan wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
What is the English vu
of the American Revolution, Rebecca ?

Did u teach that in school ?

R thay still in a state of denial ?


No, but it is very interesting talking about it - talk about differing perceptions. Laughing

Which perception is their 's ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 02:14 pm
aidan wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
aidan wrote:
I'm leaving this country, because I've found another place where I enjoy living more.

And a very real part of why I enjoy living more in England is that I do feel on a day to day and minute to minute basis- safer. I feel that there is more of a community spirit and people are more caring of each other - even strangers- and less likely to be violent toward one another.

This is very important to me, as I do enjoy spending time walking outside by myself- every single day.

And so, when I can do that without feeling afraid for my personal safety - I feel more at home and much freer in terms of what is available for me to do and still stay safe.

I don't think David gets it, and I don't know if you'll get it either Roger, because you're both men- but as a woman in this country- there are things I don't allow myself to do (such as walk alone after dark or in certain isolated places) that I DO allow myself to do other places.

When I first moved to England I liked to walk up on the moors- but there was a steep hill to climb to get up there and not many people wanted to go with me. I told someone that I wished I could go up there more often and they asked me why I couldn't. When I explained that I didn't think it was safe to go alone, they said, "Of course it is - as long as you take a mobile - so that if you trip and sprain your ankle you can summon help - nothing will happen to you up there."

They were amazed that I thought another person might come along and hurt me.

I 've never considered this b4,
but I guess that with the English being so cold and aloof all the time,
thay probably have a permanent rape rate of ZERO per year, right ?


David - I told you- that cold and aloof characterization is a myth...at least in my experience.
But I don't know what the rape statistics are for here and there - it'd be interesting to compare.

I'd read the article you posted on-line when I was trying to find facts to back up my perceptions and so I did know (and actually was surprised to learn) that violent crime statistics were higher per capita in the UK - ASIDE FROM MURDER. I'm going to look further into that, because that did surprise me...

But yes, I appreciate that I do love living in England, so I may be inclined to look at it more positively (with rose colored glasses perhaps) although I will say that the feelings I describe about having to feel more self-protective in the US are real. I had that instinct ingrained before I ever set foot in England. It took months for me to loosen up and shake those off because I realized they were in large part unnecessary there.

I appreciate your good wishes for my happiness too. Thank you.

Endy - we should crack open some good ol' Somerset cider when I get back Laughing Then we could both remember the last time we had cider.

The last time I was in Europe ( Amsterdam, a few years ago )
I felt 100% safe ( without thinking about it ) the same as I do here.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 02:16 pm
Family issues.

My mom and dad are getting older. They were living in this huge house that I and my five siblings had grown up in- just the two of them. It had a huge yard. They could no longer take care of it. I felt that I should come back and be a part of helping my brothers and sisters care for my parents.
I also missed them a lot.
But in the past six months, we've helped them sell their house, they've built this really nice one-story kind of attached condominium onto my sister's house, so that she, her husband and her three children are right there to help them, should they need it. My other sister is a nurse- so she helps them with any medical need that arises. My brother is three hours away in Connecticut.

I was feeling that they were kind of not settled - but now I see they are. And as they can't really drive up to see me, and I am more than willing to get on a plane and be the one to come see them- it doesn't really matter if I'm four hours away by car or six hours away by plane. And actually, I have so little vacation here, and I work my ass off to the point that I'm too tired to drive down and spend the weekend with them, the reality is that I'll see them more and have more relaxed visits with them if I live in England and come visit for two or three weeks at a stretch- which is what I did when I lived there before.

Because I guess I could stay here with all my other siblings hovering over my parents- and I certainly would if they needed me to- but they don't need that. And I don't want to regret not doing what I know is best for my own children out of guilt.

They're upset I'm leaving again. But David - I've lived away from my family since I was 18 years old and left NJ to go to NC for college where I didn't know a soul. They all know that's just me.

Guilt...it's killing me- but I got to do it...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 02:33 pm
I've only a limited personal experience of everyday life in the USA.
But since I've been since 45 years now regularily in the UK, I've got quite an idea about life there.

What I missed, I learn via the papers - some dozen subscriptions to US and UK newspaper.

