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Between a Rock and A Hard Place

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 01:06 pm
blatham wrote:
And your thesis is made all the stronger from noting that both authors were conservatives.


Actually, I don't have a clue what ideology of either author might be. Never thought about it. Nevertheless, I believe my analysis of the lessons to be learned is the correct one. You of course know that you are quite free to disagree as always.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 01:11 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
On the test EBeth and Phoenix took, I was right in the middle at the lower edge of the blue square (upper right).


Sorta between Clinton and Paul on the left/right axis, but slightly more toward libertarian than authoritarian?




(that would make sense to me)
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 01:25 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
On the test EBeth and Phoenix took, I was right in the middle at the lower edge of the blue square (upper right).


Sorta between Clinton and Paul on the left/right axis, but slightly more toward libertarian than authoritarian?




(that would make sense to me)


Again I'm not sure how it would look if there had been less biased and more accurate answers available for the questions. I do strongly question the placement of the people on the original grid however, as there is no way in heck that represents the reality for most of them based on their rhetoric or their votes. At least as these things are defined in the USA.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 01:32 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
At least as these things are defined in the USA.


ahh, your perception. As Phoenix so wisely noted.

~~~

It has been interesting to see people seeming to be uneasy finding that they're not as far off in one direction or another as they'd expected.

~~~

People outside of the U.S. often comment how tightly packed the candidates - and electorate - is, in the U.S.

From outside of the U.S., there seem to be fairly minor differences between the parties and the individual candidates - til you get into Kucinich territory.

~~~

Vote Kucinich.

Vote often.





(though the popular sentiment in my office (mostly Green and NDP voters) is that this is John McCain's primary and election to lose)
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 01:34 pm
McCain will be a major didaster... then again so will Obama...I have ceased to be concerned...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 01:36 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
At least as these things are defined in the USA.


ahh, your perception. As Phoenix so wisely noted.

~~~

It has been interesting to see people seeming to be uneasy finding that they're not as far off in one direction or another as they'd expected.

~~~

People outside of the U.S. often comment how tightly packed the candidates - and electorate - is, in the U.S.

From outside of the U.S., there seem to be fairly minor differences between the parties and the individual candidates - til you get into Kucinich territory.

~~~

Vote Kucinich.

Vote often.





(though the popular sentiment in my office (mostly Green and NDP voters) is that this is John McCain's primary and election to lose)


I have no real problem with my personal placement on the grid as I define those ideologies though I probably am ideologically more conservative that the placement if an opportunity for my answers to many of those questions had been provided. Fiscally I do agree with much of Ron Paul's positions, for instance, but when it comes to international trade and relations and in some social issues, we are worlds apart. I can't think of a whole lot of things that I agree with Hillary on at all. So there are other names on that grid that I am far closer to both fiscally and socially, and the results of the test do not reflect that.

I won't be voting for Congressman Kucinich. You can pretty well take that to the bank. Smile
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 01:55 pm
Not sure why that image past didn't work, but I'm three lines from the bottom and six over from the left side.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 02:10 pm
ehBeth wrote:

