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When Will Hillary Call it Quits?

 
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 09:09 pm
If it was, you wouldn't get it.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 10:11 pm
What Ebrown said.

Hillary still stands a chance, and will stand a chance at least until after Texas and Ohio voted, perhaps on until after Pennsylvania or even Indiana/North Carolina too.

Totally premature to say we already won (um, we Obama supporters I mean), let alone to suggest Hillary should just bow out already.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2008 10:43 pm
That said, I came across this item just now, and it does seem on-topic:

Quote:
Hillary Clinton will take the Democratic nomination even if she does not win the popular vote, but persuades enough superdelegates to vote for her at the convention, her campaign advisers say.

The New York senator, who lost three primaries Tuesday night, now lags slightly behind her rival, Illinois Senator Barack Obama, in the delegate count. She is even further behind in "pledged'' delegates, those assigned by virtue of primaries and caucuses.

But Clinton will not concede the race to Obama if he wins a greater number of pledged delegates by the end of the primary season, and will count on the 796 elected officials and party bigwigs to put her over the top, if necessary, said Clinton's communications director, Howard Wolfson.

"I want to be clear about the fact that neither campaign is in a position to win this nomination without the support of the votes of the superdelegates,'' Wolfson told reporters in a conference call.

"We don't make distinctions between delegates chosen by million of voters in a primary and those chosen between tens of thousands in caucuses,'' Wolfson said. "And we don't make distinctions when it comes to elected officials'' who vote as superdelegates at the convention.

"We are interested in acquiring delegates, period,'' he added.

Source
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 01:34 am
Miller wrote:
Yes, the Chicago Daily News did stop publication in 1978 and my post was to EOE, who at one time didn't know that at one time, there were 3 daily papers in Chicago.

Well, eoe didn't mention anything about daily newspapers in Chicago. In any event, at one time there were about six or seven daily newspapers in the city -- it just depends on what time period we're talking about.

Miller wrote:
It's important to study History.

I agree. You should try it some time.
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 07:28 am
My take is that Clinton is well ahead in the polls in Ohio and Texas and that will put her back into contention. If she loses one of those, it's probably over. Even winning them will not erase some of the large wins Obama has racked up unless she wins them by over 10%. Interesting editorial below (not pasted in it's entirety, but the link may stop working when the next editorial is posted.)

Can Mrs. Clinton Lose?

By PEGGY NOONAN
February 8, 2008; Page W14

If Hillary Clinton loses, does she know how to lose? What will that be, if she loses? Will she just say, "I concede" and go on vacation at a friend's house on an island, and then go back to the Senate and wait?

Is it possible she could be so normal? Politicians lose battles, it's part of what they do, win and lose. But she does not know how to lose. Can she lose with grace? But she does grace the way George W. Bush does nuance.

She often talks about how tough she is. She has fought "the Republican attack machine" that has tried to "stop" her, "end" her, and she knows "how to fight them." She is preoccupied to an unusual degree with toughness. A man so preoccupied would seem weak. But a woman obsessed with how tough she is just may be lethal.

Does her sense of toughness mean that every battle in which she engages must be fought tooth and claw, door to door? Can she recognize the line between burly combat and destructive, never-say-die warfare? I wonder if she is thinking: What will it mean if I win ugly? What if I lose ugly? What will be the implications for my future, the party's future? What will black America, having seen what we did in South Carolina, think forever of me and the party if I do low things to stop this guy on the way to victory? Can I stop, see the lay of the land, imitate grace, withdraw, wait, come back with a roar down the road? Life is long. I am not old. Or is that a reverie she could never have? What does it mean if she could never have it?

We know she is smart. Is she wise? If it comes to it, down the road, can she give a nice speech, thank her supporters, wish Barack Obama well, and vow to campaign for him?

It either gets very ugly now, or we will see unanticipated--and I suspect professionally saving--grace.

I ruminate in this way because something is happening. Mrs. Clinton is losing this thing. It's not one big primary, it's a rolling loss, a daily one, an inch-by-inch deflation. The trends and indices are not in her favor. She is having trouble raising big money, she's funding her campaign with her own wealth, her moral standing within her own party and among her own followers has been dragged down, and the legacy of Clintonism tarnished by what Bill Clinton did in South Carolina. Unfavorable primaries lie ahead. She doesn't have the excitement, the great whoosh of feeling that accompanies a winning campaign....
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 07:46 am
At least Mrs Clinton was always kind and considerate to her elderly mother. She's even allowed her mother to appear on stage with her, during her presidential bid.