I think that especially during the last couple of years the media (and here the tabloids and the Murdoch press) reported more 'headlining' about crimes than it is done in the USA.
It's (still) not normal there ...

I feel and felt as safe e.g. in deepest Brooklyn as in Soho, alone, just with my photo equipment, or anywhere else.

However, I never would advise a woman to do some of same tours I do and did. And that's not country-related.
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 02:48 pm
aidan wrote:
Family issues.

My mom and dad are getting older. They were living in this huge house that I and my five siblings had grown up in- just the two of them. It had a huge yard. They could no longer take care of it. I felt that I should come back and be a part of helping my brothers and sisters care for my parents.
I also missed them a lot.
But in the past six months, we've helped them sell their house, they've built this really nice one-story kind of attached condominium onto my sister's house, so that she, her husband and her three children are right there to help them, should they need it. My other sister is a nurse- so she helps them with any medical need that arises. My brother is three hours away in Connecticut.

I was feeling that they were kind of not settled - but now I see they are. And as they can't really drive up to see me, and I am more than willing to get on a plane and be the one to come see them- it doesn't really matter if I'm four hours away by car or six hours away by plane. And actually, I have so little vacation here, and I work my ass off to the point that I'm too tired to drive down and spend the weekend with them, the reality is that I'll see them more and have more relaxed visits with them if I live in England and come visit for two or three weeks at a stretch- which is what I did when I lived there before.

Because I guess I could stay here with all my other siblings hovering over my parents- and I certainly would if they needed me to- but they don't need that. And I don't want to regret not doing what I know is best for my own children out of guilt.

They're upset I'm leaving again. But David - I've lived away from my family since I was 18 years old and left NJ to go to NC for college where I didn't know a soul. They all know that's just me.

Guilt...it's killing me- but I got to do it...

U can call them a lot from England, and send them a lot of email,
in addition to visiting, as u described.

If u lemme know when u come to visit,
we can enjoy the delights of some more of NY 's better restaurants;
maybe try the Beef Wellington ( English ) at One If By Land, Two If By C next time.

Maybe u can attend a Mensa dining event b4 u leave.
David
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 04:16 pm
Do the English believe that we treated their troops fairly
from 1775 thru 1783, Rebecca ?
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aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 04:28 pm
Laughing Laughing Laughing I'll find out. I know just the person to ask...
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 04:54 pm
aidan wrote:
Laughing Laughing Laughing I'll find out. I know just the person to ask...

If he says no,
u can rehabilitate your image by reminding him
of the 1st and 2nd World Wars when we saved their bacon.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 07:53 pm
aidan wrote:

I don't think David gets it, and I don't know if you'll get it either Roger, because you're both men- but as a woman in this country- there are things I don't allow myself to do (such as walk alone after dark or in certain isolated places) that I DO allow myself to do other places.


I don't know if I "get it" either. Every time I see the those two words together, I start looking for some deep meaning, kind of like "if you know what I mean".

Anyway, I may not. That is, I've always kind of accepted that there are places that (for woman or man) shouldn't be walked alone in the dark. Or daytime, for that matter. Well, that's why I asked, and I accept that you have a wider and different perspective.

In any case, as David says, if you are happer and/or safer in England, that is the place for you.
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2008 08:30 pm
Please note that I did not say
that she is safer in England.

I am skeptical of that.
David
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aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2008 05:09 am
Thank you Roger- when I say I don't know if you'll "get it" I just mean that you may have either had or have not had experiences that would give you some insight into what I'm feeling- or maybe you'd just automatically relate - like I just seem to "get" some people, writers, music and don't "get" others.

The reason I said it - is because I don't think men have to think or even are encouraged to think about their safety on a minute to minute basis the way women do.

And a lot of why I worry is because people say to me - "You shouldn't be walking in those woods, or after dark or in that park (whatever) alone." And usually it's a man who says that to me.
In England everyone (in the village) saw me walking all over the place every day by myself, and no one ever felt they had to warn me not to. That gave me some peace of mind that it would be safe.

David - Do you realize you gave me homework to do and in the next breath you're telling me you're skeptical of what I "feel"? How can you be skeptical of what someone else is telling you they feel? I know what I feel! Laughing Just kidding - but if I weren't so interested in the answer myself - I'd rebel by blowing off your assignment for that.