From outside of the U.S., there seem to be fairly minor differences between the parties and the individual candidates - til you get into Kucinich territory.

~~~

Vote Kucinich.

Vote often.



I actually ended up closes to Kucinich. I was surprised.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 02:45 pm
I found the test too wordy and some of them I had no answer for; I guess its over my head; I quit in the middle of it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 02:47 pm
revel wrote:
I found the test too wordy and some of them I had no answer for; I guess its over my head; I quit in the middle of it.


Happy to share my spot there.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 03:16 pm
Quote:
George Bailey valued everything that Conservatives value: home/family/tradition/charity/responsibility/obligation and the ability of humankind to overcome diversity.


I can see that conservatives feel they have to overcome "diversity" but
I wonder what "diversity" George Bailey had to overcome. Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 11:29 pm
parados wrote:
Quote:
George Bailey valued everything that Conservatives value: home/family/tradition/charity/responsibility/obligation and the ability of humankind to overcome diversity.


I can see that conservatives feel they have to overcome "diversity" but
I wonder what "diversity" George Bailey had to overcome. Twisted Evil


You've never seen the movie have you.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 11:35 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
parados wrote:
Quote:
George Bailey valued everything that Conservatives value: home/family/tradition/charity/responsibility/obligation and the ability of humankind to overcome diversity.


I can see that conservatives feel they have to overcome "diversity" but
I wonder what "diversity" George Bailey had to overcome. Twisted Evil


You've never seen the movie have you.


The correct word is "adversity".
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 12:32 am
HE HE! On the Political Compass, I'm right there with The Dalai Lama!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 12:48 am
Ah yes, the word is adversity. The spell checker doesn't catch stuff like that. My bad.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 02:57 am
Re: Between a Rock and A Hard Place
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Well, here I go again. Hillary is much too left wing for me, Obama even more so. It really frightens me to think what would happen if either of them became commander in chief. With either of those two, I think that the economy, which is rather moribund, will really go into the crapper.

I think that McCain needs to start thinking about playing golf at this point in his life, rather than running the country. To his credit, I think that he understands how important it is that terrorism is contained, but when it comes to the economy, fuggedaboudit! The fact that he even has to consider pandering to the nutjob biblebangers is a travesty.

I could have lived with Rudy, but he screwed up his campaign, big time.

What to do, what to do???

There seem to be a lot of members who are committed to one candidate or another. Is anyone around like me, who (again) is attempting to figure out who is "least worst"?


I have some mixed views of the Democratic candidates.

I really like Obama in general, and I especially like that Obama is not mean-spirited and divisive like the Clintons. But Obama's unbridled hatred of our Constitutional gun rights is chilling.

Hillary also is no friend of our Constitutional gun rights, but is not nearly as bad as Obama. I also tend to like the Clintons' views on foreign policy. But I really dislike their mean-spirited partisanship.

McCain I like in general. He's a good soldier and would be an excellent leader in our continuing fight against Islamic extremism.



I'm thinking my vote will depend on how the Supreme Court rules in Heller.

If I can be secure that the Supreme Court will defend my gun rights against Obama, then I'll be willing to vote for Obama if he is nominated. Otherwise I'll have to vote for McCain.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 09:34 am
Quote:
But Obama's unbridled hatred of our Constitutional gun rights is chilling.


Possibly less so if the student beside you has just exploded from a shotgun blast.

But, once again, aside from the war and weaponry lunacies to which you subscribe, I find your post tempered and fair.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 09:53 am
Here is a lovely bit from Adam Smith, 1776, from An Inquiry into the Nature And Causes of the Wealth of Nations (thanks to Glenn Greenwald).

Quote:
In great empires the people who live in the capital, and in the provinces remote from the scene of action, feel, many of them, scarce any inconveniency from the war; but enjoy, at their ease, the amusement of reading in the newspapers the exploits of their own fleets and armies . . . .

They are commonly dissatisfied with the return of peace, which puts an end to their amusement, and to a thousand visionary hopes of conquest and national glory from a longer continuance of the war.


Clearly, this astute description doesn't apply to McCain. But it does apply to all of those in the administration (other than Powell) and everyone in the neoconservative community and to the rightwing talkshow mad people along with the boys and girls at Fox.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 08:34 pm
Quote:
But Obama's unbridled hatred of our Constitutional gun rights is chilling.


This is an excerpt from the SF Chronicle's series of articles on where the candidates stand on issues. In the article about crime and the death penalty, this was written:

Quote:
On gun control, Obama answered the same 1996 Illinois questionnaire by endorsing a statewide ban on handguns. He soon disavowed that position, claiming that a staffer had filled out the survey in error, but he was still calling for a national ban on carrying handguns as a U.S. Senate candidate in 2004, according to a Chicago Tribune report.

In the Senate, however, Obama has taken a measured position similar to Clinton's, advocating what he calls common-sense restrictions on guns, including a restoration of the federal ban on assault weapons, while promising to protect hunters and crack down on illegal dealers.

Both candidates acknowledged the clout of the gun lobby at a debate in Nevada last month, when Clinton backed away from a 2000 campaign pledge to support a national registry of all handgun sales, and Obama agreed that the proposal would be politically impossible.



You'll find the article here:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/10/INU0UTBQK.DTL&type=politics
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 08:52 pm
The sad thing is that the admirers of these two candidates will 'forgive' wishy washiness in the name of political expediency demonstrated by their own hero or heroine while continuing to condemn any others for the same kinds of thing.

The fact is, none of them are going to be saints nor will they be impeccable in personal integrity no matter how much we want to make gods of them. The best we will be able to do it is to continue to play some kinds of silly 'whose is blackest' games in our effort to make our own guy/gal look better.
0 Replies
 
 

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