As far as the other candidates...
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:29 am
Miller wrote:
At least Mrs Clinton was always kind and considerate to her elderly mother. She's even allowed her mother to appear on stage with her, during her presidential bid.

As far as the other candidates...


How do we really know it was her mother, or that she even has a mother?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:39 am
Miller wrote:
At least Mrs Clinton was always kind and considerate to her elderly mother. She's even allowed her mother to appear on stage with her, during her presidential bid.

As far as the other candidates...

Obama's mother died of cancer in 1995, so that might explain why she doesnt appear on stage with him.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:44 am
As for McCain's mother, there's a very entertaining portrait of her here -- she's quite the character it seems! Gotta love a woman like that Smile
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:52 am
I remember that, it was great. Sure makes him seem less old, too -- his MOTHER is fighting for him!
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 09:02 am
She might win or she might not, but it seems she is doing some strange things to get money for her campaign...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18958566

She has "rented" her donor lists to a junk mail firm.

Is she that hard up for money?
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eoe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 09:54 am
joefromchicago wrote:
Miller wrote:
Yes, the Chicago Daily News did stop publication in 1978 and my post was to EOE, who at one time didn't know that at one time, there were 3 daily papers in Chicago.

Well, eoe didn't mention anything about daily newspapers in Chicago. In any event, at one time there were about six or seven daily newspapers in the city -- it just depends on what time period we're talking about.

Miller wrote:
It's important to study History.

I agree. You should try it some time.


actually, remembering the thread, I was aware of 3 papers but could not remember the name of the third, during the time of which Miller speaks. And you're right Joe, considering that every neighborhood had a daily newspaper. The Southtown Economist comes to mind immediately. And don't forget the Defender, which had a city-wide circulation.


but...we digress.

I can't believe that Hillary is out of money. Where's Streisand?
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 10:15 am
mysteryman wrote:
She might win or she might not, but it seems she is doing some strange things to get money for her campaign...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18958566

She has "rented" her donor lists to a junk mail firm.

Is she that hard up for money?

But the funny part of that story was that she rented it out for 1% of its projected worth. I think they said she gave out her highly valued list for $800+ when a consultant in the industry said it was easily worth $100K.
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eoe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 12:03 pm
Renting for 800.00 instead of selling for 100k? hmmmm...there's got to be more to it. Remember, Hillary's no fool.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 12:04 pm
eoe wrote:
Renting for 800.00 instead of selling for 100k? hmmmm...there's got to be more to it. Remember, Hillary's no fool.


Sure there is - Bill had a stake in the company, and they flew on the corporate jet of the company a heck of a lot.

Cycloptichorn
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 12:27 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
eoe wrote:
Renting for 800.00 instead of selling for 100k? hmmmm...there's got to be more to it. Remember, Hillary's no fool.


Sure there is - Bill had a stake in the company, and they flew on the corporate jet of the company a heck of a lot.

Cycloptichorn

The gist of the story was that the Clinton's had some sort of deal going with the CEO of this company. The company has had President Clinton on the payroll to the tune of $3 million since he left office. It's worth listening to if you have five minutes and some headphones.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 01:06 pm
eoe wrote:
actually, remembering the thread, I was aware of 3 papers but could not remember the name of the third, during the time of which Miller speaks. And you're right Joe, considering that every neighborhood had a daily newspaper. The Southtown Economist comes to mind immediately. And don't forget the Defender, which had a city-wide circulation.

Chronological listing of selected daily newspapers in Chicago
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 04:19 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:


Sure there is - Bill had a stake in the company, and they flew on the corporate jet of the company a heck of a lot.

Cycloptichorn


Please provide a link...
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 07:06 am
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 07:58 am
It's shameless flip-flopping.

Friends told me the other day that if she pulls this off in Florida and manages to win the nomination, they will refuse to vote for her. They'll vote for McCain instead. Shocked
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