Hope you have a nice, FREE day.
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2008 05:28 am
That is not correct, Rebecca.

I said absolutely nothing about how u feel.
I did not as much as even hint at how u feel.

I did not address that subject,
nor did I even consider how u feel.

I expressed my skepticism
as to your greater safety in England relative
to your safety here. That does not relate to your feelilngs.

It relates to objective conditions in England.

David
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Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2008 07:54 am
nothing objective about your view of WWI i notice

I know it's all fun and games to you, mate - but do me
a big favour, David? Leave it out of your bull-****, will you?

thanks,
E
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2008 09:41 am
1. Please note that I am not married
and have no mate.

2. Where did I go wrong concerning the First World War ?

3. I like your Churchill quote.

4. I hope that u will spare us
any further scatological or excrementitious references.

David
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Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2008 10:29 am
I'm glad you like the Churchill quote - here's another - "A joke, is a serious thing."

and don't worry, i'm not staying
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aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2008 11:05 am
David - this whole thread is about how I feel: sick of reading of the violence here, sad that I can't feel safe to do what I want where I want, when I want and how I want- happy that I know there's somewhere else where I believe things are a little better.

There's nothing objective about it, except that I do think that my feelings are based in realistic and rational observations. I don't think I'm delusional or making any of this up.

I think you'll "get" this: I feel freer in England. That's it-exactly- in a nutshell. I feel free to do what I want, where I want, when and how I want without having to worry about my safety. I really, really do.

I feel less constricted in England, in almost every way. I think people are more able to see past their own views and needs and are committed to the idea that it's good to include or at least consider the views and needs of others there, more than they are here. I do think there is more of a committment to community there.

Even down to letting people be who they are. You know - you and I don't agree on a lot of issues - but I can say -"That's just David" because I know that you're a good person.
And you might say- "She's very mixed up in terms of her politics and lack of American spirit and patriotism- but that's just Rebecca" and we can still enjoy talking to each other.
I think that's kind of exceptional among Americans- don't you? But that's how it is as a rule in England. People just let you be who you are- eccentricity is celebrated.
Here people say, "Dang, that's weird," and wrinkle up their noses with distaste- and that's the end of that - no more chances for that person.

Anyway - I just remembered that I was really surprised (and a little mad) at some comments you made on one of your threads a while back. I can't remember what they were now - I just remember it was on a thread you started on Christmas day. That's the first time I said to myself, "That doesn't sound like something the David I know would say." You said it to Endy.
Not that you have to answer in any way to me, but I just want you to know that I think you guys would like each other if you met. I haven't met Endy- but I've met you and I think you should let Endy see the real you David. You know you're a nice guy- let him see that. Laughing
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2008 02:54 pm
Endymion wrote:
I'm glad you like the Churchill quote -
here's another - "A joke, is a serious thing."

and don't worry, i'm not staying

1. Most jokes are not serious; some have been.

2. It wud not occur to me to chase u away; that was not my intention.

3. WHERE DID I GO RONG, AS TO World War I ??

David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2008 04:58 pm
aidan wrote:
David - this whole thread is about how I feel:

I was not consciously aware of that.

I thought it was about violence.
It was my intention to address n describe facts of objective reality,
comparing n contrasting political geografy on either side of the Atlantic Ocean,
insofar as criminal violence is concerned.




Quote:
sick of reading of the violence here,

After u have returned to England,
u can freely choose to avoid reading articles about crime.
( I am under the impression that the English press
tends to avoid reporting on them anyway. )

Some Americans have opted to avoid reading the news.
( That wud not be my choice, as a general rule. )

Did u say something about ignorance being bliss, recently ?







Quote:
sad that I can't feel safe to do what I want where I want,
when I want and how I want-

Do u believe that American women in general
join u in that emotional state of mind ?
How about your mother in NJ ?
Your sisters ?
Female neighbors or co-workers ?

Tho, of course, I take u at your word,
I don 't recall my female acquaintances giving voice to that complaint.






Quote:
happy that I know there's somewhere else where I believe things are a little better.

Your prior posts have left no room for doubt
as to your fondness for England.
Accordingly, u certainly shud spend your life there
in an effort to fill your life with joy.

( The English accents get under my skin
and drive me nuts, after a while. )

I hold the English Jeremy Bentham in high esteem.






Quote:
There's nothing objective about it,
except that I do think that my feelings are based in realistic and rational observations.

Does that include the skyrocketing violent English crime ?
A recently retired English police officer, ( whose name I don 't remember )
of fairly hi rank, wrote complaining of being forced on-the-job
to employ deceptive means of gathering statistics
to conceal the upsurge in violent English felonies;
for instance: counting multiple felonies committed on several victims
at the same time and place, as ONE crime;
the police officer felt abused,
forced to prostitute himself into fraud
to make English gun prohibition look not as bad as reality indicated,
in terms of effecting more crime and more bloody English victims.




Quote:
I don't think I'm delusional or making any of this up.

That question has never arisen.





Quote:
I think you'll "get" this: I feel freer in England.

I feel that way about Las Vegas.
VIVA LAS VEGAS !





Quote:
That's it-exactly- in a nutshell.
I feel free to do what I want, where I want, when and how I want
without having to worry about my safety. I really, really do.

So stipulated, qua your feelings.
U might consider giving Las Vegas a shot, b4 u leave.




Quote:
I feel less constricted in England, in almost every way.

U told us about walking ( I prefer cabs );
does that apply to any other English activities ?





Quote:
I think people are more able to see past their own views and needs and are committed to the idea that it's good to include or at least consider the views and needs of others there, more than they are here. I do think there is more of a committment to community there.

I imagine that 's how Tony Blair got elected.





Quote:
Even down to letting people be who they are.

Well, that 's more individualistic,
as distinct from the communitarianism which u just extolled.







Quote:
You know - you and I don't agree on a lot of issues - but I can say -
"That's just David" because I know that you're a good person.
And you might say- "She's very mixed up in terms of her politics and lack
of American spirit and patriotism- but that's just Rebecca" and we can still enjoy talking to each other.

I think that's kind of exceptional among Americans- don't you?

I 've never considered that question b4.
The ideas that people hold shud be evaluated on their own merits,
regardless of WHO holds them
( except only in cases of reliance upon technical experts who have your confidence,
such as taking your M.D.'s advice on some medical problem,
inasmuch as u might not be able to judge it for yourself ).

As an American, I have always believed objective analysis to be logically necessary.



Quote:
But that's how it is as a rule in England.
People just let you be who you are- eccentricity is celebrated.

So if, in a more intense effort to feel even SAFER
than u already feel in England, u opt to carry a small .38 revolver
in your purse, during your English travels,
thay will CELEBRATE ?




Quote:
Here people say, "Dang, that's weird," and wrinkle up their noses with distaste-
and that's the end of that - no more chances for that person.

I have lived in NY for a long time.

I have never personally seen that happen,
and I freely discuss off-the-beaten-path topics all the time,
like ESP, return from death in hospitals, vertebrate paleontology,
cosmology and quantum mechanics
reconciled with Einstein's Relativity Theory in 11 dimensions, etc.




Quote:
Anyway - I just remembered that I was really surprised (and a little mad)

Do u get that from your Dad ?




Quote:
at some comments you made on one of your threads a while back.
I can't remember what they were now -

If u succeed in indentifying them,
it 'd be fun to analyse them for their merits or lack thereof.





Quote:
I just remember it was on a thread you started on Christmas day.

I hope that I was not unChristmasy



Quote:
That's the first time I said to myself,
"That doesn't sound like something the David I know would say."

Well, a zebra has more than one stripe.
( If he had only one stripe, wud that make him a skunk ? )

Possibly, it cud have been a misunderstanding,
or a factual disagreement. The paucity of specific information
disables analysis, until it is supplemented.




Quote:

You said it to Endy.
I just want you to know that I think you guys would like each other if you met.
I haven't met Endy- but I've met you and I think you should let Endy
see the real you David. You know you're a nice guy- let him see that. Laughing

Anything cud be possible.
I bear him no ill will.
I have no memory of any earlier contact.
It did not occur to me to chase him away.

Sometimes I can be surly.


David
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